Hi, I'm looking for a french translation of MailMan v2.0.7. Do you have it ? Thanks, Pascal PELONI - Responsable technique de site Completel Hébergement - www.completel.fr M : +33 6 13 79 41 43 - T : +33 4 26 68 23 53 - F : +33 4 26 68 23 99
Pascal PELONI wrote:
Hi,
I'm looking for a french translation of MailMan v2.0.7.
Do you have it ?
Hi, there is no french translation of Mailman 2.0.7 (as far as I know). French is not supported until Mailman 2.1 comes out (hopefully in February this year). Maybe you could ask the french translator. He wrote this in his README: " Francisation de Mailman. Je vous invite à relire les catalogues et les templates qui sont écrites pour la plupart par un Francophone dont la langue maternelle n'est pas le français, qui plus est n'est ni doué en grammaire ni érudit. Si vous ne relisez rien et que vous y trouvez des fautes, ne grognez surtout pas, suggérez gentillement vos corrections, et elles seront apportées illico. Questions, suggestions: wilane@yahoo.com Ousmane Wilane <wilane@yahoo.com> " I don't read french, so I don't know if this text will help you, but maybe Ousmane can help you. :) -Daniel, norwegian translator.
@ Daniel Buchmann <db@bibsys.no> :
Hi, there is no french translation of Mailman 2.0.7 (as far as I know). French is not supported until Mailman 2.1 comes out (hopefully in February this year). Maybe you could ask the french translator.
Indeed there is a lot of work to be done on the French translation. There is a Mailman-FR list at http://listes.rezo.net/mailman/listinfo/mailman-fr -- Ousmane is leading the effort there. Unfortunately he is almost alone, and French is not his mother tongue. I would add that the translation process is a bit awkward. Aren't there tools such as online shared databases that can be used to coordinate translations? I can commit some translations and corrections once in a while, but the effort to do when you have to proofread and correct everything is way too high for the time I can spend on it. -- Fil
"F" == Fil <fil@rezo.net> writes:
F> I would add that the translation process is a bit F> awkward. Aren't there tools such as online shared databases F> that can be used to coordinate translations? I can commit some F> translations and corrections once in a while, but the effort to F> do when you have to proofread and correct everything is way too F> high for the time I can spend on it. I'm all ears for suggestions of ways I can make the translation process easier. I've been hoping we'd have more languages supported by now. Part of this is my fault -- while we're in alpha, I do sometimes change templates and translatable strings. But I'm trying to be judicious about that, and I'll get stricter once we go to beta. As far as translation tools, I'm not sure how much I can help, since I don't do any translations on a regular basis (typical monolingual American here ;). XEmacs tends to be my tool of choice for almost everything, and I know there are some facilities in Emacs/XEmacs for doing translations. Beyond that, I don't know. It's up to you translators to help me understand how to make your jobs easier. Maybe the GNU people have suggestions. Or the folks on i18n-sig@python.org. -Barry
@ Barry A. Warsaw <barry@zope.com> :
"F" == Fil <fil@rezo.net> writes:
F> I would add that the translation process is a bit F> awkward. Aren't there tools such as online shared databases F> that can be used to coordinate translations? I can commit some F> translations and corrections once in a while, but the effort to F> do when you have to proofread and correct everything is way too F> high for the time I can spend on it.
I'm all ears for suggestions of ways I can make the translation process easier. I've been hoping we'd have more languages supported by now. Part of this is my fault -- while we're in alpha, I do sometimes change templates and translatable strings. But I'm trying to be judicious about that, and I'll get stricter once we go to beta.
