All,
I did some searching and don't seem to be able to find anything in the archives related to this, so...
I previously was running a series of lists on a Mac OS 10.4 Server, which I believe runs Mailman 2.1.3. And there were no real problems with duplicate messages.
I have just now updated to 10.6.2, which runs Mailman 2.1.12rc1, and Dovecot (which I wouldn't think would impact anything). And yeah, already had to patch for the admindb error.
Anyway, the problem is, I have several lists comprised of different classes of users... in this case:
Faculty Staff Admin Students
There are a few users that are members of several of these lists. So, let's say I'm a member of Faculty, and Staff. I have "nodups" checked for all the instances that I am in those lists, and in all places, my email address is listed the same (same email address, same all lower case).
Okay, then I have a list called "Everyone" that has the above lists as members.
In 10.4, with Mailman 2.1.3, if someone emailed to "everyone" I only got one copy of that message.
Now in 10.6.2, with Mailman 2.1.12rc1, if I email to everyone, I get multiples. If I'm only a member of 2 of the "child" lists, I get two copies. If I'm a member of 4 of those children, I get 4 copies.
Again, nodups is on. I'm really quite lost as to why this is happening.
I did just move over the mailman directory from /var/mailman from the previous server to this one, and everything seems to work. The previous server and this one have the same IP and DNS info, so this shouldn't be an issue. =/
-Ryan Stasel
Ryan Stasel wrote:
I previously was running a series of lists on a Mac OS 10.4 Server, which I believe runs Mailman 2.1.3. And there were no real problems with duplicate messages.
I have just now updated to 10.6.2, which runs Mailman 2.1.12rc1, and Dovecot (which I wouldn't think would impact anything). And yeah, already had to patch for the admindb error.
[...]
Okay, then I have a list called "Everyone" that has the above lists as members.
In 10.4, with Mailman 2.1.3, if someone emailed to "everyone" I only got one copy of that message.
Now in 10.6.2, with Mailman 2.1.12rc1, if I email to everyone, I get multiples. If I'm only a member of 2 of the "child" lists, I get two copies. If I'm a member of 4 of those children, I get 4 copies.
Again, nodups is on. I'm really quite lost as to why this is happening.
This is the normal behavior for umbrella lists and has been since before 2.1.3.
Possibilities include:
Apple had a patch in their 2.1.3 and removed it in their 2.1.11rc1 (this is only a conjecture - I don't know this).
something in the outgoing MTA to you path that used to deliver only 1 of multiple messages with duplicate message-ids changed and is no longer dropping dups.
See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/TIA9> for more on umbrella lists and workarounds including how to use regular_include_lists to make a 'better' umbrella list if you're not concerned about digest members of the sub-lists or processing bounces of posts sent to the "everyone" list.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
On Jan 5, 2010, at 06:59 , Mark Sapiro wrote:
Ryan Stasel wrote:
I previously was running a series of lists on a Mac OS 10.4 Server, which I believe runs Mailman 2.1.3. And there were no real problems with duplicate messages.
I have just now updated to 10.6.2, which runs Mailman 2.1.12rc1, and Dovecot (which I wouldn't think would impact anything). And yeah, already had to patch for the admindb error.
[...]
Okay, then I have a list called "Everyone" that has the above lists as members.
In 10.4, with Mailman 2.1.3, if someone emailed to "everyone" I only got one copy of that message.
Now in 10.6.2, with Mailman 2.1.12rc1, if I email to everyone, I get multiples. If I'm only a member of 2 of the "child" lists, I get two copies. If I'm a member of 4 of those children, I get 4 copies.
Again, nodups is on. I'm really quite lost as to why this is happening.
This is the normal behavior for umbrella lists and has been since before 2.1.3.
Okay.
Possibilities include:
- Apple had a patch in their 2.1.3 and removed it in their 2.1.11rc1 (this is only a conjecture - I don't know this).
Could be, but I'd have to doubt it.
- something in the outgoing MTA to you path that used to deliver only 1 of multiple messages with duplicate message-ids changed and is no longer dropping dups.
This looks like the case. It looks like Dovecot doesn't have any kind of duplicate suppression (at least, not that I can find (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=10775374&tstart=0)). Odd... might be able to do something with sieve, but..
See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/TIA9> for more on umbrella lists and workarounds including how to use regular_include_lists to make a 'better' umbrella list if you're not concerned about digest members of the sub-lists or processing bounces of posts sent to the "everyone" list.
