Mailman 3 December 2023 - Mailman-Users

Upgrade instructions
by G. Armour Van Horn June 7, 2025

June 7, 2025

I have a couple of Mailman lists on a server happily running 2.1.9 but I am also a moderator on a very active list that's running on 2.1.12. I do not host this list, just volunteer because I have some experience with Mailman. That list has started to get some significant bounces due to the DMARC issue that isn't addressed in this older version. The host intends to upgrade so that we can address that but they report that they haven't been able to make archives searchable in their experimentation with 2.1.16. I don't know if that search function is part of the more recent versions of Pipermail or if they've installed something else. I'm nervous about attempting to upgrade, given the paucity of documentation for that, particularly the fact that it tells me to use the same configuration options I used for the current install and I haven't a clue what those might have been. If I could find some more robust upgrade docs I'd like to try the upgrade in case I could contribute anything to the problem with the large list. Today I had to clear the bounce flags on 47 members. Not all that hard, but tedious. Van -- ---------------------------------------------------------- Sign up now for Quotes of the Day, a handful of quotations on a theme delivered every morning. Enlightenment! Daily, for free! http://www.qotd.org/subscribe.html For photography, web design, hosting, and maintenance, visit Van's home page: http://www.domainvanhorn.com/van/ -----------------------------------------------------------

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Sharing PHP or Scripts to a list
by patricia traore Nov. 8, 2024

Nov. 8, 2024

Hi All, I hope that I'm asking in the right place. We have just created a developers discussion public list in our organization with over 47 subscribers. My question is, in case someone shares some php codes in his message, will that code affect the corresponding html page of that message, while browsing the archive of messages publicly from a web browser? Or will pipermail instead display the shared codes as plain text? Thanks, Patricia Traore Project Lead, Maniflex Ltd | maniflexa.com

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spamming
by Jim Dory Aug. 9, 2024

Aug. 9, 2024

I've got a new problem with my mailing list. I run a local announcements/trade list that should be of no interest to non-locals. I started seeing warnings from Yahoo about users marking messages as spam.. (I'm subscribed to Yahoo's Antispam Feedback. I never got other feedback loops from others - like Microsoft - to work). The messages that were being marked as spam by users were the confirmation emails sent by mailman to confirm a signup. To avoid having Yahoo shut down the list as spam (for its subscribers), I set the subscription to be approved by admin, so I could review who was trying to sign up. More and more now I'm seeing what appears to be spammers trying to subscribe, but I can't be sure. I'm seeing emails like: hirofeet0916(a)yahoo.co.jp (doesn't seem local) blvckpvlm(a)gmail.com (not many use user names such as that) fsafwcasgsadf2(a)gwqc.com (obviously not real - couldn't find domain with minimal searching) Plus some that could be local but how would I know. I could take off the "approval by admin" for subscription and just deal with anyone that is a problem afterward, but I do worry that they may be harvesting emails from subscribers, which are available in the reply-to headers. Don't know if there's anything I can do. Anyone else dealing with this? thanks. Jim

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Editing Mailman's text files
by Pete Bell May 8, 2024

May 8, 2024

Hi. I'm a new member of this group but have been running an email list with Mailman for a long time. I am now setting a list up again and want to give a "look and feel" to the list which has more branding of my user group as a whole, and less of a Mailman-feel. I seem to remember that besides editing the public HTML pages, it is possible to edit the text files which Mailman automatically sends out for certain needs (such as 'approve.txt', 'adminsubscribeack.txt', 'invite.txt', and so on). A. Is this still the case? B. If so, where can I find them? (in case they've changed from the ones I have from long ago). C. Where do they need putting, so that Mailman can use them again? It's important that I should tell you that Mailman on my webhosts servers is a "server-wide" installation, and I don't get to edit anything which other clients to their servers need. This would be only for my own use, and as such I need to know where these files go in my own webspace, and how to get Mailman to use them instead of the default ones. I should also say that I have done this before, so unless the facility to do this has been ditched in recent years, I *should* still be able to do it ! Does Mailman perhaps look for these files somewhere in my webspace (which I have to give a specific name), and if it doesn't find them it goes on to find its default versions of these files? Thanks in advance for your help. Pete Bell, UK

