Re: [Mailman-Developers] How to remove X-Confirm-Reading requests from mail headers distributed by Mailman?
On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 16:02:38 +0200 Brad Knowles brad.knowles@skynet.be wrote:
As I said, this is a slippery slope. Once you start down the path of "But program XYZZY does this, why can't you?!?", it becomes very difficult to get back to the real issue of what features truly are needed, for what reason, and what size of community would best be served by focusing on what work.
Past an early point an easy distinguishing factor is:
Are you interested in it enough to write a patch?
Are you interested in it enough to maintain a patch?
-- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
Past an early point an easy distinguishing factor is:
Are you interested in it enough to write a patch?
Are you interested in it enough to maintain a patch?
To whom you address these questions? Why do you assume that everyone knows Python? I assist Mailman community as I can, i.e. by giving my advice and my ideas how things could be improved.
ak
Andrzej Kasperowicz wrote:
Past an early point an easy distinguishing factor is:
Are you interested in it enough to write a patch?
Are you interested in it enough to maintain a patch?
To whom you address these questions? Why do you assume that everyone knows Python? I assist Mailman community as I can, i.e. by giving my advice and my ideas how things could be improved.
So you'd rather tell people what to do, rather than do it yourself, because you might have to learn something? Hrmph.
-steTo whom you address these questions? Why do you assume that everyone knows Python? I assist Mailman community as I can, i.e. by giving my advice and my ideas how things could be improved.
So you'd rather tell people what to do, rather than do it yourself, because you might have to learn something? Hrmph.
You must be kidding. Even in middleages people had various occupations. Do you want to move us all to a stoneage? At that time indeed most people could do everything. Well, not quite, men still couldn't give birth. :P
ak
Andrzej Kasperowicz wrote:
To whom you address these questions? Why do you assume that everyone knows Python? I assist Mailman community as I can, i.e. by giving my advice and my ideas how things could be improved.
So you'd rather tell people what to do, rather than do it yourself, because you might have to learn something? Hrmph.
You must be kidding. Even in middleages people had various occupations. Do you want to move us all to a stoneage? At that time indeed most people could do everything. Well, not quite, men still couldn't give birth. :P
If you want something done, and there isn't anyone who has the time, skills or inclination to do it for you, then you either knuckle down and do it yourself, or forget about it. You don't keep hounding someone else to do it.
-steIf you want something done, and there isn't anyone who has the time, skills or inclination to do it for you, then you either knuckle down and
And how could I know that there isn't anyone, huh?
do it yourself, or forget about it. You don't keep hounding someone else to do it.
You are rude. Look what you've just written. You seem to have contempt for users of the program, and that's a very bad thing. Is the mailman for the users or the users for the mailman? There are developers, and users, users can make their wishlist, and developers could see what they can do. If someone can do a patch himself, that's good, but if someone cannot, then telling him to shut up, because he cannot do it himself is just rude and silly.
ak
Guys --
Can we please drop this? It's been beaten into the ground. I don't think the mailman development crew has shown itself well here, either, especially Brad, who seems to be grumpy beyond the needs of the discussion for some reason. I don't think we as a team managing an open source project look good right now, it wasn't handled particularly professionally, IMHO.
and for the record, I tend to disagree with Brad -- I definitely see it as useful to be able to strip out headers that cause systems to auto-reply with a return receipt. but since those headers aren't really standardized, it's not as simply as flipping a switch. what I might do, stepping back a couple of steps and looking at it somewhat objectively, is to consider an option that simply strips all non-RFC headers from a message.
But I'm rather surprised to see us blowing off someone's privacy concerns here in the heat of whatever grumpiness people brought to the discussion the last couple of days, and especially doing it as members of the Mailman team the way we did. All of the points made are relevant, the way they were made was, well, IMHO less than optimal.
so maybe we should all shut up and let this cool off. Maybe reconsider the idea once the emotion's drained a bit. But right now, we're not doing anyone any good on anything.
On 2004-04-04 at 11:01:22-07 Chuq Von Rospach chuqui@plaidworks.com wrote:
I definitely see it as useful to be able to strip out headers that cause systems to auto-reply with a return receipt.
IMHO, this statement can be shortened to "I definitely think it would be useful to strip out arbitrary headers."
Case in point: we use SpamAssassin to analyze and tag incoming email (meaning, email received from external sites). All scanned messages receive an "X-Spam-Status" header; messages which scored as probable spam also receive an "X-Spam-Level" header. This permits mailing list owners to add this bounce_matching_headers rule:
x-spam-level: \.But we'd like to have these headers removed when the message is distributed to the members of the list.
While I can strip those headers at the MTA level (the combination of sendmail + MIMEDefang is a wonderful thing), it can be tricky to do it correctly. I think it would be cleaner to strip them from within Mailman.
If, at some point in the future, I feel that my Python skills are up to the task, I'll probably take a crack at implementing something like this. But until then (or until someone else beats me to it), I think it's definitely a good idea.
-- James Ralston, Information Technology Software Engineering Institute Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA, USA
participants (5)
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Andrzej Kasperowicz -
Chuq Von Rospach -
J C Lawrence -
James Ralston -
Shaun T. Erickson