Hi Richard,
Here is what I know so far, mail for most list members seem to be going through for the most part. About two weeks ago MM mass unscribed about 300 folx. Now we seem to have stablized the members but the owners of the lists are getting routinely bounced. Yahoo email address do not have a problem, aol is a major headache as is hotmail. What is happening on my side is that the sub notices are never reaching the owners, so they are bouncing like mad and eventually hit the excessive bounce phase after five days (since we have the settings set to set to nomail after 5 bounces and mailman set to send notifcations once a day).
I have been monitoring this list and the cpanel forums (http://forums.cpanel.net) to see if this issue is resolved. I have tried several of the fixes they had on there to no avail. Although they have set out a new fix http://forums.cpanel.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12740&highlight=mail man for the qrunner eating up cpu, but I haven't tried it yet. I am basically trying to find bits and pieces and make them into a whole that will fix my problems.
this is clipped and pasted from a final bounce message I am getting from MM. Since I don't really know how to read bounces I am not sure if the issue is on my side, their side or somewhere in the middle. Please note that the email that bounced on the sub notice is getting all its mail from just regular list mail.
Hope this helps! Back to the quest!
Chris
This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:
List: Vegas
Member: WCDancer@aol.com
Action: Subscription disabled.
Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces.The triggering bounce notice is attached below.
Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at mailman@domain.com
From: "Mail Delivery System" <Mailer-Daemon@alpha.domain1.com> To: mailman-bounces@alpha.domain2.com Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:02:13 -0700
This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:
WCDancer@isp.com SMTP error from remote mailer after MAIL FROM:<mailman-bounces@alpha.domain2.com>: host mailin-01.mx.aol.com [152.163.224.26]: 550 REQUESTED ACTION NOT TAKEN: DNS FAILURE mcknz@isp.com SMTP error from remote mailer after MAIL FROM:<mailman-bounces@alpha.domain.com> SIZE=2643: host nymx-2.nyroc.rr.com [24.92.226.164]: 553 5.1.8 <mailman-bounces@alpha.domain.com>... Domain of sender address mailman-bounces@alpha.domain.com does not exist
------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers.
Return-path: <mailman-bounces@alpha.domain2.com> Received: from alpha.domain2.com ([127.0.0.1]) by alpha.domain2.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19h9UO-0006jA-VB; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:00:40 -0700 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=alpha.domain2.com) by alpha.domain.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19h9U7-0006h2-MD for Finewine-owner@bdomain2.com; Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:00:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: 3 Finewine moderator request(s) waiting From: Finewine-bounces@domain2.com To: Finewine-owner@domain2.com Message-ID: <mailman.11.1059404401.25640.finewine_domain2.com@domain2.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:00:01 -0700 Precedence: bulk X-BeenThere: Finewine@domain.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 List-Id: X-List-Administrivia: yes Sender: mailman-bounces@alpha.domain.com Errors-To: mailman-bounces@alpha.domain.com
The Finewine@domain.com mailing list has 3 request(s) waiting for your consideration at:
Please attend to this at your earliest convenience. This notice of pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.
Pending subscriptions: funnygirlster@isp.com (Sue) Sat Jul 19 17:23:45 2003 dpoday@isp.com (deborah) Thu Jul 24 22:38:08 2003 pupigrl1@isp.com (Jen) Sun Jul 27 04:36:20 2003
-----Original Message----- From: Richard Barrett [mailto:r.barrett@openinfo.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 7:30 PM To: Christine De La Rosa Cc: 'Mailman' Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Analysis of reasons for bounce responses
Chris
On Friday, August 1, 2003, at 12:48 am, Christine De La Rosa wrote:
This is the EXACT problem I am having with mailman, using cpanel and exim. I, however, am on a dedicated box and have root access. I have
been working on this problem for over three weeks. I am tired and frustrated and wishing I knew a little more about mailman and its inner workings.