I'm giving this a shot. For testing at least, I've just checked "no mail" for the child lists, and added them to the regular_include_lists, and we'll see what happens.
Thanks very much!
-Ryan Stasel
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 08:28:58AM -0800, Ryan Stasel wrote:
On Jan 5, 2010, at 06:59 , Mark Sapiro wrote:
- something in the outgoing MTA to you path that used to deliver only 1 of multiple messages with duplicate message-ids changed and is no longer dropping dups.
This looks like the case. It looks like Dovecot doesn't have any kind of duplicate suppression (at least, not that I can find
Dovecot is *not* an MTA.
q.v. <http://wiki.dovecot.org/MailServerOverview>: "As an IMAP and POP3 server, Dovecot provides a way for mail-user agents [MUA] to access their mail. As such, Dovecot is NOT responsible for receiving mail from other servers. Dovecot presents mail already stored on the system to MUA's."
or, indeed, <http://www.dovecot.org/list/dovecot/2009-November/044640.html>
(I thought the expression "Dovecot is not a[n] MTA" was *somewhere on the dovecot wiki, I can't seem to find it.)
de-duplication should be handled by the MTA before passing it to an IMAP/POP server
I'd go back to the MTA(s) (Exim, Postfix, Sendmail, &c) config, and see what's going on there.
-- ``The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.'' (George Bernard Shaw)
Adam,
My bad, as I realized it wasn't an MTA, but was caught up reading something else when I was typing. However, this doesn't change the fact that previously, Cyrus did duplicate suppression, and Dovecot does not... which is why this worked when my imap/pop server was Cyrus, and now I get duplicates with Dovecot.
I'm not sure postfix (the MTA) should be doing the duplicate suppression. But looking around online, it seems like there is a very large argument that goes something like: "Dovecot should do it" -> "It's not dovecot's problem, it's the maillist software" -> "MTA should do it" -> "Dovecot should do it". -> Rinse, Repeat. Oh, and some argue something like procmail/sieve should do it.
Given all that, dovecot probably shouldn't do duplicate suppression. Needless, though, there's still seemingly no good answer for those that use Dovecot for imap/pop.
BTW, this is the closest I can find: http://wiki.dovecot.org/MTA
-Ryan Stasel
On Jan 5, 2010, at 09:13 , Adam McGreggor wrote:
On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 08:28:58AM -0800, Ryan Stasel wrote:
On Jan 5, 2010, at 06:59 , Mark Sapiro wrote:
- something in the outgoing MTA to you path that used to deliver only 1 of multiple messages with duplicate message-ids changed and is no longer dropping dups.
This looks like the case. It looks like Dovecot doesn't have any kind of duplicate suppression (at least, not that I can find
Dovecot is *not* an MTA.
q.v. <http://wiki.dovecot.org/MailServerOverview>: "As an IMAP and POP3 server, Dovecot provides a way for mail-user agents [MUA] to access their mail. As such, Dovecot is NOT responsible for receiving mail from other servers. Dovecot presents mail already stored on the system to MUA's."
or, indeed, <http://www.dovecot.org/list/dovecot/2009-November/044640.html>
(I thought the expression "Dovecot is not a[n] MTA" was *somewhere on the dovecot wiki, I can't seem to find it.)
de-duplication should be handled by the MTA before passing it to an IMAP/POP server
I'd go back to the MTA(s) (Exim, Postfix, Sendmail, &c) config, and see what's going on there.
-- ``The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.'' (George Bernard Shaw)
On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 09:25:58AM -0800, Ryan Stasel wrote:
I'm not sure postfix (the MTA) should be doing the duplicate suppression. But looking around online, it seems like there is a very large argument that goes something like: "Dovecot should do it" -> "It's not dovecot's problem, it's the maillist software" -> "MTA should do it" -> "Dovecot should do it". -> Rinse, Repeat. Oh, and some argue something like procmail/sieve should do it.
Sounds about right; take your pick for how/where/if you want to do it ;)
-- ``Sir Humphrey: The ship of state, Bernard, is the only ship that leaks from the top.
See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/TIA9> for more on umbrella lists and workarounds including how to use regular_include_lists to make a 'better' umbrella list if you're not concerned about digest members of the sub-lists or processing bounces of posts sent to the "everyone" list.
Just wanted to respond and say, this (putting the child lists in regular_include_lists) worked perfectly.
Thanks very much!
-Ryan Stasel Systems Administrator School of Journalism and Communication University of Oregon
participants (3)
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Adam McGreggor -
Mark Sapiro -
Ryan Stasel