At 11:28 AM -0400 2005-02-16, Adrian Bye wrote:

We've previously had conversations about some Yahoo groups functionality which you said wasn't possible:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp

Indeed, we have.

Yesterday I contributed patches which enables Mailman to have this exact functionality which we borrowed from Yahoo Groups. Yet I've seen no response from you yet, and only one half dismissive response from another mailman developer.

I've been waiting to see what Barry, Tokio, or one of the other 

core developers think of these patches. Keep in mind that they are exceptionally busy people, and it may take a long time for them to be able to take a look at them.

I have not yet had a chance to look at them myself.  I've been 

focused on putting together my own little script to assist in the day-to-day site administration tasks for running a Mailman mailing list server, one of the few areas where I can see that Mailman can use improvement, and where my previous experience and limited scripting skills can be put to good use in helping to make this situation better. Well, at least better for me, and then contribute the patch to SourceForge so that others can take a look at it and see if it's useful for them. My hope is that this might be able to be incorporated into future versions of Mailman as well.

So, you take me to task for not having yet posted an exhaustive 

analysis of your patch, but I don't see a comment from you on my script. Can we call it even?

Mailman CAN be as good - and better - than Yahoo Groups. It doesn't have to take lots of money and resources. Just being willing to accept our code a piece at a time, and encouraging those who contribute will go a long way towards getting there.

You are right that Mailman can be better than Yahoo!Groups.  I 

don't think you're going to make Mailman better than Yahoo!Groups in every respect, at least not without spending a lot of money. But we can continue to take steps towards that goal.

That said, we do gladly accept contributions, but since this is a 

non-profit open source project which is maintained in what little spare time that people have, you have to accept that it may take a while for the contributions to be reviewed and analyzed by the appropriate people.

As for Tobias' contributions to Mailman, he has already given us 

quite a lot, and has a great deal more that has been done for his own site and which I believe he is happy to contribute to the project. I look forward to continuing to work with him in the future.

However, just because I've agreed to work with him in doing 

Mailman administration for his site and I will try to do what I can to help him get better integration between Mailman and an amazingly wide variety of other projects, and hopefully be able to bring this experience back to the Mailman project, that doesn't necessarily mean that I will always agree with him 100% -- either in private or public.

You should not make any assumptions about general attitudes 

towards all possible future contributions from the community or third parties, based on a single response.

In this particular matter, I was talking about the current 

capabilities of Mailman, not where we hope to ultimately be able to take it.

There may be some disagreement on the unsubscribe styff, but the header/footer handling only benefits everyone. I certainly hope that the mailman team will be responsive, and accept these patches and integrate them into the codebase. From my side we'll do whatever it takes to make that happen. Just tell us what we have to do.

That's great news!  However, we do ask that you give the core 

developers a little time to look over your contribution and make their analysis.

-- Brad Knowles, <brad@stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
 Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.