need assistance upgrading Mailman
I manage 70+ Mailman listservs for the Episcopal Diocese of Newark, and we are having terrible problems with emails not being delivered because they fail DMARC Evaluation, to the point that it's disrupting communications in the diocese.
Our listservs are hosted by MediaTemple which provides Mailman ver. 2.1.9. I understand that if I were to upgrade to the latest version there are new features that would solve this problem. I've found the upgrade instructions (http://wiki.list.org/DOC/4.80%20How%20do%20I%20upgrade%20from%20Mailman%202....) but they are beyond my limited Unix skills. MediaTemple refuses to do the upgrade.
I'm desperately looking for some guidance on how to get this taken care of. I would be willing to pay someone to do this as a freelance project.
Any help is appreciated. Thank you.
Nina Nicholson Director of Communications & Technology The Episcopal Diocese of Newark 973-430-9907 http://dioceseofnewark.org http://facebook.com/dionewark http://twitter.com/dionewark
On 08/23/2015 04:45 PM, Nina Nicholson wrote:
I manage 70+ Mailman listservs for the Episcopal Diocese of Newark, and we are having terrible problems with emails not being delivered because they fail DMARC Evaluation, to the point that it's disrupting communications in the diocese.
Please see <http://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20is%20not%20Listserv>
Our listservs are hosted by MediaTemple which provides Mailman ver. 2.1.9. I understand that if I were to upgrade to the latest version there are new features that would solve this problem. I've found the upgrade instructions (http://wiki.list.org/DOC/4.80%20How%20do%20I%20upgrade%20from%20Mailman%202....) but they are beyond my limited Unix skills. MediaTemple refuses to do the upgrade.
Do you have a VPS with Mailman installed or are you on a shared host? If the latter, it is unlikely that you have the access necessary to upgrade Mailman on the host and it is unlikely that MediaTemple would be happy with your doing it even if you could.
You may wish to see <http://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services>. I have no information on most of these, but based on interactions with the proprietor of EMWD and dotList, I can recommend them. This should not be construed as a negative review of anyone else on that list. It's just that I have no basis to evaluate most of them.
You may also find <http://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20consulting%20services> of interest. Particularly the link to the Python jobs board.
Finally, you may wish to try one of the suggestions at <http://wiki.list.org/x/17891458> as an interim stopgap measure.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Thanks all for your quick replies.
Duly noted: Mailman lists are not Listservs. Also, not all tissues are Kleenex and not all adhesive tape is Scotch Tape -- but these copyrighted names all tend to get used as generic terms. :)
I have a dedicated virtual server with a shell login account and am allowed to update it. Unfortunately, my Unix skills are minimal and not up to attempting this on my own. I have managed other installations on my server when being walked through it, remotely, by an experienced person.
I looked at pricing for http://www.emwd.com, and at $4.50 per month per list, with 70+ lists, this would cost us in excess of $3780/year. We're a religious organization with the budget to match -- before I can get Diocesan Council to approve that type of budget increase for something we've had for free up until now, I first have to convince them I've exhausted every other option for fixing our current lists -- which means at least trying the update to see if that helps.
I'll look at the list of Mailman hosts to see if I can find something more affordable -- I would certainly love to outsource this task if I could -- but I'm still hoping to connect with someone who can assist me with the upgrade.
Many thanks, Nina
Nina Nicholson Director of Communications & Technology The Episcopal Diocese of Newark 973-430-9907 http://dioceseofnewark.org http://facebook.com/dionewark http://twitter.com/dionewark
-----Original Message----- From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+nnicholson=dioceseofnewark.org@python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 9:02 PM To: mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] need assistance upgrading Mailman
On 08/23/2015 04:45 PM, Nina Nicholson wrote:
I manage 70+ Mailman listservs for the Episcopal Diocese of Newark, and we are having terrible problems with emails not being delivered because they fail DMARC Evaluation, to the point that it's disrupting communications in the diocese.