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Running two list with same email prefix
by Andrea Cappelli Feb. 27, 2024

Feb. 27, 2024

Hi all, I'm running a mail server with Debian Lenny, MTA is Postfix and i will use postfix-to-mailma.py script to run list I would set up Mailman for running mailing list with same email prefix on different domains, obvious with different list names For example we have ml.domain1.com and ml.domain2.net, i would like to have LISTADDRESS LISTNAME tech(a)ml.domain1.com tech-ml.domain1.com tech(a)ml.domain.2.net tech-ml.domain2.net In this way i can have the same address on differente domains and Mailman (my version is 2.1.11) can distinguish between lists because the list name is different. The list name will be also used to access web interface, so we have http://ml.domain1.com/mailman/admin/tech-ml.domain1.com http://ml.domain2.net/mailman/admin/tech-ml.domain2.net Is possible to accomplish this task? Any idea?

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Issues with a DMARC record leading to message being shunted
by Ralf Hildebrandt Dec. 23, 2023

Dec. 23, 2023

Hi! Recently a mail was not being distributed via our MM3 instance; I searched the logs and found: Dec 22 04:54:27 2023 (24) ACCEPT: <1d431542-b386-467b-8bf2-305f19ee7eb4(a)somenet.org> Dec 22 04:54:28 2023 (28) Uncaught runner exception: list index out of range Dec 22 04:54:28 2023 (28) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/python3.10/site-packages/mailman/core/runner.py", line 179, in _one_iteration self._process_one_file(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/lib/python3.10/site-packages/mailman/core/runner.py", line 272, in _process_one_file keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/lib/python3.10/site-packages/mailman/runners/pipeline.py", line 37, in _dispose process(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline) File "/usr/lib/python3.10/site-packages/mailman/core/pipelines.py", line 53, in process handler.process(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/lib/python3.10/site-packages/mailman/handlers/validate_authenticity.py", line 125, in process authenticate(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/lib/python3.10/site-packages/mailman/utilities/retry.py", line 44, in f_retry return f(*args, **kwargs) File "/usr/lib/python3.10/site-packages/mailman/handlers/validate_authenticity.py", line 93, in authenticate auth_result = authenticate_message( File "/usr/lib/python3.10/site-packages/authheaders/__init__.py", line 395, in authenticate_message dmarc_result = check_dmarc(msg, spf_result, dkim_result, dnsfunc=dnsfunc, psddmarc=psddmarc) File "/usr/lib/python3.10/site-packages/authheaders/__init__.py", line 343, in check_dmarc result, result_comment, from_domain, policy = dmarc_per_from(from_domain, spf_result, dkim_result, dnsfunc, psddmarc) File "/usr/lib/python3.10/site-packages/authheaders/__init__.py", line 90, in dmarc_per_from record, orgdomain = receiver_record(from_domain) File "/usr/lib/python3.10/site-packages/authheaders/dmarc_lookup.py", line 117, in receiver_record retval = lookup_receiver_record(hostSansDmarc, dnsfunc) File "/usr/lib/python3.10/site-packages/authheaders/dmarc_lookup.py", line 92, in lookup_receiver_record tags = answer_to_dict(str(result)) File "/usr/lib/python3.10/site-packages/authheaders/dmarc_lookup.py", line 42, in answer_to_dict retval = {t[0].strip().lower(): t[1].strip().lower() for t in rawTags} File "/usr/lib/python3.10/site-packages/authheaders/dmarc_lookup.py", line 42, in <dictcomp> retval = {t[0].strip().lower(): t[1].strip().lower() for t in rawTags} IndexError: list index out of range Dec 22 04:54:28 2023 (28) SHUNTING: 1703220868.1418982+b27f5db154375fcd2c418d467172e4aad0d3d57a So the message has been shunted, due to this error. Soemthing wit DMARC and tags. So I checked the DMARC record: The DMARC record for somenet.org is "v=DMARC1;p=none;pct=100;rua=mailto:postmaster@somenet.org;mailto:postmaster@somenet.org;ri=3600;fo=1;" which is syntactically incorrect. The extra ";mailto:postmaster@somenet.org" is wrong, I guess the tag "ruf=" is missing here! It should probably read "v=DMARC1;p=none;pct=100;rua=mailto:postmaster@somenet.org;ruf=mailto:postmaster@somenet.org;ri=3600;fo=1;" So, should mm3 somehow "catch" this error somehow? I wonder how a syntactically incorrect DMARC record should be handled at all (ignore? best effort?) -- Ralf Hildebrandt Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netz | Netzwerk-Administration Invalidenstraße 120/121 | D-10115 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 ralf.hildebrandt(a)charite.de https://www.charite.de

