Please help. Where do I go to stop Yahoo and all of it's associated ISPs from blacklisting my subscribers, please?
Annette -
On 3/9/23 11:24, annette carter wrote:
Please help. Where do I go to stop Yahoo and all of it's associated ISPs from blacklisting my subscribers, please?
See these FAQ articles:
https://wiki.list.org/x/17891458 https://wiki.list.org/x/17891477 https://wiki.list.org/x/4030690
-- Mark Sapiro mark@msapiro.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
On 3/9/23 16:54, Mark Sapiro wrote:
On 3/9/23 11:24, annette carter wrote:
Please help. Where do I go to stop Yahoo and all of it's associated ISPs from blacklisting my subscribers, please?
See these FAQ articles:
https://wiki.list.org/x/17891458 https://wiki.list.org/x/17891477 https://wiki.list.org/x/4030690
Yahoo is the one that blacklists us the most, lately. I have created a feedback loop with them ala the last wiki Mark listed. So they send me an email alerting me when a member marks a message or digest as spam. I can then find the email address of the offender by looking at that email headers, and then send them a friendly message about how not to mark things as spam or ask if they would like to be unsubscribed. Most mark messages as spam by mistake (according to them).
Of course the first 2 wikis are important to do first.
jd
On 3/9/23 20:03, Jim Dory wrote:
Yahoo is the one that blacklists us the most, lately. I have created a feedback loop with them ala the last wiki Mark listed. So they send me an email alerting me when a member marks a message or digest as spam. I can then find the email address of the offender by looking at that email headers, and then send them a friendly message about how not to mark things as spam or ask if they would like to be unsubscribed. Most mark messages as spam by mistake (according to them).
Yahoo's webmail UI is poorly designed. The Spam and Delete buttons are right next to each other making this easy to do. If they are going to allow marking a message as Spam to affect the sending server's reputation, they should have a confirmation dialog behind the Spam button.
-- Mark Sapiro mark@msapiro.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mark and Jim,
Thank you for the information. I'm not sure exactly which isthe fix for me, I don't want to make things worse. Maybe it will help if Ishared my settings and what I've done so far.
I'm running 11 mm lists 1.2.39 through cPanel. I have a VPS with InMotion Hosting. I have run mm lists for years and remember the problem years ago with some ISPs not playing nice with mm. I thought the current settings I’m using were correct, but WELCOME your assistance.
I do have a yahoo account that is subscribed to 2 of the lists so I am testing from that as well as feedback from list subscribers. Of course, all my domain-related email addresses are getting all the email.
So far, after reading some forum responses I tested just on 1 list with about 10 subscribers (including myself) by setting them to daily digest. Of course, not ideal or wanted, hoping this is temporary until I find a permanent fix. We are receiving the digests.
Under General List Personality:
Replace the From: header address… is set to Munge From
Hide the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address.. is set to No
Reply-to Header Munging:
Should any existing Reply-To: header found in the original message be stripped? is set to Yes
Wher e are replies to list messages directed? Is set to: This list
Additional settings:
Should messages from this mailing list include the RFC 2369 … is set to Yes
Should postings include the List-Post: header? Is set to Yes
Should the Sender header be rewritten for this mailing list to avoid stray bounces? Is set to Yes
Should duplicate avoidance drop addresses from Cc: headers is set to Yes
Privacy Options: Membership Exposure:
Who can view subscription list? Is set to List Members
Show member addresses so they're not directly recognizable as email addresses? Is set to Yes
Member filters
Action to take when anyone posts to the list from a domain with a DMARC Reject/Quarantine Policy. Is set to Accept
Shall the above dmarc_moderation_action apply to messages From: domains with DMARC p=quarantine as well as p=reject? Is wet to Accept
Shall the above dmarc_moderation_action apply to messages From: domains with DMARC p=none as well as p=quarantine and p=reject. Is set to No * * Will changing this to Yes help???
Bounce Processing:
Should Mailman perform automatic bounce processing? Is set to Yes
The maximum member bounce score before the member's subscription is disabled. This value can be a floating point number. Is set to 5.0
The number of days after which a member's bounce information is discarded, if no new bounces have been received in the interim. This value must be an integer. Is set to 7
How many Your Membership Is Disabled warnings a disabled member should get before their address is removed from the mailing list. Set to 0 to immediately remove an address from the list once their bounce score exceeds the threshold. This value must be an integer.. I set to 3
The number of days between sending the Your Membership Is Disabled warnings. This value must be an integer . Is set to 7
Notifications
Fromthis, can you see anything needing to be changed? Anything on the server Ishould be checking?
