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Hi William,
The Mailman 3 branch is nearly ready for the next alpha release. I've
been working on some major structural changes that should make
development go much faster.
First, I've converted the installation infrastructure over to
zc.buildout. This is a easy to use, but powerful way to build and
deploy Mailman, and it helps manage dependencies in a transparent
way. Second, I've converted much, but not all, of the configuration
system over to lazr.config, which provides a nice way to stack ini-
style configurations. For now, you still have to manually edit
Defaults.py for some things, but I plan on finishing that conversion
after the next release.
The state of the branch is nearly functional on its own, minus the web
interface. This provides a nice platform for integrating MM3 with
external systems. I do plan on implementing the REST admin interface
next.
The one hang up currently is incoming mail. I think it would simplify
things if we shipped MM3 with LTMP support out of the box. William
has done a lot of work to improve the LMTP server in MM3 and I'd like
to go about integrating that into the main line.
There are a few problems with William's branch though: lp:~wilunix/ mailman/lmtp
First, it seems like the initial revision was not made from a branch
of the main line, but instead imported into revision 1. This makes it
much more difficult to suss out the differences in William's branch,
especially with tracking the changes to the main branch since then.
Second, there seems to be a bunch of extraneous files committed in
William's branch, such as log files and database files. These clearly
need to be removed before the branch can be merged.
William, please contact me off-list so that we can address these.
We'll also need to have a chat about FSF copyright assignments.
Finally, I would like to get input from MTA experts on this list as to
the best way to integrate the various MTAs with Mailman's LMTP
server. Specifically, I'm looking at fixing and improving bin/
genaliases for each of the MTAs. I've looked at Postfix's
documentation, but sadly to me it seems quite lacking as to best
recommendations. I know Exim and Sendmail support LTMP, but I don't
have as much experience with hooking them up.
If you have input on the best way to connect Mailman and an MTA via
LMTP, please add it to this page: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/LMTP+process
and follow up to this message.
Thanks and Happy New Year.
- -Barry
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- Barry Warsaw <barry@list.org>:
Finally, I would like to get input from MTA experts on this list as to
the best way to integrate the various MTAs with Mailman's LMTP server.
Specifically, I'm looking at fixing and improving bin/genaliases for each of the MTAs. I've looked at Postfix's documentation, but sadly to me it seems quite lacking as to best recommendations. I know Exim and Sendmail support LTMP, but I don't have as much experience with hooking them up.If you have input on the best way to connect Mailman and an MTA via
LMTP, please add it to this page: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/LMTP+process and follow up to this message.
I've added a draft for Postfix. There's the one or the other bit I'd like to add, but basically it should be okay.
p@rick
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On Jan 2, 2009, at 5:44 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
- Barry Warsaw <barry@list.org>:
Finally, I would like to get input from MTA experts on this list as
to the best way to integrate the various MTAs with Mailman's LMTP
server. Specifically, I'm looking at fixing and improving bin/genaliases
for each of the MTAs. I've looked at Postfix's documentation, but sadly to
me it seems quite lacking as to best recommendations. I know Exim and
Sendmail support LTMP, but I don't have as much experience with hooking them
up.If you have input on the best way to connect Mailman and an MTA via LMTP, please add it to this page: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/LMTP+process and follow up to this message.
I've added a draft for Postfix. There's the one or the other bit I'd
like to add, but basically it should be okay.
Thanks Patrick. I think there's one other configuration variable that
needs to be set. Please see the comment on the wiki page. I believe I
have this working now.
- -Barry
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- Barry Warsaw <barry@list.org>:
- Barry Warsaw <barry@list.org>:
Finally, I would like to get input from MTA experts on this list as to the best way to integrate the various MTAs with Mailman's LMTP server. Specifically, I'm looking at fixing and improving bin/genaliases for each of the MTAs. I've looked at Postfix's documentation, but sadly to me it seems quite lacking as to best recommendations. I know Exim and Sendmail support LTMP, but I don't have as much experience with hooking them up.
If you have input on the best way to connect Mailman and an MTA via LMTP, please add it to this page: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/LMTP+process and follow up to this message.
I've added a draft for Postfix. There's the one or the other bit I'd
like to add, but basically it should be okay.Thanks Patrick. I think there's one other configuration variable that needs to be set. Please see the comment on the wiki page. I believe I
have this working now.
Yes. I've added additional subsections. Your configuration example excludes local recipients listed in $alias_maps and /etc/passwd. On purpose?
p@rick
-- state of mind Agentur für Kommunikation, Design und Softwareentwicklung
Patrick Koetter Tel: 089 45227227 Echinger Strasse 3 Fax: 089 45227226 85386 Eching Web: http://www.state-of-mind.de
Amtsgericht München Partnerschaftsregister PR 563
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On Jan 04, 2009, at 12:00 AM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
- Barry Warsaw <barry@list.org>:
Thanks Patrick. I think there's one other configuration variable that needs to be set. Please see the comment on the wiki page. I believe I
have this working now.Yes. I've added additional subsections. Your configuration example excludes local recipients listed in $alias_maps and /etc/passwd. On purpose?
