Mailman 3 November 2006 - Mailman-Users

text-only versus graphical
by Dr. Scott S. Jones Nov. 22, 2006

Nov. 22, 2006

I need to find out what others on the list use to produce graphical based newsletters. I have been mailing out lots of text only based letters to my lists and I get minimal response...what do some of you use to create graphical newsletters to mail out? Scott

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Stopping Posts to mailman List
by Raquel Nov. 21, 2006

Nov. 21, 2006

I have a spammer who's posting to mailman(a)domain.com. Obviously, the administration interface cannot be accessed for this list. How do I stop someone from posting to this list? Also, I can't get rid of the moderator requests for this list. Debian Sarge Sendmail 8.13.4 Mailman 2.1.5 -- Raquel ============================================================ Judgmentalism assumes that you have the right to change someone else. Well, you don't. You only have the right to choose how *you* will … [View More]

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undelivered mail, but only to some
by Peter Edley Nov. 21, 2006

Nov. 21, 2006

I found your post on the mailman users list about emails not getting sent to some users. Did you ever manage to solve this problem as i seem to be having exactly the problem. If you did manage to solve could you please email me and let me know how. Peter Edley

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request.pck does not match heldmsg-Listname files
by Ivan Fetch Nov. 21, 2006

Nov. 21, 2006

Hello, I've noticed heldmsg-ListName-* files in mailman/data, which the request.pck file for the given list isn't aware of (the pickle only has a version string). Is there something which others have used to iterate the request.pck file of all lists, and determine orphaned files in the mailman/data directory so they can be deleted? Thanks, Ivan Fetch.

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creating list defaults and filters?
by Tim Tyler Nov. 21, 2006

Nov. 21, 2006

Mailman users, I have two questions. We are running Mailman 2.1.5 on Redhat. 1. Is there a way when creating lists to have it automatically set certain fields with certain defaults such as Archives off, mail size limit 40k, etc.; instead of having to manually set them? 2. Is there a way to set a filter for a list such that all messages are automatically rejected or discarded if they don't have a particular subject header string such as [announce] in it? I see that one can accept [… [View More]

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Mailman Process Hanging
by Jared Griffith Nov. 21, 2006

Nov. 21, 2006

Hello everyone, I seem to be having an odd issue with Mailman. For some reason the daemon just stops running and will not send out any mail to the various lists that it is managing. There are no messages on the server, or messages generated by the mailman daemon, so I am a bit stumped to say the least. Here are the particulars on the system: Dual AMD Opteron server FreeBSD 6.0 Cyrus-Imap - 2.3.7 Postfix 2.4.20060930,3 python-2.4.3 py24-gdbm-2.4.3 mailman-2.1.9 Everything was working … [View More]

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9
by Patrick Bogen Nov. 21, 2006

Nov. 21, 2006

On 11/8/06, Brad Knowles <brad(a)shub-internet.org> wrote: > Of course, I actually used the FreeBSD port system to install Mailman > as opposed to installing from source, but the concept is the same. > And this is no guarantee that things will be this clean for you. The only added complication when installing from source is that you'd need to use the same './configure' arguments as you used before. -- - Patrick Bogen

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Upgrading from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9
by Ivan Fetch Nov. 21, 2006

Nov. 21, 2006

Hello, IT's (past) time to upgrade our mailman 2.1.5 installation to version 2.1.9. I'm wondering whether anyone has experience they'd like to share going directly from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9 -- anything to be aware of in terms of the upgrade process or user experiences (meaning list administrators and members)? Looking at the upgrade and news files, and searching the archives, the only thing I have found is some references to "versions 2.1.6 through 2.1.8 had issues, try 2.1.9". … [View More]

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Too many recipients
by Peter Nyamukusa Nov. 21, 2006

Nov. 21, 2006

Hi, How can I increase the number of recipients on my mailing list I am getting the following meaaseg below: Cause: Too many recipients to the message -- Peter Nyamukusa

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 33, Issue 44
by CHARLOTTE COLLINS Nov. 21, 2006

