Marc MERLIN <marc_news@vasoftware.com> wrote:
Pointing out repeatetly that you are "owed" that credit is the _last_ thing you should be doing, you will only discredit yourself, and I'm afraid to say that RMS has done a fine job of that.
For Richard Stallman's response to this criticism, see e.g. http://norbert.ch/free-software.html#credit
Arguing about forcing people to give credit, when it's debatable since *many* other people and projects deserve credit too, is lame, especially on this list where it's clearly off topic.
Absolutely.
But I didn't "argue about forcing people to give credit". I answered a question (about the availablily of Mailman for operating systems that are "user friendly" to "morons") and in my answer I had to explain what "GNU" (as in "GNU Mailman") has to do with "Linux", how else would the questioner understand what my answer has to do with the question!
So I mentioned something like that "Linux (kernel) + GNU (in this context meaning the GNU system, i.e. a certain well-defined collection of software ) gives a complete OS which should properly be called GNU/Linux".
If (as you say) whatever you're running as OS on your machines contains only a few GNU packages, then I think that there's nothing wrong when you call it with a name that doesn't mention GNU.
But I didn't refer to whatever you may be running on your machines. I was referring to what the GNU project is doing.
Surely you won't deny that the GNU project (I'm a GNU maintainer, although in an area not directly related to Mailman) has the right to say "when what we're doing is combined with the Linux kernel, then the result should properly be called GNU/Linux." (Whether or not this has something to do with whatever you're running on your machines, that _in_my_opinion_ is best decided by you and by you alone :-)
BTW even if someone uses just the GNU system plus the kernel named Linux and no other packages, no-one is forcing people to give credit to GNU. You have the right to use any name for our system. And you have every right to create a variant and call it e.g. LING for "Linux Is Not GNU" :-)
Denying a reasonable request for credit is IMO ethically a bad thing to do, but there's nothing in the GNU General Public License (or anywhere else) that would try to _force_ people to give credit to the GNU project.
BTW, you never ask for credit, you get it or you don't. Sometimes you deserve it and don't get it. Such is life.
Yes.
And still, sometimes it makes sense to ask for credit.
Asking for credit may make us look bad in your eyes, but the overall effect in relation to achieving the goals of the GNU project is still positive, that's why the GNU project has a policy of asking for credit.
(NOTE: This is probably my last posting on this topic for a very long time... I'm not much of an advocate :-)
Greetings, Norbert.
-- A founder of the http://DotGNU.org project and Steering Committee member Norbert Bollow, Weidlistr.18, CH-8624 Gruet (near Zurich, Switzerland) Tel +41 1 972 20 59 Fax +41 1 972 20 69 http://norbert.ch List hosting with GNU Mailman on your own domain name http://cisto.com