Re: [Mailman-Users] Personal Trainer
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/e01633ee2d8f2945db3403c7579afb9a.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
I have an idea, lets all spam the spammers.
Better yet, rebuild your sendmail to use the blackhole list and get these arses on the black hole list.
Rob
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/226ed0b1650c90c2a0c0dc8a4d2d282b.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
At 12:18 PM 3/29/2001 -0600, Robert Brandtjen wrote:
Why not turn moderation for the list ON -- so only subscribers can post?
Then, let a few of us approve posters that are held for the moderator. That way the list owner will be happy that he doesn't have lots of extra work and the rest of us can be happy without having to deal with lots of spam.
The spam is *quite* easy for a human to detect. I hereby volunteer for duty if called....
reb
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ab9b64c9ef8fe7aeb36f25bb1c5e5896.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On 11:03 AM 3/29/01, Phydeaux wrote:
The spam is *quite* easy for a human to detect. I hereby volunteer for duty if called....
<jc raises hand>
<ObAOL>
Me to!
</ObAOL>
jc
-- Real courtesy requires human effort and understanding. Never let your machine or your habit send courtesy copies.
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/2206e8a0d58563f815a7568ea6675313.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On Thursday, March 29, 2001, at 11:41 AM, alex wetmore wrote:
In the past couple of weeks there have been many more messages complaining about the spam then spam itself...
yup. and until the spam goes away, that'll continue, too. Which is another reason to make the spam go away -- because it's not only noise in the system, it's noise that breeds other noise. And that other noise breeds discussions like this, where we're having a meta-argument about the noise complaining about the noise.... All of which does nothing useful except keep people from talking about what the list is about.
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/cb6b2a19d7ea20358a4c4f0332afc3ef.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
"cvr" == chuq von rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> writes:
cvr> yup. and until the spam goes away, that'll continue,
cvr> too.
Our Exim administrator has installed the filters suggested by Marc Merlin (thanks Marc). Let's see if that staunches the flow of spam.
-Barry
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/2f8c4ab510f5ffd1a03a6d85d6083503.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On Fri, Mar 30, 2001 at 10:54:11AM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
The only way to know for sure is to look at the exim rejectlogs, people will complain about the 10% of spam that still goes through :-)
And then, there are the perfectly legitimate posts from clueless people :-) (but now that you restricted posting by non members, both options should reduce spam to about 0)
Marc
Microsoft is to operating systems & security .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ | Finger marc_f@merlins.org for PGP key
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chuq von rospach wrote: On Thursday, March 29, 2001, at 11:41 AM, alex wetmore wrote:
I disagree. Since we can't control spammers, perhaps we should simply control ourselves, and instead of complaining about the spam, we should simply delete it. I'm sure Barry is doing all he can to limit the influx of crap, but there's little he can do about people whining.
rone
Ron Echeverri +-+ <rone@macromedia.com> UNIX Engineer San Francisco ->b | Desk: x2149 Macromedia, Inc. \ \ Cell: +1-408-4250188 <URL:http://ite/~rone/> \_| Pager: +1-888-6585681
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On 11:05 AM 3/30/01, Ron Echeverri wrote:
As people who setup and manage mailing lists and mailing list servers and email servers, keeping spam off the lists *we setup* for our users is part of our job. That's why discussing this issue IS useful, it gets tools made that automate that job, which is why we have mailing list software (like mailman, like majordomo) in the first place. This list is merely an example. Keeping spam off this particular list isn't nearly as important as being able to keep spam off similar lists, and determining if this can be easily done with mailman or not.
I keep bringing up this list merely because it seems to be pity that the list server software authors don't care more about configuring their OWN list to meet what I consider minimum list configuration requirements.
Perhaps that was a mistake, because I'm not nearly as concerned with the setup of this particular list as I am with whether I can configure mailman to setup MY lists the way I want them. So far, none of my questions on this topic have been addressed by other subscribers of this list or by the software authors.
I have 2 outstanding questions about mailman configuration options:
- Does mailman have a configuration setting such that everyone who is subscribed to a list can post unmoderated, but email from a non-subscriber will be sent to a moderator for approval?
Yes or No?
To let some non-subscribers post without moderation (a practice that I personally feel has dubious value, since their question might be answered in a post to the list, perhaps in response to someone else asking the same question, but they won't see it because they aren't subscribed), how about implementing simple filter so that if a non-subscriber's post mentions one or more keywords, let it through to the list unmoderated, otherwise it goes to the moderator?
