Thank you, I wasn't aware of transcheck, I ran it and it pointed out and error in archtoc.html where it said there were "- Too few %(listname)s" I checked and I had a %(listname) only, adding the 's' it passed the transcheck test. But archtoch.html still isn't loading. I'm working with UTF-8 and not adding a BOM to the start of files if that makes a difference. Also I am modifing the files in the install directory (/usr/local/mailman/templates). I had assumed the 's' after %(listname) indicated a plural. If it is "%(listname)" only and not "%(listname)s" that gets substituted later this isn't an ideal way to handle pluralized words since the 's' would make sense only for a limited number of languages. Seperate %(listname) and %(listnames) messages could work more universally. thanks again, /Daniel