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Assistance Needed with Mailman Subscription Issue (Mailman 2.1)
by Thomas F. Holz Dec. 20, 2023

Dec. 20, 2023

Hello, First of all: Thanks for the insane amount of things I've learned just by reading along in the list here! We are currently using Mailman 2.1.23 on a FreeBSD server with Sendmail, managing approximately 24 mailing lists. These lists are strictly for internal use, not publicly accessible, with membership ranging from 20 to 300. Quite cute. To prevent self-subscription or any subscription requests via Mailman, we've undertaken the following steps: Set the "advertising flag" of all lists to 'no'. Removed most of the email aliases, retaining only: mlist.sample: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mlist.sample" mlist.sample-admin: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mlist.sample" mlist.sample-bounces: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mlist.sample" (And yes, we have also executed newaliases post these changes. ;-) ) Furthermore, we've removed the subscription section from the "listinfo" page by modifying the listinfo.html templates for all languages. This led to a noticeable decrease in subscription entries. However, we are still receiving some subscription requests, which is perplexing. I can find the addresses in question in the "vette" log file, but nowhere else: ... vette:Dec 20 06:02:14 2023 (96837) mlist.sample: held subscription request from taryxxxx(a)icloud.com vette:Dec 20 06:06:27 2023 (5909) other.mlist: held subscription request from taryxxxx(a)icloud.com ... These requests are puzzling as they seem to bypass our restrictions. I have searched through all server logs (I could imagine) and found no further mention of the addresses in question, nor any clues in the maillog nor corresponding entries in the httpd-access.log (for mailman pages). Could anyone provide insights or suggestions on where to look or what we missed? Thank you for your assistance. Thomas -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Be part of the change you want to see in this world.

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Re: spamming
by Richard Dec. 17, 2023

