Hello,
I sent my first mailingfew days ago to an important number of subscribers : about 200 000 (!).
However, i wonder if the distribution has been complete...
Indeed 72 hours after the mailing, i continue to see permanently about 500 messages in the queue of my messaging server (i have a linux centOS VPS with Qmail). But what is strange is that actually some of those messages were really distributed : I am sure because I got return receipt emails for them !
So i am confused on the total distribution of my mailing to all subscribers : is there a possibility so see the number of messages processed or not yet processed directly from the server (logs...) ?
THANKS A LOT :-) Regis.
On 05/24/2015 03:17 AM, Regis wrote:
However, i wonder if the distribution has been complete...
Indeed 72 hours after the mailing, i continue to see permanently about 500 messages in the queue of my messaging server (i have a linux centOS VPS with Qmail).
First of all, your question is a Qmail question, not a Mailman question.
From the Mailman standpoint, when you see a message like
May 25 03:40:03 2015 (14302) <message_id smtp to list_name for nnnn recips, completed in ttt.ttt seconds
In Mailman's 'smtp' log, Mailman has finished delivery of all messages to Qmail. If there were any issues with delivery from Mailman to Qmail, they will be logged in Mailman's 'smtp-failure' log.
But what is strange is that actually some of those messages were really distributed : I am sure because I got return receipt emails for them !
So i am confused on the total distribution of my mailing to all subscribers : is there a possibility so see the number of messages processed or not yet processed directly from the server (logs...) ?
Again, this is a Qmail question. What I suspect you're seeing is a result of Mailman delivering non-VERPed, non-personalized messages in chunks of up to SMTP_MAX_RCPTS recipients per SMTP transaction and Qmail experiencing retryable errors on some of the recipients in the chunk and delivering others.
But ask someone who knows Qmail if you want a definitive answer.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Regis writes:
Indeed 72 hours after the mailing, i continue to see permanently about 500 messages in the queue of my messaging server (i have a linux centOS VPS with Qmail).
Using Qmail is asking for trouble. Dan Bernstein is unquestionably a genius, but his software tends to assume that the world is a saner place than it actually is, and doesn't work and play well with others. I'll assume that you have perfectly good reasons for using Qmail rather than Exim or Postfix that are more commonly used with Mailman, but you should be aware that most of the folks on this list are experienced with Exim, Postfix, and/or Sendmail, and for Qmail-specific issues, or interactions between Qmail and Mailman, you probably need to go to a Qmail channel.
First question: *which queue*? Mailman has its queues, which you can examine using ls on the queue directory or mailman/bin/show_qfiles on the individual queued messages. Qmail also has its own queue(s), and if the messages are in the Qmail queues, *it's very unlikely to be a Mailman-related problem*. By design, once a mail server has accepted a message, the mail server is fully responsible for its deliver, or for reporting non-delivery.
But what is strange is that actually some of those messages were really distributed : I am sure because I got return receipt emails for them !
You've cross checked the Message-IDs? What do you mean by "return receipt"? Are you sure they are not "bounce" messages, which indicate that mailwas *not* delivered?
So i am confused on the total distribution of my mailing to all subscribers : is there a possibility so see the number of messages processed or not yet processed directly from the server (logs...) ?
I don't know about where Centos keeps Mailman's logs and queues, but yes, you can look at the logs and queues once you find them. The "post" log tells you what posts Mailman has received, but not their disposition. The "smtp" log tells you what messages have been sent (by message-id and time, and how long it took to process the smtp transaction), but due to the nature of the outgoing runner, there are typically many log messages for each post. Mark may have a script for summing them up to find out how many have actually been delivered.
I'm not sure exactly what goes into the smtp-failure log, but I would suppose that would record cases where qmail tells mailman that it can't deliver the message for some reason. I'm not sure if it records tempfails, and for tempfails there's no way for qmail to tell mailman about retries whether they succeed or fail.
For the qfiles, most likely you just care about if they're there in "outgoing" or "retry". You might also look in the "shunt" queue directory for "broken" messages that Mailman can't process.
On 05/25/2015 08:46 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Regis writes:
But what is strange is that actually some of those messages were really distributed : I am sure because I got return receipt emails for them !
You've cross checked the Message-IDs? What do you mean by "return receipt"? Are you sure they are not "bounce" messages, which indicate that mailwas *not* delivered?
I overlooked this in my earlier reply. If you mean that in your post you have requested to be notified when the recipient reads the message, Mailman makes some effort to remove all such requests from message headers before sending the message, so any DSN you received is more likely a bounce, but you shouldn't be seeing those either as they should be delivered to the Mailman's bounce processing.