Iappreciate all the prompt assistance.
Annette
On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 08:26:06 PM PST, Jim Dory <james@dorydesign.com> wrote: On 3/9/23 16:54, Mark Sapiro wrote:
On 3/9/23 11:24, annette carter wrote:
Please help. Where do I go to stop Yahoo and all of it's associated ISPs from blacklisting my subscribers, please?
See these FAQ articles:
https://wiki.list.org/x/17891458 https://wiki.list.org/x/17891477 https://wiki.list.org/x/4030690
Yahoo is the one that blacklists us the most, lately. I have created a feedback loop with them ala the last wiki Mark listed. So they send me an email alerting me when a member marks a message or digest as spam. I can then find the email address of the offender by looking at that email headers, and then send them a friendly message about how not to mark things as spam or ask if they would like to be unsubscribed. Most mark messages as spam by mistake (according to them).
Of course the first 2 wikis are important to do first.
jd
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/ Member address: annette.carter@pacbell.net
On 3/10/23 10:30, annette carter wrote:
- I'm running 11 mm lists 1.2.39 through cPanel. I have a VPS with InMotion Hosting. I have run mm lists for years and remember the problem years ago with some ISPs not playing nice with mm. I thought the current settings I’m using were correct, but WELCOME your assistance.
I thing what you reported is good. ...
- Replace the From: header address… is set to Munge From
That should cover DMARC.
The rest of what you reported are not really relevant to mail delivery.
The remaining things are your mail server should have full circle DNS, your domain should publish an SPF record allowing your mail server as a sender and your outgoing mail should be DKIM signed by your domain.
All these things are controlled by configuration in your VPS, not by Mailman. Whoever admins the VPS should verify all these things. There are tools at https://mxtoolbox.com/diagnostic.aspx for checking DNS, https://mxtoolbox.com/spf.aspx for checking SPF and https://mxtoolbox.com/blacklists.aspx for checking blacklists
The FAQ at https://wiki.list.org/x/4030690 which I mentioned before has some information which may be helpful.
-- Mark Sapiro mark@msapiro.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Annette:
There is nothing wrong with your settings. Yahoo mail (and that includes @aol.com, @netscape.com, and @verizon.com, and maybe some others) is just problematic. Between a UI that makes it too easy for users to mark messages as spam and the fact that when someone marks something as spam, Yahoo is likely to blacklist the source. Also, *sometimes* Yahoo's servers get behind and start not accepting mail, whether it is spam or not. Yahoo mail has gone seriously downhill as a service provider. The *best* advice is to suggest that your @yahoo, @aol, @netscape, and @verizon members to change to a different provider. (Even Outlook.com [Microsoft] is better than Yahoo.)
At Fri, 10 Mar 2023 18:30:30 +0000 (UTC) annette carter annette.carter@pacbell.net wrote:
Mark and Jim,
Thank you for the information. I'm not sure exactly which isthe fix for me, I don't want to make things worse. Maybe it will help if Ishared my settings and what I've done so far.
I'm running 11 mm lists 1.2.39 through cPanel. I have a VPS with InMotion Hosting. I have run mm lists for years and remember the problem years ago with some ISPs not playing nice with mm. I thought the current settings Iâm using were correct, but WELCOME your assistance.
I do have a yahoo account that is subscribed to 2 of the lists so I am testing from that as well as feedback from list subscribers. Of course, all my domain-related email addresses are getting all the email.
So far, after reading some forum responses I tested just on 1 list with about 10 subscribers (including myself) by setting them to daily digest. Of course, not ideal or wanted, hoping this is temporary until I find a permanent fix. We are receiving the digests.