Dec. 17, 2023

Jim, You're getting solid advice - wish I had such insights (and wish such tools existed) way back when I got started running my own servers a bit over 25 years ago... A SMALL bit more: On Sat, 16 Dec 2023, Dmitri Maziuk wrote: ...snip... > I don't think centos existed back iptables didn't. ;) It didn't exist before iptables. > Firewalld is an attempt to add a "windows defender"-type UI to iptables, > it's a wrong tool for this job. FWIW, when firewalld first came out it was claimed it was going to replace IP Tables. But it was abysmal and it's still clunky with inconsistent command syntax that's absolutely confusing to a native English speaker and you just have to memorize the quirks or look up the syntax. ... However it's telling that I STILL have iptables on my systems AND firewalld - as default installation packages! ...I think the firewalld people gave up trying to replace iptables. But I'd never before heard that it was an attempt to add a "windows defender" UI to Linux... Hmmm... More substantively, I use Fail2Ban and have long done. I also use a set of firewall systemss (that we here call "servers") that are separate from my servers that run mailing lists and our mail server (Postfix). There are quite a few advantages to this. I hope they're fairly obvious. I agree that dropping the packets is the best bet. It's simple and painless. Beyond that, consider the following: Another simple technique is to install and configure Spam Assassin and have it catch your inbound messages before they go to any mailing list. You can have a listing of questionable accounts - because they're new - and it can bump their potential spam score because they're on that list. How to configure this is a little beyond the time I have available right now but it's not that hard, Spam Assassin has a list like this one, the docs are good and the people friendly. And lets not forget list moderation for newbies, too, though that takes human time to deal with it, so maybe you're not liking that option. I have concluded that captcha type systems are no longer viable as they once were, based both on my experience as a user of these where they can be infuriating (for example, I was once tasked with picking out the motorcycles and when it showed me mopeds, I didn't pick those and the experience was infuriating because there were genuine motorcycles in the images, too. So, that was an example of mistaken labeling, and who knows how Captcha got that one wrong (perhaps in India or southeast Asia they call mopeds motorcycles?! IDK. Not anywhere I've lived!). But anyway, I've also had issues as someone who has used Captcha on my systems (I no longer do). And it's only going to get worse. Let us recall that there's a built-in propaganda - "good advertising" - built in to the very name "Artificial intelligence." It gets you thinking there's a genuine intelligence there even if it is artificial. It's pertinent to point out that, well, that's wrong; there's no genuine intelligence present! "Smart" as those bots are, there's no genuine intelligence at work - not yet anyway - and they can be trained but don't learn; unless someone trains an AI engine specificaly for this task, it's unlikely we'll see really good bots for this purpose. So, a simple way to deal with these attacks is to provide a simple problem a human can, first, recognize is something they need to address to be successful, and secondly do instantly. Make it something that a very simple web-served script can automate for you. For example, it could post a simple math problem that's given in words and require a correct answer. Perhaps you state, "five times three is the simple key, just tell it to me!" A human will get it, a bot won't. (I have seen quite a handful of variants of this including a message made up of a few images, each of which has a part of it - whatever works!) If they're going to spend personal time cracking your system, at least it's costing them something one would presume is valuable to them - their personal time. One final thought; put em on a fake list first! Observe posting behavior! Analyze, let pass through the non-spam. Think of it as ... uh... pergatory I guess. Quarantine. You can perhaps automate then moving them to a real list. ...If I had your problem I'd be thinking of things like this. Best of luck, Richard.

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Re: spamming
by Dmitri Maziuk Dec. 17, 2023

Dec. 17, 2023

On 12/16/23 11:46, Richard wrote: > > On Sat, 16 Dec 2023, Dmitri Maziuk wrote: > >> Firewalld is an attempt to add a "windows defender"-type UI to >> iptables, it's a wrong tool for this job. > > ... But I'd never > before heard that it was an attempt to add a "windows defender" UI to > Linux... Hmmm... > Well... that was sloppy wording on my part. ObThreadDrift: the kernel packet filtering framework is netfilter. The "canonical" UI tools are iptables in 2.4 series kernels and nftables in 3.x series. RedHat's firewalld and ubuntu's ufw both try to provide a "more user-friendlier" front-ends to xxtables. AFAIK ufw only tries to provide the simple-stupid rule syntax. Firewalld, OTOH, hooks into D-Bus, potentially allowing applications manipulate firewall rules automagically. I.e. a deamon could signal that it bind()/listen()'s and firewalld will pick that from D-Bus and respond by adding a corresp. accept rule to netfilter. That is basically how windows firewall does it. Brought to you by No Nits Left Unpicked(tm) Dima

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List migration Mailman 2.1 to a new server - cannot clarify how to import user subscription attributes settings
by daniel.botting＠codethink.co.uk Dec. 12, 2023

Dec. 12, 2023

Hi all, I am currently in the process of testing the migration of our Mailman2.1 instance to a new server, I've migrated the below for a list: - list configuraiton - archives - user membership, Mass Subscription page via a file upload (member address) I've used the below scripts to export/view this information: - https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/mailman-subscribers.py - https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/user_options However after much reading docs/web searches I've not been able to confirm how to import for each user their subscription attributes settings on the Membership List page: - mod - hide - nomail - ack - not metoo - nodupes - digest - plain Any guidance would be appreciated. Many thanks Daniel

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