Regis, I would like to see how you are requesting a return receipt. Please send me <mark@msapiro.net> a message using the same mail client you used to post to the list and requesting a return receipt.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
On 5/25/2015 9:54 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
I overlooked this in my earlier reply. If you mean that in your post you have requested to be notified when the recipient reads the message, Mailman makes some effort to remove all such requests from message headers before sending the message, so any DSN you received is more likely a bounce, but you shouldn't be seeing those either as they should be delivered to the Mailman's bounce processing.
And some people will routinely discard or dismiss those requests, too. Return receipt is not a reliable way to tell if someone has read the message unless all of the recipients are willing and they actually get the request.
z!
Hello,
Thanks for your great answer.
I'll assume that you have perfectly good reasons for using Qmail rather than Exim or Postfix that are more commonly used with Mailman,
Actually... no ! That's why I have now set Postfix as messaging server on my VPS from Plesk ;-)
First question: *which queue*? Mailman has its queues, which you can examine using ls on the queue directory or mailman/bin/show_qfiles on the individual queued messages. Qmail also has its own queue(s), and if the messages are in the Qmail queues, *it's very unlikely to be a Mailman-related problem*. By design, once a mail server has accepted a message, the mail server is fully responsible for its deliver, or for reporting non-delivery.
It was the Qmail queue, which is visible in Plesk.
You've cross checked the Message-IDs? What do you mean by "return receipt"? Are you sure they are not "bounce" messages, which indicate that mailwas *not* delivered?
No. It was automatic responses from the messages recipients.
I don't know about where Centos keeps Mailman's logs and queues, [...] For the qfiles, most likely you just care about if they're there in "outgoing" or "retry". You might also look in the "shunt" queue directory for "broken" messages that Mailman can't process.
I had a look to all these logs but difficult to see which messages where sent or not... it doesn't matter i will send a new mailing in few weeks and i hope it will work better with Postfix ;-)
Thanks again. Regis.
-------- Message original -------- Sujet : [Mailman-Users] How to know if all messages were distributed De : Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen@xemacs.org> Pour : regis92130@gmail.com Copie à : mailman-users@python.org Date : Tue, 26 May 2015 00:46:33 +0900
Regis writes:
Indeed 72 hours after the mailing, i continue to see permanently about 500 messages in the queue of my messaging server (i have a linux centOS VPS with Qmail).
Using Qmail is asking for trouble. Dan Bernstein is unquestionably a genius, but his software tends to assume that the world is a saner place than it actually is, and doesn't work and play well with others. I'll assume that you have perfectly good reasons for using Qmail rather than Exim or Postfix that are more commonly used with Mailman, but you should be aware that most of the folks on this list are experienced with Exim, Postfix, and/or Sendmail, and for Qmail-specific issues, or interactions between Qmail and Mailman, you probably need to go to a Qmail channel.
First question: *which queue*? Mailman has its queues, which you can examine using ls on the queue directory or mailman/bin/show_qfiles on the individual queued messages. Qmail also has its own queue(s), and if the messages are in the Qmail queues, *it's very unlikely to be a Mailman-related problem*. By design, once a mail server has accepted a message, the mail server is fully responsible for its deliver, or for reporting non-delivery.
But what is strange is that actually some of those messages were really distributed : I am sure because I got return receipt emails for them !
You've cross checked the Message-IDs? What do you mean by "return receipt"? Are you sure they are not "bounce" messages, which indicate that mailwas *not* delivered?
So i am confused on the total distribution of my mailing to all subscribers : is there a possibility so see the number of messages processed or not yet processed directly from the server (logs...) ?
I don't know about where Centos keeps Mailman's logs and queues, but yes, you can look at the logs and queues once you find them. The "post" log tells you what posts Mailman has received, but not their disposition. The "smtp" log tells you what messages have been sent (by message-id and time, and how long it took to process the smtp transaction), but due to the nature of the outgoing runner, there are typically many log messages for each post. Mark may have a script for summing them up to find out how many have actually been delivered.
I'm not sure exactly what goes into the smtp-failure log, but I would suppose that would record cases where qmail tells mailman that it can't deliver the message for some reason. I'm not sure if it records tempfails, and for tempfails there's no way for qmail to tell mailman about retries whether they succeed or fail.
For the qfiles, most likely you just care about if they're there in "outgoing" or "retry". You might also look in the "shunt" queue directory for "broken" messages that Mailman can't process.
participants (4)
-
Carl Zwanzig -
Mark Sapiro -
Regis -
Stephen J. Turnbull