Under General List Personality:
Replace the From: header address⦠is set to Munge From
Hide the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address.. is set to No
Reply-to Header Munging:
Should any existing Reply-To: header found in the original message be stripped? is set to Yes
Wher e are replies to list messages directed? Is set to: This list
Additional settings:
Should messages from this mailing list include the RFC 2369 ⦠is set to Yes
Should postings include the List-Post: header? Is set to Yes
Should the Sender header be rewritten for this mailing list to avoid stray bounces? Is set to Yes
Should duplicate avoidance drop addresses from Cc: headers is set to Yes
Privacy Options: Membership Exposure:
Who can view subscription list? Is set to List Members
Show member addresses so they're not directly recognizable as email addresses? Is set to Yes
Member filters
Action to take when anyone posts to the list from a domain with a DMARC Reject/Quarantine Policy. Is set to Accept
Shall the above dmarc_moderation_action apply to messages From: domains with DMARC p=quarantine as well as p=reject? Is wet to Accept
Shall the above dmarc_moderation_action apply to messages From: domains with DMARC p=none as well as p=quarantine and p=reject. Is set to No * * Will changing this to Yes help???
Bounce Processing:
Should Mailman perform automatic bounce processing? Is set to Yes
The maximum member bounce score before the member's subscription is disabled. This value can be a floating point number. Is set to 5.0Â
The number of days after which a member's bounce information is discarded, if no new bounces have been received in the interim. This value must be an integer. Â Is set to 7
How many Your Membership Is Disabled warnings a disabled member should get before their address is removed from the mailing list. Set to 0 to immediately remove an address from the list once their bounce score exceeds the threshold. This value must be an integer.. I set to 3Â Â
The number of days between sending the Your Membership Is Disabled warnings. This value must be an integer . Is set to 7
Notifications
 All four options are set to Yes.
Fromthis, can you see anything needing to be changed? Anything on the server Ishould be checking?
Iappreciate all the prompt assistance.
Annette
On Thursday, March 9, 2023 at 08:26:06 PM PST, Jim Dory <james@dorydesign.com> wrote:On 3/9/23 16:54, Mark Sapiro wrote:
On 3/9/23 11:24, annette carter wrote:
Please help. Where do I go to stop Yahoo and all of it's associated ISPs from blacklisting my subscribers, please?
See these FAQ articles:
https://wiki.list.org/x/17891458 https://wiki.list.org/x/17891477 https://wiki.list.org/x/4030690
Yahoo is the one that blacklists us the most, lately. I have created a feedback loop with them ala the last wiki Mark listed. So they send me an email alerting me when a member marks a message or digest as spam. I can then find the email address of the offender by looking at that email headers, and then send them a friendly message about how not to mark things as spam or ask if they would like to be unsubscribed. Most mark messages as spam by mistake (according to them).
Of course the first 2 wikis are important to do first.
jd
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ Â Â https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/ Member address: annette.carter@pacbell.net
Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-leave@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/ Member address: heller@deepsoft.com
-- Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364 Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services
On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 4:46 AM annette carter annette.carter@pacbell.net wrote:
Please help. Where do I go to stop Yahoo and all of it's associated ISPs from blacklisting my subscribers, please?
I had this much trouble with Yahoo that the solution was to urge/nudge all subscribers to open a Gmail account and use it for the Mailing List. They could forward the emails from within Gmail to Yahoo if they wanted. It was a way that used diplomatic force to help me maintain my sanity. As you can imagine, I am not the one who drafted that email. We gave them 15 days to decide on the change, after which we were simply unsubscribing them. Guess what? Everyone obliged and changed! They were just a handful - about 140 users
Before that, using Exim as the MTA, I had a special purpose router and transport to handle mail to Yahoo domains and it's siblings:
# Special Purpose Router to throttle sending e-mails to Yahoo & Siblings
who are a PITA :)
outbound_throttled:
driver = dnslookup
domains = \N^yahoo\.\N : rocketmail.com : ymail.com : y7mail.com : \
btinternet.com : btopenworld.com : verizon.net : aol.com : gmail.com
retry_use_local_part
transport = throttled_smtp
# Transport
throttled_smtp:
driver = smtp
connection_max_messages = 5
max_rcpt = 5
serialize_hosts = *
retry_use_local_part
hosts_avoid_pipelining = *
tls_verify_cert_hostnames = !*
The fact that we were DKIM-signing the emails from the ML did not help much. Delivery to Yahoo and it siblings would take even two days and most would fail. For starters, maybe you can implement the above Exim transport strategy in your MTA.
HTH
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-)
participants (5)
-
annette carter -
Jim Dory -
Mark Sapiro -
Odhiambo Washington -
Robert Heller