Nov. 21, 2006

I would like to know where auditions are posted. please, help! mailman-users-request(a)python.org wrote: Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to mailman-users(a)python.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to mailman-users-request(a)python.org You can reach the person managing the list at mailman-users-owner(a)python.org When replying, please edit … [View More]your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Approve subscription requests via mail (Barry Warsaw) 2. Re: text-only versus graphical (Patrick Bogen) 3. creating list defaults and filters? (Tim Tyler) 4. Re: text-only versus graphical (Brad Knowles) 5. Re: text-only versus graphical (Patrick Bogen) 6. Re: text-only versus graphical (Daevid Vincent) 7. Re: text-only versus graphical (Larry Stone) 8. Re: text-only versus graphical (LuKreme) 9. Re: text-only versus graphical (Daevid Vincent) 10. Re: text-only versus graphical (Daevid Vincent) From: Barry Warsaw <barry(a)python.org> CC: Georg Sauthoff <gsauthof(a)TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE>, mailman-users(a)python.org To: Brad Knowles <brad(a)shub-internet.org> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 08:18:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Approve subscription requests via mail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Nov 19, 2006, at 11:50 PM, Brad Knowles wrote: > At 5:02 PM -0500 11/19/06, Barry Warsaw wrote: > >> What he said! > > Sorry, guy. I wish there was a way to un-ring that bell. Can someone check to see just how badly broken our urls are? I'd start with the FAQ. Since many bugs that broke reproducibility have been fixed for a while, maybe we got lucky, at least with newer archive messages. If not, perhaps we should consider asking XS4ALL to restore the archive from backup? - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRWGrN3EjvBPtnXfVAQI3mQP/YmGic80v23+zumvpd0KnkRy4lSnS7g1M SRJDDNKm2JXHM0HEyaoeCbPtH7H/h/70tOBoSxv7oz0qC/St1OGE7VVAgG6bNCjP GLlmEPkSg6Rec2rfy4AO3WWaWOTSup2y87P1GfmULEI9OJYfQNGChcr7SfJAvx7g J9c9hPbY2ms= =Df0L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From: "Patrick Bogen" <pdbogen(a)gmail.com> CC: mailman-users(a)python.org To: "Dr. Scott S. Jones" <scott(a)fyrenice.com> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:23:59 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical Most of us don't, for a couple of reasons: Mailman's HTML support is fairly dumb, which means that the vast variation in MUAs make it difficult to craft HTML (and message structures that contain such) that will be presented in a regular way to the users. Mailman's primary purpose is as a discussion-oriented mailing list manager, not for distributing newsletters and/or announcements (though it is easily converted to this purpose). Lastly, for a lot of folk (or, at least, myself), HTML is a four-letter word when it comes to email. On 11/20/06, Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote: > I need to find out what others on the list use to produce graphical based > newsletters. I have been mailing out lots of text only based letters to my > lists and I get minimal response...what do some of you use to create > graphical newsletters to mail out? > > Scott > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users mailing list > Mailman-Users(a)python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com > > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp > -- - Patrick Bogen From: Tim Tyler <tyler(a)beloit.edu> To: mailman-users(a)python.org Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:58:44 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating list defaults and filters? Mailman users, I have two questions. We are running Mailman 2.1.5 on Redhat. 1. Is there a way when creating lists to have it automatically set certain fields with certain defaults such as Archives off, mail size limit 40k, etc.; instead of having to manually set them? 2. Is there a way to set a filter for a list such that all messages are automatically rejected or discarded if they don't have a particular subject header string such as [announce] in it? I see that one can accept [announce] in the filters, but how does one wild card reject all the rest? Also, I presume that order matters, correct? Tim Tyler Network Engineer - Beloit College tyler(a)beloit.edu From: Brad Knowles <brad(a)shub-internet.org> CC: mailman-users(a)python.org To: "Patrick Bogen" <pdbogen(a)gmail.com>, "Dr. Scott S. Jones" <scott(a)fyrenice.com> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:12:57 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical At 12:23 PM -0600 11/20/06, Patrick Bogen wrote: > Most of us don't, for a couple of reasons: > Mailman's HTML support is fairly dumb, which means that the vast > variation in MUAs make it difficult to craft HTML (and message > structures that contain such) that will be presented in a regular way > to the users. Mailman will transmit whatever you send, and you can configure it to avoid munging your HTML. The problem is that most MUAs have limited ability to properly interpret HTML, and most programs for creating HTML output have wildly different ideas of how that content should be interpreted by the other end. In this kind of environment, there's relatively little that Mailman can do. > Mailman's primary purpose is as a discussion-oriented mailing list > manager, not for distributing newsletters and/or announcements (though > it is easily converted to this purpose). True. > Lastly, for a lot of folk (or, at least, myself), HTML is a > four-letter word when it comes to email. Yeah, HTML e-mail is pretty evil. -- Brad Knowles, Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006. If you have an old e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that with the current address. From: "Patrick Bogen" <pdbogen(a)gmail.com> CC: mailman-users(a)python.org To: "Brad Knowles" <brad(a)shub-internet.org> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:17:55 -0600 Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical On 11/20/06, Brad Knowles wrote: > At 12:23 PM -0600 11/20/06, Patrick Bogen wrote: > > > Most of us don't, for a couple of reasons: > > Mailman's HTML support is fairly dumb, which means that the vast > > variation in MUAs make it difficult to craft HTML (and message > > structures that contain such) that will be presented in a regular way > > to the