Nope, it's just the minimum of what I needed to get my test environment working. Thanks for the additional sections, they're perfect.
- -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
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- Barry Warsaw <barry@list.org>:
On Jan 04, 2009, at 12:00 AM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
- Barry Warsaw <barry@list.org>:
Thanks Patrick. I think there's one other configuration variable that needs to be set. Please see the comment on the wiki page. I believe I
have this working now.Yes. I've added additional subsections. Your configuration example excludes local recipients listed in $alias_maps and /etc/passwd. On purpose?
Nope, it's just the minimum of what I needed to get my test environment working. Thanks for the additional sections, they're perfect.
Thanks. Minor bug fix in the docco, though. Destination syntax for lmtp targets in the transport table requires a fourth parameter: service type.
I haven't had time to install and test the mm3 LMTP server, yet. Will the server accept TCP connections only or UNIX domains sockets as well? If it can do the latter too, I'd add a configuration example to the wiki.
p@rick
-- state of mind Agentur für Kommunikation, Design und Softwareentwicklung
Patrick Koetter Tel: 089 45227227 Echinger Strasse 3 Fax: 089 45227226 85386 Eching Web: http://www.state-of-mind.de
Amtsgericht München Partnerschaftsregister PR 563
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On Jan 05, 2009, at 12:58 AM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
Thanks. Minor bug fix in the docco, though. Destination syntax for lmtp targets in the transport table requires a fourth parameter: service type.
I'm not sure it requires it; I saw that in the Postfix documentation, but my current genaliases implementation doesn't write the 'inet' argument. It still seems to work. Better to be correct though, so I'll fix that.
I haven't had time to install and test the mm3 LMTP server, yet. Will the server accept TCP connections only or UNIX domains sockets as well? If it can do the latter too, I'd add a configuration example to the wiki.
Currently, the lmtp qrunner only listens to TCP connection (configurable, but localhost by default). I haven't looked in detail at William Mead's version though.
Another thing that's cool about LMTP delivery: it sure is fast. :)
- -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
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- Barry Warsaw <barry@list.org>:
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On Jan 05, 2009, at 12:58 AM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
Thanks. Minor bug fix in the docco, though. Destination syntax for lmtp targets in the transport table requires a fourth parameter: service type.
I'm not sure it requires it; I saw that in the Postfix documentation, but my current genaliases implementation doesn't write the 'inet' argument. It still seems to work. Better to be correct though, so I'll fix that.
Victor pointed it out on the Postfix mailing list. It's probably better to be on the precise side in this case. In case you want to do more reading, take a look at lmtp(8).
I haven't had time to install and test the mm3 LMTP server, yet. Will the server accept TCP connections only or UNIX domains sockets as well? If it can do the latter too, I'd add a configuration example to the wiki.
Currently, the lmtp qrunner only listens to TCP connection (configurable, but localhost by default). I haven't looked in detail at William Mead's version though.
Another thing that's cool about LMTP delivery: it sure is fast. :)
Definitely faster than the current pipe command. :)
p@rick
-- state of mind Agentur für Kommunikation, Design und Softwareentwicklung
Patrick Koetter Tel: 089 45227227 Echinger Strasse 3 Fax: 089 45227226 85386 Eching Web: http://www.state-of-mind.de
Amtsgericht München Partnerschaftsregister PR 563
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On Jan 4, 2009, at 7:29 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
- Barry Warsaw <barry@list.org>:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On Jan 05, 2009, at 12:58 AM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
Thanks. Minor bug fix in the docco, though. Destination syntax for
lmtp targets in the transport table requires a fourth parameter:
service type.I'm not sure it requires it; I saw that in the Postfix
documentation, but my current genaliases implementation doesn't write the 'inet'
argument. It still seems to work. Better to be correct though, so I'll fix that.Victor pointed it out on the Postfix mailing list. It's probably
better to be on the precise side in this case. In case you want to do more
reading, take a look at lmtp(8).
This is fixed in the 3.0 branch now.
- -Barry
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On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 12:06 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote:
Finally, I would like to get input from MTA experts on this list as to
the best way to integrate the various MTAs with Mailman's LMTP
server. Specifically, I'm looking at fixing and improving bin/ genaliases for each of the MTAs. I've looked at Postfix's
documentation, but sadly to me it seems quite lacking as to best
recommendations. I know Exim and Sendmail support LTMP, but I don't
have as much experience with hooking them up.
I use Exim's LMTP support over unix domain sockets, so I've added a few notes about it on the wiki page you mention.
