At 1:05 PM -0700 2004-09-30, Frank Torres wrote:

Based on <somelist> I scan the aliases file for majordomo stuff then If I do not find nothing go to mailman and see if list is in mailman. I really do not want to do different domains if at all possible. I should be able to use the same domain. All using the most friendly mta's ever built sendmail<grin>

I don't know of any reason why this wouldn't work.  All MTAs I 

know of can handle multiple aliases files, and you should be able to specify the search order.

What problems are you having?

-- Brad Knowles, brad@stop.mail-abuse.org

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
 Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info.

At 3:57 PM -0700 2004-09-30, Frank Torres wrote:

                                                                Ok,

as per Brad Knowles I am not using aliases for mailman but mm-handler and an sendmail.m4 with adding an mailer called Mmmhandler,..... as per the mailman documentation.

Looking at the latest version of the README.SENDMAIL file at 

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/README.SENDMAIL?rev=2.5.2.1&view=markup, I see that this feature was contributed by David Champion.

Howerver in the F=<snip> I added the 'A' flag to do alias expansion but mailman seems to still fire off. I really need to use the mm-handler I need to move away from have sudo access as root and my time being sucked into mail list management it sucks.

Looking at the latest version of the mm-handler.readme file at 

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/contrib/mm-handler.readme?rev=1.1&view=markup, I see the following text:

	How do you know whether mm-handler is appropriate for you?
	Let's look at some examples. If you're running lists off your
	primary DNS domain name, you probably have a mix of lists and
	users in your namespace. Take python.org, for example: it
	hosts Mailman lists, and it hosts users' personal accounts.
	There aren't a whole bunch of either, but the ratio is
	probably fairly near 1:1. Mm-handler is not very useful here,
	because there's no simple way to separate user addresses from
	list addresses -- not to mention that mm-handler is written in
	perl, so that's just bad form.


The implication is that mixing Mailman-hosted mailing lists with 

much of anything else is a bad idea. Such as mixing Mailman and Majordomo lists on the same domain.

Try setting up dedicated domains for the Mailman versus Majordomo 

lists, and handling those via sendmail virtual domains, and I imagine that should work.

Of course, that's exactly what you said you didn't want to do, 

but unless you're willing to fiddle around with aliases files (or use the sendmail version of the postfix auto-alias generation script at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037514.html), I don't see any other alternative.

-- Brad Knowles, brad@stop.mail-abuse.org

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
 Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info.

Well, I thought I would contribute what I have done to get majordomo and mailman running on the same host. This all done with sendmail 8.13.1+ version so use those sendmail books if you have an older/newer version of sendmail. Add the following flags to mm-handler under sendmail: Add these to the flags of the mm-handler line. (/) is probably not necessary I just have not tried it with out. (A) forces alias lookups. (:) is for (:include:) part of majordomo which is not the default no more or least not in 8.13.1+. (|) is necessary because majordomo uses pipes/forks process off to majordomo.

I am very pleased that I do not need to edit the mm-handler even though I had started. This will now allow me to cleanly migrate my customer off of majordomo to mailman.

My thanks to everybody that helped

Best Regards, Frank T. On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 00:24, Richard Barrett wrote:

Why not consider modifying the mm-handler Perl script. It currently
knows how to deliver to Mailman lists and knows what Mailman lists
there are by looking up Mailman file structures on disk (see line 203
onwards of the code) and then running the Mailman delivery wrapper. I
do not user majordomo, but presumably an equivalent piece of code to
confirm and deliver to majordomo's lists could be fashioned and added.

btw: do beware the existing latent defect of the mm-handlers failure to
properly check the return code when it call close on the pipe being
used to do the delivery, which can lead to silently lost/undelivered
messages - see next sentence for a hint at what needs to be done. Also
consider that mm-handler's home grown bounce generator can be
substituted by simply having it return the appropriate exit status to
sendmail, which will then generate the bounce message in it normal way.
You could also consider switching to a Python equivalent of mm-handler
without the defect. See:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php? func=detail&aid=644810&group_id=103&atid=300103

On 30 Sep 2004, at 23:57, Frank Torres wrote:

...

Maybe I'll get this right really tired at analyzing sendmail crap. Ok, as per Brad Knowles I am not using aliases for mailman but mm-handler and an sendmail.m4 with adding an mailer called Mmmhandler,..... as per the mailman documentation. Howerver in the F=<snip> I added the 'A'
flag to do alias expansion but mailman seems to still fire off. I really
need to use the mm-handler I need to move away from have sudo access as root and my time being sucked into mail list management it sucks.

Best Regards, Frank Torres On Thu, 2004-09-30 at 13:05, Frank Torres wrote:

...

Sorry, I'll be a little clearer this time here is what I am trying to do. Please let me know if this is possible. <somelist>@my.domain

Based on <somelist> I scan the aliases file for majordomo stuff then
If I do not find nothing go to mailman and see if list is in mailman. I really do not want to do different domains if at all possible. I
should be able to use the same domain. All using the most friendly mta's ever built sendmail<grin>

Best Regards, Frank Torres

On Thu, 2004-09-30 at 12:25, Frank Torres wrote:

...

Queston, I have been unsuccessful at getting mailman and majordomo to run on the same host. I am using sendmail and the mailman mm-handler. Mailman is working great its just that majordomo is not. I did put an 'A' in the mailer table for alias expansion but that does not seem to work completely.

If some body has done this and can share this info that would be
great. I have been scouring the web to no avail. I need to transition
majordomo out but I can not do it abruptly.

Best Regards, Frank

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