users. > > Mailman will transmit whatever you send, and you can configure it to > avoid munging your HTML. The problem is that most MUAs have limited > ability to properly interpret HTML, and most programs for creating > HTML output have wildly different ideas of how that content should be > interpreted by the other end. > > In this kind of environment, there's relatively little that Mailman can do. > No judgement meant on Mailman for this. I have at least a cursory understanding of the issues. By 'dumb' I was referring to the amount/nature of processing that Mailman does on HTML, absolutely not the intelligence of the good folk that implemented such processing. :) -- - Patrick Bogen From: "Daevid Vincent" <daevid(a)daevid.com> To: <mailman-users(a)python.org> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:24:42 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical I don't know why everyone is all down on graphical HTML email. The way I see it, I would much prefer HTML if it's a newsletter or something. It's cleaner. Easier to read with formatting. Links aren't these huge URLs. And adds a certain amount of professionalism (assuming it looks good and isn't crappy circa 1988 looking). The only time HTML email is "evil" is when it's from an unknown source that is most likely a phisher, or it is coded so horribly that it's painful to read. If someone has joined a list, then that list should be trusted to some degree, along with the members of said list. I think this "plain-text" only mentality is antiquated and fostered from die-hard zealots who still use, nigh, prefer the command line over GUI tools which take most of the tedious guess-work and fat-fingering out of administration of a server. ...but that's just my opinion. DÆVID From: Larry Stone <lstone19(a)stonejongleux.com> To: mailman-users(a)python.org Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:30:38 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical On Mon, 20 Nov 2006, Daevid Vincent wrote: > I don't know why everyone is all down on graphical HTML email. > I think this "plain-text" only mentality is antiquated and fostered from > die-hard zealots who still use, nigh, prefer the command line over GUI tools > which take most of the tedious guess-work and fat-fingering out of > administration of a server. In my case, it comes from valuing speed and size over bells and whistles. HTML tends to be large and in every mail reader I've used, much slower to render than plain text. When I'm working through a backlog of 100 messages, I value speed. And from what I can see, the larger the message is and the slower it is to render, the less likely it is to be something I want to read since those are more often than not marketing messages trying to sell me something. -- Larry Stone lstone19(a)stonejongleux.com From: LuKreme <kremels(a)kreme.com> To: mailman-users(a)python.org Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:52:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical On 20-Nov-2006, at 15:24, Daevid Vincent wrote: > I don't know why everyone is all down on graphical HTML email. Because everyone thinks they are a grapahic designer and most people have the design sense of a 4yo ADHD kid. Not to mention turning a 10K newsletter into a 500K mess of HTML that is, frankly, unlikely to come through unscathed anyway. > I think this "plain-text" only mentality is antiquated and fostered > from > die-hard zealots who still use, nigh, prefer the command line over > GUI tools > which take most of the tedious guess-work and fat-fingering out of > administration of a server. Oh, there's certainly some of that. But that's not all of it. For example, I don't like having my mail window be the width of my screen, and the pane I read mail in is only about 600px wide. Most HTML-ized email assumes that I will be giving it at the very least 800px, and more like 1200px. This makes most HTML email immediately unreadable for me. I get some HTML email (AMC channel, BBCAmerica) but I usually just read the plain text alts because there's nothing in the HTML I care about. If I do care, I can view the html easily (and quite well, Apple's Mail.app does HTML better than any other MUA I've ever seen). The other big issue is I can zip through 50 emails in less than 50 seconds if it's all text. With HTML, the rendering alone will slow me down considerably (I often do this to scan a thread I think I am not likely to be interested in... just to see if anything pops up). -- You know, in a world in which Bush and Blair can be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, "for having dared to take the necessary decision to launch a war on Iraq without having the support of the UN" I find myself agreeing with Tom Lehrer: satire is dead. - Neil Gaiman From: "Daevid Vincent" <daevid(a)daevid.com> To: <mailman-users(a)python.org> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:54:31 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical > And from what I can see, the larger the message is and the > slower it is to > render, the less likely it is to be something I want to read > since those > are more often than not marketing messages trying to sell me > something. Agreed. However the statements were about users who have purposely subscribed to a list. And should that list send in HTML or plaintext. My point being that in that case, HTML is fine because the reader WANTS to read what you've sent them, and (at least in my opinion) prefers to have a nice page layout than just courier font text. Spammers. Phishers. Etc. those are another story entirely. This is why God invented procmailrc files... Sort your mail at the server into folders and you're winning half the battle. D.Vin From: "Daevid Vincent" <daevid(a)daevid.com> To: <mailman-users(a)python.org> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:57:15 -0800 Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] text-only versus graphical Furthermore, it's just basic common sense, that if you you're going to send your email in HTML, you had better be considerate of bandwidth, size, formatting, etc. Otherwise, you are risking loosing your audience. But the same could be said if the person typed in all capitals, and swore like a sailor using plain-text. DÆVID ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users(a)python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ [View Less]

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