Re: [Mailman-i18n] RTL (was: Re: Hebrew translation)
Cc also to mailman-i18n, since this is an i18n issue which will affect other languages we don't yet have. For example, if someone comes along later and wants to translate into another RTL language, this discussion will be in the archives. However, I would be keen to document RTL capability in the wiki, once we have it. :) On 25/04/2006, at 6:13 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
Barry, does Mailman support languages written from right to left (RTL) ?
To be honest, I don't know! We'll have to try it and then fix anything we find broken. It might be best to experiment on the 2.2 trunk first, but if the changes are minimal, then we can pull the Hebrew translation into the 2.1 branch.
What would be the best way to test if it exists, Barry? Do you want Tzipi to complete the whole mailman.po file first, then submit it so it can be tested in the interface? If so, would you have time to build Mailman with that file, and put it up online, so Tzipi can look at the interface and say if his strings are displaying correctly or not? (We could even do this earlier, with a partly-completed file.) We don't need to worry about the templates separately, since in trunk they're integrated into the mailman.po file. (Good news for current Mailman translators. ;) "Trunk" is the section of Mailman that will develop into an upcoming version: Mailman 2.2? This nomenclature is easier to remember if you think of all the energy going into growing the trunk of the tree, so it can produce strong new branches [versions]. ;) ) Tzipi, we will need the advice of at least one very experienced open- source Hebrew translator. Have you been in touch with Eli at the Translation Project yet? Please ask him for advice on any issues we may encounter in testing or adapting Mailman for RTL. This can save a lot of extra work, since I know myself that there are issues specific to each language, which the more experienced translators have already encountered, and about which they can offer very useful advice, and often specific workarounds. Tzipi, once you have read our Internationalization page and howto (the links I've already sent you) you can certainly start working on the mailman.po file (the interface file). We can't test anything until we have some Hebrew text in Mailman! :) *** However, there is one small change to the Howto: you need to download the Mailman 2.2, not the current branch (2.1.8). *** If you have any further questions or problems, after reading our current Internationalization documentation, please ask. :) from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nhóm Việt hóa phần mềm tự do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN
On Tue, 2006-04-25 at 11:36 +0930, Clytie Siddall wrote:
However, I would be keen to document RTL capability in the wiki, once we have it. :)
Definitely!
What would be the best way to test if it exists, Barry?
Do you want Tzipi to complete the whole mailman.po file first, then submit it so it can be tested in the interface?
I don't think an entire translation would be needed, but you could start with say, all messages in listinfo.py and the listinfo.html template. That would be enough to give us a sense for how well the web u/i handles RTL. You might also try some of the messages in admin.py, then take a look at that. I'd also suggest translating one or two of the command line scripts, then seeing how well those work. Follow that by some of the messages sent to users over email and you basically have coverage for the major touch points for RTL i18n.
If so, would you have time to build Mailman with that file, and put it up online, so Tzipi can look at the interface and say if his strings are displaying correctly or not? (We could even do this earlier, with a partly-completed file.)
Right now, I don't have a good place to expose the trunk publicly, but I'd be happy to do some screen captures.
We don't need to worry about the templates separately, since in trunk they're integrated into the mailman.po file. (Good news for current Mailman translators. ;) "Trunk" is the section of Mailman that will develop into an upcoming version: Mailman 2.2?
Yep. -Barry
Tzipi, I hope this is all making sense to you. :) Please ask if something is difficult to understand. We're giving you a lot of information all at once, so I will understand completely if you need to take it one piece at a time. Just ask for something to be explained, or for help with any task. :) On 25/04/2006, at 12:00 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
I don't think an entire translation would be needed, but you could start with say, all messages in listinfo.py and the listinfo.html template. That would be enough to give us a sense for how well the web u/i handles RTL. You might also try some of the messages in admin.py, then take a look at that.
I'd also suggest translating one or two of the command line scripts, then seeing how well those work. Follow that by some of the messages sent to users over email and you basically have coverage for the major touch points for RTL i18n.
This means, when you have read the Internationalization page and howto, and downloaded the Mailman 2.2 package, and created your directories, and have your own copy of mailman.po ready to translate, that in order to test Mailman's RTL support, you don't need to translate the whole file first. Each string in a .po file has an identification header. For example, the first string in the Mailman 2.2 mailman.po file is: #:Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py:122 msgid "size not available" msgstr "" The first line, starting with #. is the identification header of the string. It comes from a Python file (.py) named "HyperArch", and this string is line 122 in that file. What Barry is saying is, that for us to be able to test RTL support in Mailman, you only need to go through the mailman.po file and translate all the strings which have identification headers ending in: listinfo.py listinfo.html (one single, long string) admin.py plus one or two strings which are administrative scripts. They look like this (am I right, Barry? Or are the scripts different strings from this type?) : #:bin/config_list:117 msgid "" "# -*- python -*-\n" "# -*- coding: %(charset)s -*-\n" "## \"%(listname)s\" mailing list configuration settings\n" "## captured on %(when)s\n" msgstr "" and you simply copy the original string, then translate the parts that aren't %(placeholder)s and don't -*- look like this -*-. My translation for that string looks like this: #:bin/config_list:117 msgid "" "# -*- python -*-\n" "# -*- coding: %(charset)s -*-\n" "## \"%(listname)s\" mailing list configuration settings\n" "## captured on %(when)s\n" msgstr "# -*- python -*-\n" "# -*- coding: %(charset)s -*-\n" "## thiết lập cấu hình của hộp thư chung « %(listname)s »\n" "## bắt vào %(when)s\n" You must keep all the unusual characters in the original string, because they have their own jobs to do ... just like we do. ;) from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nhóm Việt hóa phần mềm tự do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN
On Tue, 2006-04-25 at 13:32 +0930, Clytie Siddall wrote:
This means, when you have read the Internationalization page and howto, and downloaded the Mailman 2.2 package, and created your directories, and have your own copy of mailman.po ready to translate, that in order to test Mailman's RTL support, you don't need to translate the whole file first.
Thanks for translating my message into Human. :)
plus one or two strings which are administrative scripts. They look like this (am I right, Barry? Or are the scripts different strings from this type?) :
Yep, although you might start with something simpler like list_lists. -Barry
On 02/05/2006, at 4:16 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
Thanks for translating my message into Human. :)
:D I've been practising! from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nhóm Việt hóa phần mềm tự do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN
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Clytie Siddall