Using Mailman at Hostmonster - default server IP
Help.
I have been using mailman at hostmonster many years. Recently, email delivery to external domains stopped (yes, DNS / SPF/ DKIM/ DMARC all good). Hostmonster says it is a IP address issues Hostmonster - "The emails sent via Mailman use the IP address 127.0.0.1, which is the default IP address of the server. Unfortunately, when emails from this address are dropped due to mailing list restrictions, it becomes challenging to lift these restrictions, thereby preventing us from resolving the Mailman-related issues effectively. "
Has anyone else experienced this problem? Is there a solution?
Thank you, Michael
On 12/18/24 11:26, ski--- via Mailman-Users wrote:
Help. I have been using mailman at hostmonster many years. Recently, email delivery to external domains stopped (yes, DNS / SPF/ DKIM/ DMARC all good). Hostmonster says it is a IP address issues Hostmonster - "The emails sent via Mailman use the IP address 127.0.0.1, which is the default IP address of the server. Unfortunately, when emails from this address are dropped due to mailing list restrictions, it becomes challenging to lift these restrictions, thereby preventing us from resolving the Mailman-related issues effectively. " Has anyone else experienced this problem? Is there a solution?
It seems Hostmonster doesn't have a clue about how to support Mailman. Do they use cPanel. Many hosting services use cPanel, and while some do support Mailman, others offer Mailman lists only because they come with cPanel and don't have any interest in actually supporting it.
Mailman delivers mail via an outgoing MTA, most often and by default
this is the MTA listening on localhost (127.0.0.1) port 25. Mailman has
logs smtp and smtp-failure that can help diagnose delivery failures
as can information in the MTA's logs. Why the fact that Mailman connects
to the MTA at 127.0.0.1 complicates this in any way is not something I
understand.
Hopefully you can find someone at hostmonster that has a clue.
If this is cPanel mailman, see https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20CPanel
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
I've recently run into the exact same issue with BlueHost (actually JustHost) and it is a cPanel version of Mailman. And they told me the same thing and recommended I use another program. So greatly interested in finding a solution for how to fix this problem that just crept up recently.
I created a post on cPanel. Hopefully they'll have some good answers come through on there.
https://support.cpanel.net/hc/en-us/community/posts/28706820128407-Mailman-o...
One issue I found is it could be the host is blocking the outgoing port that Mailman uses. So I'm asking my hosting provider about that possibility.
Grace and Peace, Jeff
On 12/21/24 08:38, jeff@scroggsfamily.net wrote:
One issue I found is it could be the host is blocking the outgoing port that Mailman uses. So I'm asking my hosting provider about that possibility.
This is unlikely. Mailman sends to localhost port 25 (in cPanel, this is the exim MTA). Presumably, mail is getting to exim because it is ultimately delivered to local users. If non-mailman mail is delivered to external users without problems, the issue is probably in exim's configuration for mailman. See https://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
This was the response I had received from Hostmonster.
Hostmonster - The emails sent via Mailman use the IP address 127.0.0.1, which is the default IP address of the server. Unfortunately, when emails from this address are dropped due to mailing list restrictions, it becomes challenging to lift these restrictions, thereby preventing us from resolving the Mailman-related issues effectively.
Currently when the emails are sent from mailing lists, then those emails will be marked as spam, even though the user didn’t send large volume of emails from the server.
We have observed similar issues from other customers using MailMan for bulk emailing. I am afraid, there is currently no workaround for this issue when using MailMan. Given these challenges, I kindly request you to consider an alternative solution, such as phpList over Mailman, for bulk email management.
This is shared hosting, right? I'm using Mailman (different host, though) on a VPS and the list emails use the IP address of my VPS.
On Thu, Jan 2, 2025 at 12:05 PM ski--- via Mailman-Users < mailman-users@python.org> wrote:
This was the response I had received from Hostmonster.
Hostmonster - The emails sent via Mailman use the IP address 127.0.0.1, which is the default IP address of the server. Unfortunately, when emails from this address are dropped due to mailing list restrictions, it becomes challenging to lift these restrictions, thereby preventing us from resolving the Mailman-related issues effectively.
Currently when the emails are sent from mailing lists, then those emails will be marked as spam, even though the user didn’t send large volume of emails from the server.
We have observed similar issues from other customers using MailMan for bulk emailing. I am afraid, there is currently no workaround for this issue when using MailMan. Given these challenges, I kindly request you to consider an alternative solution, such as phpList over Mailman, for bulk email management.
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/ Member address: rclemings@gmail.com
--
Russell Clemings <rclemings@gmail.com>
On 1/2/25 12:11, Russell Clemings via Mailman-Users wrote:
This is shared hosting, right? I'm using Mailman (different host, though) on a VPS and the list emails use the IP address of my VPS.
