On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 14:56 -0400, Brian Carpenter wrote:
On 9/17/20 2:27 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 14:15 -0400, Brian Carpenter wrote: Absolutely not. I'm intrigued by the idea of mailman-core (1/3 of mm3) with a lightweight web-based GUI in front of it. But, to date, that doesn't exist. I also don't see the need for a db and api with a MLM, but I do see value in those things.
No just a need for a 15 year out-dated user interface and a MLM that requires an EOL version of Python. Otherwise Mailman 3 can behave in the same manner as Mailman 2. The installation of Mailman 3 takes an hour. That includes OS, web server, database, MTA and python 3. All of the complexity you continue to gripe about is, to use your word, fud.
The age of a product shouldn't determine it's usefulness. Is Mark less useful because of his age? WTF dude?
I don't get how you are a champion of mm3 being a simple install. You do realize this list's archive is full of your problems with mm3, right? That, and you had to replace 2/3 of mm3 to get what you wanted? How is that easy, and how is that done in 1 hour?
That's just FUD. Don't take offense because I haven't taken you up on your mm3 work around(s). I have mm3 installs, but they are not what my users want.
There it is again. A use of a word meant to imply something negative. Affinity and Empathy are not "workarounds". They are modern interfaces that I developed because I host MANY list owners with all kinds of requirements. I also wanted something to set apart myself from other potential competitors. I am still using Postorius and Hyperkitty to for Mailman 3 hosting clients. They are still fine to work with.
So your users don't want to use a MLM that works just like Mailman 2? Mailman 3 can just be that but the potential to be more is there, a potential that Mailman 2 does not have.
Again, you're the guy who had to pay someone else to make 2/3rds of Mailman 3 work for you.
Again a disingenuous remark. You pull the same bs with Stephen all the time. Mailman 3 works fine apart from Affinity/Empathy. I accomplished a bold marketing and brand move with those two applications. You wouldn't understand that.
I do understand it, it's just that your business doesn't matter one way or the other to me. I get the sense that you might think we are MLM competitors, we're not. You have a MLM business, I just host a few lists for others at my expense.
I am no longer on the same playing field with budget hosts. I have set my company apart from them. Why because Mailman 3 gave me the ability to do that. Mailman 2 did not.
My "custom scripts" are cron+bash scripts to send monthly mailman reports out to admins. Hardly anything that can't be re-worked anywhere else, but why?
Then why bring them up as a reason to not use MM3?
They were a bullet point in a list of bullet points, nothing more.
Please let Simon know I can install Mailman 3 and migrate his list to Mailman 3 within a day. I won't be your salesman.
Yet you have been in the past. Jimmy, did I offend you???
In the past I simply sent someone to you because they came to me asking to pay me to do a mm3 migration. I told them I was no fan, but that you were. I don't get your "Jimmy" comment, but whatever dude.
I hope you one day see how ridiculous that sounds as an elevator pitch.
Not anymore ridiculous as your proposals to work harder to keep an EOL MLM application alive when its replacement is alive and well.
I'm curious, do you get a new car every year when the dealership replaces last year's model?
-Jim P.