Is this currently available, or not?
- Is [content filtering on the headers or body, to block messages that are in reply to an entire digest] possible with mailman? Before I move my majordomo list to a new server with new mailing list software (mailman is the software I'm considering, obviously), it is a requirement that I can configure that software to do the same things I can currently easily do with majordomo. I don't want to waste my time trying to futz around with installing and configuring mailman before I learn that it won't let me do some of the critical things I need it to do.
Is this available, or not?
jc
-- Real courtesy requires human effort and understanding. Never let your machine or your habit send courtesy copies.
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/7f4bd9ce4ade62c03496db4364de5008.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Steve orion@deathcon.com Owner/Admin deathcon.com - pirk.com webops.com - disclaimer.com
On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, JC Dill wrote:
Yes. The settings are (these *may* be overkill :-): Privacy Options: Advertise this list when people ask what lists are on this machine? NO What steps are required for subscription? Confirm Who can view subscription list? List Members Show member addrs so they're not directly recognizable as email addrs? Yes Must posts be approved by an administrator? No Restrict posting privilege to list members? (member_posting_only) YES
These basic settings will keep the list private, and *any* posts by a non-member go to the moderator (owner) for approval.
Check the "RegX" settings at the bottom of the privacy options.
Not sure, but some people have written extra filters to do things like this. I think a search of the archives might be the only answer.
jc
Steve orion@deathcon.com Owner/Admin deathcon.com - pirk.com webops.com - disclaimer.com
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/cb6b2a19d7ea20358a4c4f0332afc3ef.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Dan already answered the other questions, so I'll just add a bit here...
"JD" == JC Dill <mailman@vo.cnchost.com> writes:
JD> how about implementing simple filter so that if a
JD> non-subscriber's post mentions one or more keywords, let it
JD> through to the list unmoderated, otherwise it goes to the
JD> moderator?
While you can do this with a bit of (easy) Python hacking, as Dan mentioned, there will be some opportunities to add this feature more directly, based on some work that will happen on Mailman in the near future. I'll keep this in mind.
-Barry
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/226ed0b1650c90c2a0c0dc8a4d2d282b.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
At 12:18 PM 3/29/2001 -0600, Robert Brandtjen wrote:
Why not turn moderation for the list ON -- so only subscribers can post?
Then, let a few of us approve posters that are held for the moderator. That way the list owner will be happy that he doesn't have lots of extra work and the rest of us can be happy without having to deal with lots of spam.
The spam is *quite* easy for a human to detect. I hereby volunteer for duty if called....
reb
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ab9b64c9ef8fe7aeb36f25bb1c5e5896.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On 11:03 AM 3/29/01, Phydeaux wrote:
The spam is *quite* easy for a human to detect. I hereby volunteer for duty if called....
<jc raises hand>
<ObAOL>
Me to!
</ObAOL>
jc
-- Real courtesy requires human effort and understanding. Never let your machine or your habit send courtesy copies.
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/2206e8a0d58563f815a7568ea6675313.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On Thursday, March 29, 2001, at 11:41 AM, alex wetmore wrote:
In the past couple of weeks there have been many more messages complaining about the spam then spam itself...
yup. and until the spam goes away, that'll continue, too. Which is another reason to make the spam go away -- because it's not only noise in the system, it's noise that breeds other noise. And that other noise breeds discussions like this, where we're having a meta-argument about the noise complaining about the noise.... All of which does nothing useful except keep people from talking about what the list is about.
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/cb6b2a19d7ea20358a4c4f0332afc3ef.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
"cvr" == chuq von rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> writes:
cvr> yup. and until the spam goes away, that'll continue,
cvr> too.
Our Exim administrator has installed the filters suggested by Marc Merlin (thanks Marc). Let's see if that staunches the flow of spam.