Please see <http://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20is%20not%20Listserv>
Our listservs are hosted by MediaTemple which provides Mailman ver. 2.1.9. I understand that if I were to upgrade to the latest version there are new features that would solve this problem. I've found the upgrade instructions (http://wiki.list.org/DOC/4.80%20How%20do%20I%20upgrade%20from%20Mailman%202....) but they are beyond my limited Unix skills. MediaTemple refuses to do the upgrade.
Do you have a VPS with Mailman installed or are you on a shared host? If the latter, it is unlikely that you have the access necessary to upgrade Mailman on the host and it is unlikely that MediaTemple would be happy with your doing it even if you could.
You may wish to see <http://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services>. I have no information on most of these, but based on interactions with the proprietor of EMWD and dotList, I can recommend them. This should not be construed as a negative review of anyone else on that list. It's just that I have no basis to evaluate most of them.
You may also find <http://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20consulting%20services> of interest. Particularly the link to the Python jobs board.
Finally, you may wish to try one of the suggestions at <http://wiki.list.org/x/17891458> as an interim stopgap measure.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/nnicholson%40dioceseof...
Hi Nina:
I actually pointed you to our Cloud VPS service where we can setup Mailman on it and assist you with the migration of your lists. With as many lists as you have, our VPS service is for more affordable an option.
Brian Carpenter Owner
Providing Cloud Services and more for over 15 years.
T: 336.755.0685 E: brian@emwd.com www.emwd.com
Nina Nicholson wrote:
I have a dedicated virtual server with a shell login account and am allowed to update it. Unfortunately, my Unix skills are minimal and not up to attempting this on my own. I have managed other installations on my server when >being walked through it, remotely, by an experienced person.
Looking at your host (lists.dionewark.org) seems to suggest you are using Plesk as the control panel, are you using Mailman as part of that? If so, you will need to discuss this with Plesk, as the Mailman installation is customised as part of the control panel and is not from the stock Mailman distribution. The CPanel control panel system which is one of Plesk's competitors ships with the latest version of Mailman, so that could be an option if you want to stick to using the control panel, but migration between the control panels may be slightly complex.
Look here: http://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20Plesk
Is that host doing anything else or is it hosting lists only?
Thanks. Andrew.
Andrew - I am using Plesk, and Mailman does interface with it. I didn't realize this is a customized installation -- good to know. That would certainly change things. Thanks for the suggestion of CPanel, I've worked with it elsewhere and can look into it.
Nina Nicholson Director of Communications & Technology The Episcopal Diocese of Newark 973-430-9907 http://dioceseofnewark.org http://facebook.com/dionewark http://twitter.com/dionewark
-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson [mailto:andrew@hodgsonfamily.org] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 1:48 PM To: Nina Nicholson; mailman-users@python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] need assistance upgrading Mailman
Nina Nicholson wrote:
I have a dedicated virtual server with a shell login account and am allowed to update it. Unfortunately, my Unix skills are minimal and not up to attempting this on my own. I have managed other installations on my server when >being walked through it, remotely, by an experienced person.
Looking at your host (lists.dionewark.org) seems to suggest you are using Plesk as the control panel, are you using Mailman as part of that? If so, you will need to discuss this with Plesk, as the Mailman installation is customised as part of the control panel and is not from the stock Mailman distribution. The CPanel control panel system which is one of Plesk's competitors ships with the latest version of Mailman, so that could be an option if you want to stick to using the control panel, but migration between the control panels may be slightly complex.
Look here: http://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20Plesk
Is that host doing anything else or is it hosting lists only?
Thanks. Andrew.
On August 24, 2015 12:44:02 PM PDT, Nina Nicholson <nnicholson@dioceseofnewark.org> wrote:
Andrew - I am using Plesk, and Mailman does interface with it.
According to the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20Plesk>, updating Plesk Mailman from source is "not for the faint of heart".
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> Sent from my Not_an_iThing with standards compliant, open source software.
