Unexpected Listname When Creating New List
(Mailman 2.1.9 Fedora 5)
newlist --help says:
"Note that listnames are forced to lowercase".
That doesn't seem to be true.
I just ran
bin/newlist testbut my listinfo web page shows this as "Test". It also shows up as "Test" in the General Options web page.
If I look at the "Details for real name" information, it says:
"Email addresses are not case sensitive..."
I learned in Email 101 that this is not true on the left side of "@" signs. Was my teacher playing a cruel joke on me? In any case, I can change "Test" to "test" and all appears well.
What's a mother to do?
Cordially,
Jon Forrest forrest@ce.berkeley.edu Computer Resources Manager Civil and Environmental Engineering Dept. 305 Davis Hall Univ. of Calif., Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720-1710 510-642-0904
Jon Forrest wrote:
newlist --help says:
"Note that listnames are forced to lowercase".
That doesn't seem to be true.
The confusion is there are two list names. The internal list name which is the name of the list's sub-directory in Mailman's lists/ directory, and the name which is used in URLs referencing the list is lower case.
The real_name attribute on the list's General Options page may be mixed case, but must be the same as the internal name except for case. A newly created list will be given an initial real_name = to the all lower case internal name except the first character will be Upper case if it's a letter. This name is used in some messages and on the listinfo page.
I just ran
bin/newlist test
but my listinfo web page shows this as "Test". It also shows up as "Test" in the General Options web page.
If I look at the "Details for real name" information, it says:
"Email addresses are not case sensitive..."
I learned in Email 101 that this is not true on the left side of "@" signs. Was my teacher playing a cruel joke on me? In any case, I can change "Test" to "test" and all appears well.
Or you can leave it as "Test" or make it "TEST" if you like.
You are correct. Local parts of email addresses (left of the @) are interpreted only by local mail delivery and may be case sensitive although they usually aren't. If *your* MTA is case sensitive, then your list's real_name should be all lower case to match the internal name, but most likely, you can capitalize it any way you want to make it pretty.
-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mark Sapiro wrote:
A newly created list will be given an initial real_name = to the all lower case internal name except the first character will be Upper case if it's a letter. This name is used in some messages and on the listinfo page.
I'm wondering what the reasoning for this is. If somebody wants "Test" they'd create the list that way, I would think.
You are correct. Local parts of email addresses (left of the @) are interpreted only by local mail delivery and may be case sensitive although they usually aren't. If *your* MTA is case sensitive, then your list's real_name should be all lower case to match the internal name, but most likely, you can capitalize it any way you want to make it pretty.
What got me worried was the signature in messages that come from my list.
It said:
-------------------
Test mailing list
Test@mailman.example.comSo, given that my MTA (Postfix) is case sensitive, if somebody replied to the email address on the last line of the signature, the message would bounce.
Sure, I can use the web interface to change this, which I did, but I'm still not understanding why both the internal and the other name aren't the same by default, since this is likely the more common case.
As always, thanks for your thoughtful replies, Jon
Jon Forrest wrote:
What got me worried was the signature in messages that come from my list.
It said:
Test mailing list Test@mailman.example.com
So, given that my MTA (Postfix) is case sensitive, if somebody replied to the email address on the last line of the signature, the message would bounce.
Are you sure your postfix aliases for Mailman are case sensitive. I doubt it. Try mailing to test@mailman.example.com and Test@mailman.example.com. I suspect both messages will get posted to the list.
Sure, I can use the web interface to change this, which I did, but I'm still not understanding why both the internal and the other name aren't the same by default, since this is likely the more common case.
We think the more common case is that people want the capitalization. Look for example at <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo>.
-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mark Sapiro wrote:
Are you sure your postfix aliases for Mailman are case sensitive. I doubt it. Try mailing to test@mailman.example.com and Test@mailman.example.com. I suspect both messages will get posted to the list.
You are 100% right. I did NOT know this!! All these years of misinformation...
Sure, I can use the web interface to change this, which I did, but I'm still not understanding why both the internal and the other name aren't the same by default, since this is likely the more common case.
We think the more common case is that people want the capitalization. Look for example at <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo>.
I see what you mean, although I wonder how many list administrators are even aware of this issue.
My intuition tells me that programs shouldn't change the case of user-supplied data unless there's a very good reason for doing so, and it's clear that it's happening. But, you are clearly the expert in this area.
Anyway, thanks for your help.
Jon Forrest
Jon Forrest wrote:
My intuition tells me that programs shouldn't change the case of user-supplied data unless there's a very good reason for doing so, and it's clear that it's happening. But, you are clearly the expert in this area.
I understand your point and it seems valid. I can't speak to the discussions that may have taken place in deciding on current behavior as that was all well before I joined the project.
-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
On 10/27/06 6:17 PM, "Jon Forrest" <forrest@ce.berkeley.edu> wrote:
Are you sure your postfix aliases for Mailman are case sensitive. I doubt it. Try mailing to test@mailman.example.com and Test@mailman.example.com. I suspect both messages will get posted to the list.
You are 100% right. I did NOT know this!! All these years of misinformation...
The current situation is that the local parts are not case sensitive almost everywhere, but CAN be. (Exim, for example, has a little-used option to create case-sensitivity. I don't speak Postfix, but a quick look at "Postfix, The Definitive Guide" didn't show me an equivalent option.)
So (most) MTAs are stuck preserving case, particularly on messages relayed to other MTAs, but comparing all lower case. This seemingly was a political thing in the mail standards meetings--there were still enough case-sensitive sites to keep the status quo.
--John
participants (3)
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John W. Baxter -
Jon Forrest -
Mark Sapiro