No! I think you should be as free as possible to modify anything. The key is not to be more stringent on your side, but to be more reactive on the translator's side. And it's something difficult because the flow of information on what's new/what sould be translated is not easy. So here's a suggestion/dream of what would be a reactive translation tool. * I'd like to see an online database, in which each item to be translated would be linked to all its translation in all "idioms" * of course each "idiom" is the metting point of a translators team (free name) and a "language" (iso representation) to allow multiple translations and splits. * Each idiom would then have a list of authorized commiters * Each new/modified item in the original idiom would be flagged as "not translated" in all idioms. Each team would then receive by email a list of what's new to do, for example when you insert new strings 7 and 8, idiom3 team would receive: 1) "Known spammer" http://translate.to/modify?idiom=3&string=7 2) "This is Great Software" http://translate.to/modify?idiom=3&string=8 and so on. * On the idiom3 home page, you'd have: - a list of "what's not been translated yet" - a tool to browse all items (and search by content in any idiom) - an open comment a translation/give a new translation/ that would result in suggestions being submitted to the commiters. - an export tool (that would give fresh .mo and .po files) * On the import side it must be automated from the CVS of the project? Then we'll get translation info circulating fast, corrections easy to make and overall i18n speed increase, I guess. That's not a project for Mailman, I guess, but something more general. I wonder why/if it does not exist yet? -- Fil
No! I think you should be as free as possible to modify anything. The key is not to be more stringent on your side, but to be more reactive on the translator's side. And it's something difficult because the flow of information on what's new/what sould be translated is not easy.
Could you please describe shortly how you are currently doing the translation. There are already excellent tools available, perhaps you just need to use them. For example, for PO files, I could not live without the emacs PO mode, and the ediff mode. Others prefer gtranslator or kbabyl for that; this is a matter of taste.
* I'd like to see an online database, in which each item to be translated would be linked to all its translation in all "idioms"
What's an "idiom", in this context?
* of course each "idiom" is the metting point of a translators team (free name) and a "language" (iso representation) to allow multiple translations and splits.
I cannot follow. What is a split?
* Each new/modified item in the original idiom would be flagged as "not translated" in all idioms. Each team would then receive by email a list of what's new to do, for example when you insert new strings 7 and 8, idiom3 team would receive:
Shipping po files automatically is certainly a thing that can be done easily. If you want, the Translation Project (TP), at http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/contrib/po/HTML/ can offer maintainance of the PO files. This would result in the following procedure: 1. Barry submits the PO template to the TP. 2. The TP robot merges it with all previous translations, and announces it to all teams; the assigned translator gets a copy of the merge result. 3. the assigned translator updates the PO file, and submits it to the TP robot. This archives the file, and forwards it to Barry for inclusion.
- a tool to browse all items (and search by content in any idiom) - an open comment a translation/give a new translation/ that would result in suggestions being submitted to the commiters.
Are you sure that this kind of collaborative work would actually simplify things? I'd expect that there will be no more than one active translator for each language, so offering collaborative work does not help.
Then we'll get translation info circulating fast, corrections easy to make and overall i18n speed increase, I guess. That's not a project for Mailman, I guess, but something more general. I wonder why/if it does not exist yet?
On the automatic distribution of catalogs, it exists; this is what the Translation Project does, for PO files, or the Debian translation project for HTML files. On the collaborative work part, this does not exist, IMHO, since nobody wants to use it. I'd suggest that you get in contact with your language team within the TP; maybe they can offer their experience. Regards, Martin
"F" == Fil <fil@rezo.net> writes:
F> Then we'll get translation info circulating fast, corrections F> easy to make and overall i18n speed increase, I guess. That's F> not a project for Mailman, I guess, but something more F> general. I wonder why/if it does not exist yet? It's a wonderful idea, and I agree it has utility beyond Mailman. I suspect it doesn't yet exist because sadly, the vast majority of free software isn't yet internationalized. I do believe that's changing so maybe there will be more of a push for better translation tools all up and down the tool chain. Hopefully someone with spare time will invent a tool like Fil describes! -Barry
Beyond that, I don't know. It's up to you translators to help me understand how to make your jobs easier. Maybe the GNU people have suggestions. Or the folks on i18n-sig@python.org.
For discussion on translating software in general, I'd like to suggest that people get in contact with their language team within the translation project, at http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/contrib/po/HTML/ Participants often have much experience with using tools for translation; they also have experience of how to translate terminology. For example, it is common that somebody asks for "the best" translation of some term on de@li.org, and several people suggest alternatives. HTH, Martin
participants (5)
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barry＠zope.com -
Daniel Buchmann -
Fil -
Martin von Loewis -
Pascal PELONI