Mark Sapiro writes:
On August 24, 2015 12:44:02 PM PDT, Nina Nicholson <nnicholson@dioceseofnewark.org> wrote:
IIRC, that FAQ is quite old (like 2008?) At least it mentions Plesk 7 (currently Plesk is at 12+ it seems, with 11.x still in support). According to this thread:
http://forum.odin.com/threads/fix-for-mailman-posts-being-rejected-due-to-ya...
from a year ago, at least on Linux Plesk can use the OS distro package for Mailman. So it *may* be as easy as "yum update mailman; mchk" as the thread suggests. MediaTemple (Nina's hosting service) documents Plesk's "mchk" command here:
https://mediatemple.net/community/products/dv/204404814/how-do-i-rebuild-my-...
OTOH, if MediaTemple is still on Mailman as old as 2.1.9, there may be a pile of dependencies (most importantly, python) that are need to be upgraded as well. Besides dependencies like Python, the DMARC-aware Mailman versions provide new handlers as separate modules IIRC. Since Plesk's APS packaging standard includes a complete manifest of package files (path, size, SHA1), that could upset it.
Of course all the above is guesswork; it would be nice if someone with Plesk experience could confirm.
Steve
FTR, I've updated the FAQ 6.15 to refer to this thread:
http://forum.odin.com/threads/fix-for-mailman-posts-being-rejected-due-to-ya...
Steve
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 03:32:04PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
FWIW, if it's RHEL 5 or 6, I got them to backport the DMARC fixes. So, if it's 2.1.9 because it's the RH version, you might be in luck.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1095359 EL6: https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2015-1417.html EL5: https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHBA-2015-0706.html
w
Nina Nicholson writes:
Yes. They don't completely solve the problem, but they provide a level of mitigation that is satisfactory for most lists.
I assume you have the necessary access (a shell login account, and permissions to install software) to the server to do the upgrade. It should be a straightforward operation for an experienced Mailman admin, so hiring a consultant should be an inexpensive and quick way to improve your service.
For the long run, I would suggest considering a specialist host if you don't want to take on a permanent Unix admin or put a consultant on retainer. Mail services require quite a bit of finicky configuration, more so than pretty much any other Internet service. There is active research on protecting mail service from spam and phishing going on, and no guarantee that there won't be further adjustments needed in the future. There are plenty of inexpensive hosts out there, and you don't necessarily need to move your other services.
Steve
On 08/23/2015 04:45 PM, Nina Nicholson wrote:
I manage 70+ Mailman listservs for the Episcopal Diocese of Newark, and we are having terrible problems with emails not being delivered because they fail DMARC Evaluation, to the point that it's disrupting communications in the diocese.
Please see <http://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20is%20not%20Listserv>
Our listservs are hosted by MediaTemple which provides Mailman ver. 2.1.9. I understand that if I were to upgrade to the latest version there are new features that would solve this problem. I've found the upgrade instructions (http://wiki.list.org/DOC/4.80%20How%20do%20I%20upgrade%20from%20Mailman%202....) but they are beyond my limited Unix skills. MediaTemple refuses to do the upgrade.
Do you have a VPS with Mailman installed or are you on a shared host? If the latter, it is unlikely that you have the access necessary to upgrade Mailman on the host and it is unlikely that MediaTemple would be happy with your doing it even if you could.
You may wish to see <http://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services>. I have no information on most of these, but based on interactions with the proprietor of EMWD and dotList, I can recommend them. This should not be construed as a negative review of anyone else on that list. It's just that I have no basis to evaluate most of them.
You may also find <http://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20consulting%20services> of interest. Particularly the link to the Python jobs board.
Finally, you may wish to try one of the suggestions at <http://wiki.list.org/x/17891458> as an interim stopgap measure.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Thanks all for your quick replies.
Duly noted: Mailman lists are not Listservs. Also, not all tissues are Kleenex and not all adhesive tape is Scotch Tape -- but these copyrighted names all tend to get used as generic terms. :)
I have a dedicated virtual server with a shell login account and am allowed to update it. Unfortunately, my Unix skills are minimal and not up to attempting this on my own. I have managed other installations on my server when being walked through it, remotely, by an experienced person.