-Barry
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/2f8c4ab510f5ffd1a03a6d85d6083503.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On Fri, Mar 30, 2001 at 10:54:11AM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
The only way to know for sure is to look at the exim rejectlogs, people will complain about the 10% of spam that still goes through :-)
And then, there are the perfectly legitimate posts from clueless people :-) (but now that you restricted posting by non members, both options should reduce spam to about 0)
Marc
Microsoft is to operating systems & security .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ | Finger marc_f@merlins.org for PGP key
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/33caa64926f5684d8a726134b9aafc76.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
chuq von rospach wrote: On Thursday, March 29, 2001, at 11:41 AM, alex wetmore wrote:
I disagree. Since we can't control spammers, perhaps we should simply control ourselves, and instead of complaining about the spam, we should simply delete it. I'm sure Barry is doing all he can to limit the influx of crap, but there's little he can do about people whining.
rone
Ron Echeverri +-+ <rone@macromedia.com> UNIX Engineer San Francisco ->b | Desk: x2149 Macromedia, Inc. \ \ Cell: +1-408-4250188 <URL:http://ite/~rone/> \_| Pager: +1-888-6585681
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ab9b64c9ef8fe7aeb36f25bb1c5e5896.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On 11:05 AM 3/30/01, Ron Echeverri wrote:
As people who setup and manage mailing lists and mailing list servers and email servers, keeping spam off the lists *we setup* for our users is part of our job. That's why discussing this issue IS useful, it gets tools made that automate that job, which is why we have mailing list software (like mailman, like majordomo) in the first place. This list is merely an example. Keeping spam off this particular list isn't nearly as important as being able to keep spam off similar lists, and determining if this can be easily done with mailman or not.
I keep bringing up this list merely because it seems to be pity that the list server software authors don't care more about configuring their OWN list to meet what I consider minimum list configuration requirements.
Perhaps that was a mistake, because I'm not nearly as concerned with the setup of this particular list as I am with whether I can configure mailman to setup MY lists the way I want them. So far, none of my questions on this topic have been addressed by other subscribers of this list or by the software authors.
I have 2 outstanding questions about mailman configuration options:
- Does mailman have a configuration setting such that everyone who is subscribed to a list can post unmoderated, but email from a non-subscriber will be sent to a moderator for approval?
Yes or No?
To let some non-subscribers post without moderation (a practice that I personally feel has dubious value, since their question might be answered in a post to the list, perhaps in response to someone else asking the same question, but they won't see it because they aren't subscribed), how about implementing simple filter so that if a non-subscriber's post mentions one or more keywords, let it through to the list unmoderated, otherwise it goes to the moderator?
Is this currently available, or not?
- Is [content filtering on the headers or body, to block messages that are in reply to an entire digest] possible with mailman? Before I move my majordomo list to a new server with new mailing list software (mailman is the software I'm considering, obviously), it is a requirement that I can configure that software to do the same things I can currently easily do with majordomo. I don't want to waste my time trying to futz around with installing and configuring mailman before I learn that it won't let me do some of the critical things I need it to do.
Is this available, or not?
jc
-- Real courtesy requires human effort and understanding. Never let your machine or your habit send courtesy copies.
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/7f4bd9ce4ade62c03496db4364de5008.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Steve orion@deathcon.com Owner/Admin deathcon.com - pirk.com webops.com - disclaimer.com
On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, JC Dill wrote:
Yes. The settings are (these *may* be overkill :-): Privacy Options: Advertise this list when people ask what lists are on this machine? NO What steps are required for subscription? Confirm Who can view subscription list? List Members Show member addrs so they're not directly recognizable as email addrs? Yes Must posts be approved by an administrator? No Restrict posting privilege to list members? (member_posting_only) YES
These basic settings will keep the list private, and *any* posts by a non-member go to the moderator (owner) for approval.
Check the "RegX" settings at the bottom of the privacy options.
Not sure, but some people have written extra filters to do things like this. I think a search of the archives might be the only answer.
jc
Steve orion@deathcon.com Owner/Admin deathcon.com - pirk.com webops.com - disclaimer.com
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/cb6b2a19d7ea20358a4c4f0332afc3ef.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Dan already answered the other questions, so I'll just add a bit here...
"JD" == JC Dill <mailman@vo.cnchost.com> writes:
JD> how about implementing simple filter so that if a
JD> non-subscriber's post mentions one or more keywords, let it
JD> through to the list unmoderated, otherwise it goes to the
JD> moderator?
While you can do this with a bit of (easy) Python hacking, as Dan mentioned, there will be some opportunities to add this feature more directly, based on some work that will happen on Mailman in the near future. I'll keep this in mind.
-Barry
participants (9)
-
alex wetmore
-
barry@digicool.com
-
chuq von rospach
-
JC Dill
-
Marc MERLIN
-
Phydeaux
-
Robert Brandtjen
-
Ron Echeverri
-
Steve Pirk