I'm just starting to get my head above water, so I hope I'll do some catching up to the various lists over the next few days.

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"DT" == Danny Terweij writes:

>> But I have try to contact anyone of then and didn't recieved >> any answer. DT> I did also many times contact the Dutch translator, but like DT> you .. no answers. DT> Maybe the Mailman crew can do an update to the translators and DT> if they not respond within a time then the translator must be DT> removed from the translation list. We just did this with the Spanish translations, albeit with the approval of the previous and next Spanish translator (I haven't updated the info yet though!). Please! If any translators for your language are unreachable and you want to take over, let me know. If I can't contact them, I will make you the champion. On a wider note, perhaps we're going about this all wrong and we should migrate to The Translation Project for management of the MM translations? I'm all ears for hearing about how to make your jobs easier. DT> I do not know how to translate, but i am now translate the DT> Mailman 2.1 EN templates to Dutch and also all the *.py code DT> translating all to Dutch. This is a hell of a job!! Yeah, I haven't shamed my Dutch coworkers Guido and Martijn into doing it yet. :) Or Thomas Wouters for that matter. :) Ok, is it a "hell of a job" because it's just a lot of work, or because there are real obstacles in your way that we can help improve? Note that there are several experienced translators on this list for other languages. Perhaps things are easier for them because they're Emacs users and your not? I know Emacs has a translation mode (po-mode) that makes life a lot easier. DT> Why is Mailman developed such way? it was easyer to work with DT> language variables at the sourcecode of the *.py files. | Like files ; | /languages/language.en | /languages/language.nl | /languages/language.fr | /languages/language.default | Example: | language.en | mailinglist="Mailinglist" | archive="Archive" | language.nl | mailinglist="Mailinglijst" | achive="Achief" DT> And when there is a missing parameter then the DT> language.default entry is taken. But all the source code must DT> be rewritten for it.. so i do not think this will be done at DT> this way by developers. No, we have done things this way. I believe what you're suggesting is to use explicit message ids in the source code instead of implicitly using the English source text as the message id. Think catgets vs. gettext APIs. There are trade-offs to each approach, and neither is perfect. We decided to go the gettext route (i.e. implicit message ids) because it makes the source code much more readable, and it doesn't require us to provide an English catalog. Because translation services will fallback to the message id when it can't find a translation for a particular string, I suspect Mailman is much more useable when a language is only partly translated. Note that you don't have to do the entire translation before you submit stuff to me to be checked in! You can translate the templates separately from the message catalog. Or translate the catalog in bits and pieces, sending me updates when you have them ready. That way I can commit partial Dutch or Portuguese translations for use and testing by others, and we don't lose all your efforts if you drop off the face of the earth (like I've just done ;). So if you have translations in the works, feel free to send them to me. "Release early and often" applies here too. (well not /too/ often :). DT> I am not a linux user first degree, i am only use linux DT> because some software is just better than M$. I did not find DT> a mailinglist manager with a graphical web interface for DT> win32.... So is the problem that there aren't great translation tools for Windows or non-Emacs geeks? I wish I could help more here, but I'm not aware of any either. However, some of the work Stephan Richter has been doing on the recent Zope3 i18n project might (eventually) serve as a web based platform for translations. You might find this a useful resource as well: http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/contrib/po/HTML/ Cheers, -Barry

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"DT" == Danny Terweij writes:

>> Please! If any translators for your language are unreachable >> and you want to take over, let me know. If I can't contact >> them, I will make you the champion. DT> Well , like i said.. no reponse from the Dutch translator. I DT> have almost ready the /templates/*.* translations for the DT> 2.1b2. Thomas has been busy for a while, so if you want, we can make you the current Dutch champion. DT> They are in beta stage at my mailmansite. But all the web DT> pages looks ugly now :-) english and dutch mixed. The email DT> responders are almost completly dutch and my users and list DT> admins are very happy at this translation stage. Cool. I'll take whatever you've got. >> On a wider note, perhaps we're going about this all wrong and >> we should migrate to The Translation Project for management of >> the MM >> translations? I'm all ears for hearing about how to make your >> jobs easier. DT> Maybe a manual : How to create a *.po file :-) DT> ( i did read some i18n stuff but all was spaghetti for me). I'm going to create the Dutch infrastructure in cvs now, so if you do a cvs update, you'll get the basic framework. I'll copy messages/mailman.pot to messages/nl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po to get you started. Couldn't be easier, eh? :) DT> If some one can help me to explain how the *.po files are DT> generated then i wil give a try to translate the whole mailman DT> to Dutch.... Maybe this helps: The mailman linux machine is DT> just a RH7.2 and installed obly the text interface. I have DT> also linux RH7.3 installed on a other machine (dualboot) with DT> X and KDE desktop. I am going to look for Emacs, maybe i can DT> learn something :-) Ok. :) I'm not sure if your Emacs will come with po-mode.el, but if not, you'll need to either install the gettext package (which might have it) or grab the latest version from the Translation Project. >> So if you have translations in the works, feel free to send >> them to me. "Release early and often" applies here too. (well >> not /too/ often :). DT> Okay, when i finished the templates part.. i'll send it to you DT> (that is soon...). Great. >> DT> I am not a linux user first degree, i am only use linux DT> >> because some software is just better than M$. I did not find >> DT> a mailinglist manager with a graphical web interface for >> DT> win32.... >> So is the problem that there aren't great translation tools for >> Windows or non-Emacs geeks? I wish I could help more here, but >> I'm not aware of any either. However, some of the work Stephan >> Richter has been doing on the recent Zope3 i18n project might >> (eventually) serve as a web based platform for translations. DT> I am not talking about translation tools, i just using Windows DT> Notepad and a girlfriend ;-) I don't know if that has the same connotation in Dutch as it does in English, but I understand the smiley! DT> There also lot of translation tools for windows platform but DT> they are poor. But like i said, i am going to look at Emacs DT> on my RH73 installation. I did install all packages so it must DT> be installed by installation time. Of course, you can get both Emacs and XEmacs for Windows too, so you may not be constrained by OS. >> You might find this a useful resource as well: >> http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/contrib/po/HTML/ DT> Thank you, i'll check that site. DT> Thank you Barry, maybe i am the next dutch translator on the DT> list :-) I like Mailman . Excellent! It'll be fun to see Guido's reaction when we get Dutch support going. :) -Barry

"pickling" and "pickles" are Python-specific terms in this context. See http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-pickle.html for details. -Barry

Barry A. Warsaw dijo:

I'm just starting to get my head above water, so I hope I'll do some catching up to the various lists over the next few days.

:-)

We just did this with the Spanish translations, albeit with the approval of the previous and next Spanish translator (I haven't updated the info yet though!).

sorry, i'm confused. is not amaya rodrigo (barbwired) the current coordinator for the spanish translation?

Ok, is it a "hell of a job" because it's just a lot of work, or because there are real obstacles in your way that we can help improve? Note that there are several experienced translators on this list for other languages. Perhaps things are easier for them because they're Emacs users and your not? I know Emacs has a translation mode (po-mode) that makes life a lot easier.

So is the problem that there aren't great translation tools for Windows or non-Emacs geeks?

despite my simpathy for the fsf, i'm a vim guy and don't use emacs. i use a program called kbabel (http://i18n.kde.org/tools/kbabel/) to do translation work on my debian box.this tool is not available for ms windows, afaik. cheers, quique -- Hay 10 tipos de personas: las que entienden binario y las que no.

From: "Martin v. Löwis"

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Why is Mailman developed such way? it was easyer to work with language variables at the sourcecode of the *.py files.

It seems you suffer from some serious misunderstanding here. If you touch any .py file during translation, you are making a mistake.

Forget that.. I am now doing the translations on the right way :) Danny Terweij

On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

Can any of the current Portuguese translation team provide a status on the translation effort? Can Nickolas help out? Do you have any work (even if incomplete) to contribute? Do we need to hand over the championship of the Portuguese translation to someone else?

Hello, I have translated the templates files to Brazilian Portuguese and send it to Joao Sa, who was coodinating the effort. I dont know the current status of translation, I have no answers from him since then. The work with the files in the 'templates' directory are done, but I have not changed the po files. We can start from this point if you want. -- -- Aleck Zander aleck@unesp.br Universidade Estadual Paulista - Unesp Assessoria de Informatica - GRC