This is for outgoing mail which is presumably also the case (IP of the shared server) for the mail from the hostmonster/bluehost lists. Bluehost seems to be saying that they are unable to diagnose mail delivery issues because the mail from Mailman is delivered to the outgoing MTA via 127.0.0.1:25 which is nonsense.
If in fact they are saying the outgoing mail is sent from 127.0.0.1, that is a problem but is a misconfiguration in the outgoing MTA and has nothing to do with Mailman. They need to see https://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html for info on configuring exim (cPanel's MTA of choice) to work with Mailman.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
On 1/2/25 12:04, ski--- via Mailman-Users wrote:
This was the response I had received from Hostmonster.
Hostmonster - The emails sent via Mailman use the IP address 127.0.0.1, which is the default IP address of the server. Unfortunately, when emails from this address are dropped due to mailing list restrictions, it becomes challenging to lift these restrictions, thereby preventing us from resolving the Mailman-related issues effectively.
What mailing list restrictions?
The above makes no sense. It is a boilerplate response from some person or thing that has no understanding of the issue.
Currently when the emails are sent from mailing lists, then those emails will be marked as spam, even though the user didn’t send large volume of emails from the server.
I think this is talking about mail delivered from the mailing list to the end recipient. As I understand your OP, Mailman's mail was not being sent to external recipients, i.e. not being sent rather thyan being sent and marked as spam by the recipient ISP.
That said I manage multiple Mailman servers and for the most part, our list mail, including mail from this list, is not marked as spam by the recipients. This should not be an issue for servers that are properly configured MTAs, publish appropriate SPF and DKIM sign outgoing list mail
We have observed similar issues from other customers using MailMan for bulk emailing. I am afraid, there is currently no workaround for this issue when using MailMan. Given these challenges, I kindly request you to consider an alternative solution, such as phpList over Mailman, for bulk email management.
I am guessing that your problem started when hostmonster was taken over by Bluehost. If that's the case, I suggest that Bluehost is unwilling or unable to support Mailman and I suggest your appropriate solution is to find a host that does support Mailman. Hopefully, Bluehost will provide your lists' config.pck file(s) and archive mailboxes for a transition.
If not, see the mailman-subscribers.py or mailman-subscribers3.py scripts at https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/ (mirrored at https://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/) which can at least get you the list membership by screen scraping the admin web UI.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Thank you Mark for your reply.
Yes, I found it strange also. I have been with HostMonster for 20 years. Almost zero issues until mid-October. What was strange is that the lists were working intermittently for about a month after that. Also, I had suspicions about the Bluehost acquisition.
I am going to try HostGator. They have a 30 day trial.
I have one domain, my primary email that is protected by spamexperts. I thought that was the issue and but i tried with other domains not using spamexperts and had the same results.
While I am generally versed with IT things. I never got down to the nuts and bolts of the apps. So I'm at the mercy of services that do.
Hi All,
I'm gathering feedback from my list of users trying to track down an odd problem in which headers display in individual messages (To, From, Subject) but the entire body of the message is attached as a text file and not displayed in the message.
Subject to further information, this seems to be the situation so far:
a) Problem started on or about January 8th 2025.
b) People got magically switched from MIME display settings, to plain text settings in their GNU Mailman account. Still waiting to see if switching them back to MIME has helped.
c) Two of the affected users are utilizing Microsoft Outlook. I'm not sure yet if they are on laptop Outlook clients, or logging into Outlook Web Browser interfaces for their email. Both of these people can read their GNU Mailman messages just fine on their iPhones.
d) The text attachments are -- not surprisingly -- in plain text. These people were originally subscribed for MIME format.
e) They state this problem is not occurring with any other emails or lists.
One user is on an @usf.edu domain (maybe hosted by Microsoft?). One user is on Gmail (and using Outlook). One user is on an @mindspring.com account (Earth Link).
Not all my users are having this problem. I'm hosted at Proton Mail and using a Thunderbird client -- not seeing this issue myself.
Anyone understand what's going on here?
Thanks,
Michael
Michael Reeder LCPC Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore, Maryland 410-871-TALK / PREFERRED ADDRESS: michael(at)securemail.hygeiacounseling.com http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website. This message is intended only for the named recipient(s). If you are not one of them, please notify me & delete it. Nonetheless, email is inherently insecure and confidentiality can not be assured -- use care in what you choose to disclose.
Please don't hijack threads. I.e., to start a new topic, post a new message, not a reply to an existing message.