I looked at pricing for http://www.emwd.com, and at $4.50 per month per list, with 70+ lists, this would cost us in excess of $3780/year. We're a religious organization with the budget to match -- before I can get Diocesan Council to approve that type of budget increase for something we've had for free up until now, I first have to convince them I've exhausted every other option for fixing our current lists -- which means at least trying the update to see if that helps.
I'll look at the list of Mailman hosts to see if I can find something more affordable -- I would certainly love to outsource this task if I could -- but I'm still hoping to connect with someone who can assist me with the upgrade.
Many thanks, Nina
Nina Nicholson Director of Communications & Technology The Episcopal Diocese of Newark 973-430-9907 http://dioceseofnewark.org http://facebook.com/dionewark http://twitter.com/dionewark
-----Original Message----- From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+nnicholson=dioceseofnewark.org@python.org] On Behalf Of Mark Sapiro Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 9:02 PM To: mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] need assistance upgrading Mailman
On 08/23/2015 04:45 PM, Nina Nicholson wrote:
I manage 70+ Mailman listservs for the Episcopal Diocese of Newark, and we are having terrible problems with emails not being delivered because they fail DMARC Evaluation, to the point that it's disrupting communications in the diocese.
Please see <http://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20is%20not%20Listserv>
Our listservs are hosted by MediaTemple which provides Mailman ver. 2.1.9. I understand that if I were to upgrade to the latest version there are new features that would solve this problem. I've found the upgrade instructions (http://wiki.list.org/DOC/4.80%20How%20do%20I%20upgrade%20from%20Mailman%202....) but they are beyond my limited Unix skills. MediaTemple refuses to do the upgrade.
Do you have a VPS with Mailman installed or are you on a shared host? If the latter, it is unlikely that you have the access necessary to upgrade Mailman on the host and it is unlikely that MediaTemple would be happy with your doing it even if you could.
You may wish to see <http://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services>. I have no information on most of these, but based on interactions with the proprietor of EMWD and dotList, I can recommend them. This should not be construed as a negative review of anyone else on that list. It's just that I have no basis to evaluate most of them.
You may also find <http://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20consulting%20services> of interest. Particularly the link to the Python jobs board.
Finally, you may wish to try one of the suggestions at <http://wiki.list.org/x/17891458> as an interim stopgap measure.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/nnicholson%40dioceseof...
Hi Nina:
I actually pointed you to our Cloud VPS service where we can setup Mailman on it and assist you with the migration of your lists. With as many lists as you have, our VPS service is for more affordable an option.
Brian Carpenter Owner
Providing Cloud Services and more for over 15 years.
T: 336.755.0685 E: brian@emwd.com www.emwd.com
Nina Nicholson wrote:
I have a dedicated virtual server with a shell login account and am allowed to update it. Unfortunately, my Unix skills are minimal and not up to attempting this on my own. I have managed other installations on my server when >being walked through it, remotely, by an experienced person.
Looking at your host (lists.dionewark.org) seems to suggest you are using Plesk as the control panel, are you using Mailman as part of that? If so, you will need to discuss this with Plesk, as the Mailman installation is customised as part of the control panel and is not from the stock Mailman distribution. The CPanel control panel system which is one of Plesk's competitors ships with the latest version of Mailman, so that could be an option if you want to stick to using the control panel, but migration between the control panels may be slightly complex.
Look here: http://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20Plesk
Is that host doing anything else or is it hosting lists only?
Thanks. Andrew.
Andrew - I am using Plesk, and Mailman does interface with it. I didn't realize this is a customized installation -- good to know. That would certainly change things. Thanks for the suggestion of CPanel, I've worked with it elsewhere and can look into it.