As I said in my post, this bounce issue is not, in my view, at heart a
bug in Mailman. The evidence I saw of bounce notices from local MTA
(Exim) say that the MTA is having problems getting outgoing mail off
the system and finally bouncing it back to Mailman when it fails to do
so.
If you are getting final bounce notices from Mailman when it disables a
subscriber because of these problems what is the reason reported in the
bounce message from the MTA, which should be attached to the bottom of
the final bounce notification from MM? In the example final bounce
notice passed to me for comment the MTA was reporting it was having an
IP routing problem; that is hardly a Mailman generated problem as far
as I can tell.
One of my problems with looking at this is I am trying to help out a
fairly new user with a problem I have not seen on my systems, while I
have no access to the Mailman or MTA logs on a system experiencing the
problem. I have no standing with the CPanel owners to raise matters
with them in case they are contributing to the problem with the way
they set things up. Deeply frustrating.
Let me know if you gain any insight or information related to this.
I come from a majordomo background. When I got this dedicated server,
it had mailman pre-installed so I thought kewl I will use it instead.
It ran fabulously until cpanel did their last upgrade. I have been in hell since then.
I wish I could help you, but I have not been able to figure out even from the logs what the issues are. Granted, looking at the logs are like gobbledigook to me. So I have spent a lot of time searching the archives for this problem. Although, I haven't been able to find anyone with my specific issue. I can tell you that qrunner has been consuming my cpu at astonishing rates.
Mailman can consume large amounts of CPU when the MTA it is trying to
hand mail over to repeatedly returns temporary failures. MM can be too
aggressive in repeatedly trying to get the MTA to either accept or
permanently fail the handover. There are changes in the Mailman CVS to
moderate MM's efforts in this respect but so far as I know those
changes are not available as a patch for MM 2.1.2 stable. This issue
may be affecting you but I am no expert myself in setting up Exim so as
to avoid this undesirable interaction; I do not see it with my Sendmail
setup. There have been posts to mailman-users on the topic of high CPU
utilisation. This one fromJon Carnes relates to Postfix MTA but its
substance/recommendations may be applicable to Exim:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/msg17786.html
But there is no rhyme or reason to that, that I can see. If I find anything out I will post it here.
Chris
-----Original Message----- From: mailman-users-bounces+chris=christinedelarosa.com@python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+chris=christinedelarosa.com@python.org] On Behalf Of Richard Barrett Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 5:08 AM To: Mailman Subject: [Mailman-Users] Analysis of reasons for bounce responses
This is not my problem but one soemone approached me about off list. I'll summarise their situation and I would appreciate any thoughts, comments, sanity checking on my analysis.
Situation:
List admin's domain is hosted by a server run by a hosting company.
The server is (probably) running Linux
Mailman 2.1.2 is provided on the server with, I believe, CPanel
The server's MTA appears to be Exim 4.20 handling both incoming and outgoing messages to/from Mailman
Mailman list's basically work OK much of the time
Periodically messages out from Mailman are being bounced en masse leading to the subscriber accounts being disabled
The bounce response attached to the bounce action notice produced by
Mailman when subscribers are disabled in these circumstances is from the server local MTA. The MTA lists what appears to be all the addresses to which the outgoing message was sent with a note against each saying "unrouteable mail domain maildomain.tld". The bounce response asserts that this is a permanent failure. The messages are each being sent to a number of different mail domains not just a single
one
The list admin with the problem has no access to either the Mailman or MTA logs
The server administrator is supposedly claiming that these bounces are a result of "a bug in Mailman for which no patch is available"
My analysis is:
The problem is not obviously due to any bug in Mailman
The problem is more likely due to an IP routing problem which periodically afflicts the server and its ability to reach the MTAs for the mail domains addressed by the outgoing messages
The MTA is accepting the outgoing messages from Mailman and then finding it has problems of its own in delivering mail which are unrelated to Mailman as the origin of the messages
But I have to concede I know nothing about Exim 4.20. I know even less about CPanel.
Any thoughts or anatomically feasible suggestions welcome.
Richard Barrett http://www.openinfo.co.uk