On 1/12/25 19:32, Michael Reeder LCPC Secure via Mailman-Users wrote:
I'm gathering feedback from my list of users trying to track down an odd problem in which headers display in individual messages (To, From, Subject) but the entire body of the message is attached as a text file and not displayed in the message.
See the FAQ at https://wiki.list.org/x/4030707
Your list probably has a non-empty value for Non-digest options -> msg_header causing the header, possibly containing only whitespace, to be added as a separate MIME part and viewed by some MUAs as the message body.
Subject to further information, this seems to be the situation so far:
a) Problem started on or about January 8th 2025.
b) People got magically switched from MIME display settings, to plain text settings in their GNU Mailman account. Still waiting to see if switching them back to MIME has helped.
This only affects digest subscribers. Individual messages are not affected by this.
d) The text attachments are -- not surprisingly -- in plain text. These people were originally subscribed for MIME format.
Again, this only affects the format of digests and has nothing to do with HTML vs plain text in any case.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mark wrote: "Please don't hijack threads. I.e., to start a new topic, post a new message, not a reply to an existing message."
Apologizes Mark -- that is basic list etiquette. I thought I had started a new message chain by erasing all text in an existing message and changing the Subject Line -- but nope, I was wrong. Will start entirely from scratch next time!
Mark wrote: "Your list probably has a non-empty value for Non-digest options -> msg_header causing the header, possibly containing only whitespace, to be added as a separate MIME part and viewed by some MUAs as the message body."
This is most likely the problem! Sometime between 1/7 and 1/10 I made a change to the formatting of individual messages in which I added a msg_header to all individual non-digest messages heading out to the list.
I HAVE NOW DELETED THE MSG_HEADER AND AM MONITORING TO SEE IF THAT FIXES IT!
Hopefully we are done. I will update if needed.
Thanks,
Michael
Michael Reeder LCPC Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore, Maryland 410-871-TALK / PREFERRED ADDRESS: michael(at)securemail.hygeiacounseling.com
On 1/13/2025 12:36 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
Please don't hijack threads. I.e., to start a new topic, post a new message, not a reply to an existing message.
On 1/12/25 19:32, Michael Reeder LCPC Secure via Mailman-Users wrote:
I'm gathering feedback from my list of users trying to track down an odd problem in which headers display in individual messages (To, From, Subject) but the entire body of the message is attached as a text file and not displayed in the message.
See the FAQ at https://wiki.list.org/x/4030707 Your list probably has a non-empty value for Non-digest options -> msg_header causing the header, possibly containing only whitespace, to be added as a separate MIME part and viewed by some MUAs as the message body.
Subject to further information, this seems to be the situation so far:
a) Problem started on or about January 8th 2025.
b) People got magically switched from MIME display settings, to plain text settings in their GNU Mailman account. Still waiting to see if switching them back to MIME has helped.
This only affects digest subscribers. Individual messages are not affected by this.
d) The text attachments are -- not surprisingly -- in plain text. These people were originally subscribed for MIME format.
Again, this only affects the format of digests and has nothing to do with HTML vs plain text in any case.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Hi All,
I'm gathering feedback from my list of users trying to track down an odd problem in which headers display in individual messages (To, From, Subject) but the entire body of the message is attached as a text file and not displayed in the message.
Subject to further information, this seems to be the situation so far:
a) Problem started on or about January 8th 2025.
b) People got magically switched from MIME display settings, to plain text settings in their GNU Mailman account. Still waiting to see if switching them back to MIME has helped.
c) Two of the affected users are utilizing Microsoft Outlook. I'm not sure yet if they are on laptop Outlook clients, or logging into Outlook Web Browser interfaces for their email. Both of these people can read their GNU Mailman messages just fine on their iPhones.
d) The text attachments are -- not surprisingly -- in plain text. These people were originally subscribed for MIME format.
e) They state this problem is not occurring with any other emails or lists.
One user is on an @usf.edu domain (maybe hosted by Microsoft?). One user is on Gmail (and using Outlook). One user is on an @mindspring.com account (Earth Link).
Not all my users are having this problem. I'm hosted at Proton Mail and using a Thunderbird client -- not seeing this issue myself.
Anyone understand what's going on here?
Thanks,
Michael
Michael Reeder LCPC Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore, Maryland 410-871-TALK / PREFERRED ADDRESS: michael(at)securemail.hygeiacounseling.com http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website. This message is intended only for the named recipient(s). If you are not one of them, please notify me & delete it. Nonetheless, email is inherently insecure and confidentiality can not be assured -- use care in what you choose to disclose.
participants (5)
-
jeff＠scroggsfamily.net -
Mark Sapiro -
Michael Reeder LCPC Secure -
Russell Clemings -
ski＠brytt.net