Nina Nicholson Director of Communications & Technology The Episcopal Diocese of Newark 973-430-9907 http://dioceseofnewark.org http://facebook.com/dionewark http://twitter.com/dionewark
-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hodgson [mailto:andrew@hodgsonfamily.org] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 1:48 PM To: Nina Nicholson; mailman-users@python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] need assistance upgrading Mailman
Nina Nicholson wrote:
I have a dedicated virtual server with a shell login account and am allowed to update it. Unfortunately, my Unix skills are minimal and not up to attempting this on my own. I have managed other installations on my server when >being walked through it, remotely, by an experienced person.
Looking at your host (lists.dionewark.org) seems to suggest you are using Plesk as the control panel, are you using Mailman as part of that? If so, you will need to discuss this with Plesk, as the Mailman installation is customised as part of the control panel and is not from the stock Mailman distribution. The CPanel control panel system which is one of Plesk's competitors ships with the latest version of Mailman, so that could be an option if you want to stick to using the control panel, but migration between the control panels may be slightly complex.
Look here: http://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20Plesk
Is that host doing anything else or is it hosting lists only?
Thanks. Andrew.
On August 24, 2015 12:44:02 PM PDT, Nina Nicholson <nnicholson@dioceseofnewark.org> wrote:
Andrew - I am using Plesk, and Mailman does interface with it.
According to the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20Plesk>, updating Plesk Mailman from source is "not for the faint of heart".
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> Sent from my Not_an_iThing with standards compliant, open source software.
Mark Sapiro writes:
On August 24, 2015 12:44:02 PM PDT, Nina Nicholson <nnicholson@dioceseofnewark.org> wrote:
IIRC, that FAQ is quite old (like 2008?) At least it mentions Plesk 7 (currently Plesk is at 12+ it seems, with 11.x still in support). According to this thread:
http://forum.odin.com/threads/fix-for-mailman-posts-being-rejected-due-to-ya...
from a year ago, at least on Linux Plesk can use the OS distro package for Mailman. So it *may* be as easy as "yum update mailman; mchk" as the thread suggests. MediaTemple (Nina's hosting service) documents Plesk's "mchk" command here:
https://mediatemple.net/community/products/dv/204404814/how-do-i-rebuild-my-...
OTOH, if MediaTemple is still on Mailman as old as 2.1.9, there may be a pile of dependencies (most importantly, python) that are need to be upgraded as well. Besides dependencies like Python, the DMARC-aware Mailman versions provide new handlers as separate modules IIRC. Since Plesk's APS packaging standard includes a complete manifest of package files (path, size, SHA1), that could upset it.
Of course all the above is guesswork; it would be nice if someone with Plesk experience could confirm.
Steve
FTR, I've updated the FAQ 6.15 to refer to this thread:
http://forum.odin.com/threads/fix-for-mailman-posts-being-rejected-due-to-ya...
Steve
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 03:32:04PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
FWIW, if it's RHEL 5 or 6, I got them to backport the DMARC fixes. So, if it's 2.1.9 because it's the RH version, you might be in luck.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1095359 EL6: https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2015-1417.html EL5: https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHBA-2015-0706.html
w
Nina Nicholson writes:
Yes. They don't completely solve the problem, but they provide a level of mitigation that is satisfactory for most lists.
I assume you have the necessary access (a shell login account, and permissions to install software) to the server to do the upgrade. It should be a straightforward operation for an experienced Mailman admin, so hiring a consultant should be an inexpensive and quick way to improve your service.
For the long run, I would suggest considering a specialist host if you don't want to take on a permanent Unix admin or put a consultant on retainer. Mail services require quite a bit of finicky configuration, more so than pretty much any other Internet service. There is active research on protecting mail service from spam and phishing going on, and no guarantee that there won't be further adjustments needed in the future. There are plenty of inexpensive hosts out there, and you don't necessarily need to move your other services.
Steve
participants (6)
-
Andrew Hodgson -
Brian Carpenter -
Mark Sapiro -
Nina Nicholson -
Stephen J. Turnbull -
Will Yardley