With regards genaliases and exim, I'd imagine that most users are happy with the current genaliases output, as for non-lmtp connections it can be used directly, or simply the existence of a line can be tested.
I must confess, I don't use it at all, since Mailman runs on the same node as Exim, I check directly for the list's existence by looking for its directory, and use a generic transport that copes with the suffix.
Simon.
-- The Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute is operated by Genome Research Limited, a charity registered in England with number 1021457 and a company registered in England with number 2742969, whose registered office is 215 Euston Road, London, NW1 2BE.
--On 5 January 2009 10:09:53 +0000 Simon Fraser <srf@sanger.ac.uk> wrote:
On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 12:06 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote:
Finally, I would like to get input from MTA experts on this list as to the best way to integrate the various MTAs with Mailman's LMTP server. Specifically, I'm looking at fixing and improving bin/ genaliases for each of the MTAs. I've looked at Postfix's documentation, but sadly to me it seems quite lacking as to best recommendations. I know Exim and Sendmail support LTMP, but I don't have as much experience with hooking them up.
I use Exim's LMTP support over unix domain sockets, so I've added a few notes about it on the wiki page you mention.
With regards genaliases and exim, I'd imagine that most users are happy with the current genaliases output, as for non-lmtp connections it can be used directly, or simply the existence of a line can be tested.
I must confess, I don't use it at all, since Mailman runs on the same node as Exim, I check directly for the list's existence by looking for its directory, and use a generic transport that copes with the suffix.
But, with our improvements, you'll be able to use Exim's call forward feature, and determine not only whether the list exists, but also whether the sender is permitted to post to the list. If not, you can reject the email in Exim's ACL, and you don't need to generate a bounce message.
Simon.
-- Ian Eiloart IT Services, University of Sussex x3148
Hi,
William's internship has finished here, so I think I'd better pick up this thread - if that's OK with you, William. I'll mail you off list about your two questions.
I've added a note to the docs about Exim's callout features. They allow Exim to determine not only whether the list exists, but whether the list will accept mail from the current sender - before accepting the message for delivery. I'll fill in the details later.
--On 2 January 2009 12:06:56 -0500 Barry Warsaw <barry@list.org> wrote:
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Hi William,
The Mailman 3 branch is nearly ready for the next alpha release. I've been working on some major structural changes that should make development go much faster.
First, I've converted the installation infrastructure over to zc.buildout. This is a easy to use, but powerful way to build and deploy Mailman, and it helps manage dependencies in a transparent way. Second, I've converted much, but not all, of the configuration system over to lazr.config, which provides a nice way to stack ini-style configurations. For now, you still have to manually edit Defaults.py for some things, but I plan on finishing that conversion after the next release.
The state of the branch is nearly functional on its own, minus the web interface. This provides a nice platform for integrating MM3 with external systems. I do plan on implementing the REST admin interface next.
The one hang up currently is incoming mail. I think it would simplify things if we shipped MM3 with LTMP support out of the box. William has done a lot of work to improve the LMTP server in MM3 and I'd like to go about integrating that into the main line.
There are a few problems with William's branch though: lp:~wilunix/mailman/lmtp
First, it seems like the initial revision was not made from a branch of the main line, but instead imported into revision 1. This makes it much more difficult to suss out the differences in William's branch, especially with tracking the changes to the main branch since then. Second, there seems to be a bunch of extraneous files committed in William's branch, such as log files and database files. These clearly need to be removed before the branch can be merged.
William, please contact me off-list so that we can address these. We'll also need to have a chat about FSF copyright assignments.
Finally, I would like to get input from MTA experts on this list as to the best way to integrate the various MTAs with Mailman's LMTP server. Specifically, I'm looking at fixing and improving bin/genaliases for each of the MTAs. I've looked at Postfix's documentation, but sadly to me it seems quite lacking as to best recommendations. I know Exim and Sendmail support LTMP, but I don't have as much experience with hooking them up.
If you have input on the best way to connect Mailman and an MTA via LMTP, please add it to this page: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/LMTP+process and follow up to this message.
Thanks and Happy New Year.
- -Barry
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-- Ian Eiloart IT Services, University of Sussex x3148
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On Jan 5, 2009, at 6:03 AM, Ian Eiloart wrote:
I've added a note to the docs about Exim's callout features. They
allow Exim to determine not only whether the list exists, but
whether the list will accept mail from the current sender - before
accepting the message for delivery. I'll fill in the details later.
Thanks. I've added a NullMTA class that can be used for Exim, which
doesn't require an alias file write. You'd use it by adding this to
your .cfg file:
[mta] incoming: mailman.mta.null.NullMTA
- -Barry
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participants (4)
-
Barry Warsaw -
Ian Eiloart -
Patrick Ben Koetter -
Simon Fraser