subscribed address that forwards to secondary address can't be identified
Hello all,
This is not necessarily a Mailman question, but I thought someone administering Mailman may have come across this before.
A person is receiving mail through a list. The address that they are currently using (@gmail.com) is not subscribed to the list. I assume that means a subscribed address is forwarding to the gmail account. The gmail account people don't have any idea what they could have been subscribed as. I thought maybe the Mailman or MTA logs would show the susbscribed address forwarding to the gmail address. However, I can't find anything, so can't identify which address is the culprit.
Does anyone have an idea how to get to the bottom of this?
-- Christopher Adams adamsca@gmail.com
On 04/04/2014 02:29 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:
A person is receiving mail through a list. The address that they are currently using (@gmail.com) is not subscribed to the list. I assume that means a subscribed address is forwarding to the gmail account. The gmail account people don't have any idea what they could have been subscribed as. I thought maybe the Mailman or MTA logs would show the susbscribed address forwarding to the gmail address. However, I can't find anything, so can't identify which address is the culprit.
Does anyone have an idea how to get to the bottom of this?
The first step is to examine the Received: headers of the post as received by the gmail user. This may tell you exactly what address Mailman sent to. If not, it will tell you what MX server the message went to from the Mailman server which will help narrow the possibilities.
There's no way that Mailman or probably even your local MTA can know that any particular address they send to ultimately forwards to gmail.
If all else fails, and you have the ability, you can enable Mailman's VERP. Then each message from Mailman will have the envelope from and Sender: and Errors-To: headers with the address LISTNAME-bounces-user=example.com@your.domain where user@example.com is the address sent to.
-- Mark Sapiro mark@msapiro.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
VERP will nail the problem quickly. I have relatively small lists on my server and leave VERP turned on. This also helps eliminate complaining AOL subscribers since AOL often doesn't redact VERPed addresses in their TOS notifications.
On Fri, 2014-04-04 at 14:44 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
If all else fails, and you have the ability, you can enable Mailman's VERP. Then each message from Mailman will have the envelope from and Sender: and Errors-To: headers with the address LISTNAME-bounces-user=example.com@your.domain where user@example.com is the address sent to.
-- Lindsay Haisley | "Everything works if you let it" FMP Computer Services | 512-259-1190 | --- The Roadie http://www.fmp.com |
Thank you all for your suggestions. I have set up VERP via Mailman in mm_cfg.py. I logged in to the list admin and followed guidelines about enabling Personalization. I referred to this:
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030545
I may be missing something, but I don't see anything under 'Non-digest options' for enabling Personalization. Does it just refer to custom headers, footers, etc? It seems that you can do that anyways without the setting allowing Personalization in mm_cfg.py. Also, when enabling something in mm_cfg.py, the guidelines say to use 1=true/yes, but then I see it looking something like the following. Maybe this is part of the problem. I would appreciate some clarification. Thank you.
VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 9:48 AM, Lindsay Haisley fmouse@fmp.com wrote:
VERP will nail the problem quickly. I have relatively small lists on my server and leave VERP turned on. This also helps eliminate complaining AOL subscribers since AOL often doesn't redact VERPed addresses in their TOS notifications.
On Fri, 2014-04-04 at 14:44 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
If all else fails, and you have the ability, you can enable Mailman's VERP. Then each message from Mailman will have the envelope from and Sender: and Errors-To: headers with the address LISTNAME-bounces-user=example.com@your.domain where user@example.com is the address sent to.
-- Lindsay Haisley | "Everything works if you let it" FMP Computer Services | 512-259-1190 | --- The Roadie http://www.fmp.com |
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/adamsca%40gmail.com
-- Christopher Adams adamsca@gmail.com
Ok, I think I have what I need. I checked the mail logs and see that the header is showing the list name and the subscriber address. Now, I need to see what happens when I set a forward and send a message.
On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Christopher Adams adamsca@gmail.comwrote:
Thank you all for your suggestions. I have set up VERP via Mailman in mm_cfg.py. I logged in to the list admin and followed guidelines about enabling Personalization. I referred to this:
http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030545
I may be missing something, but I don't see anything under 'Non-digest options' for enabling Personalization. Does it just refer to custom headers, footers, etc? It seems that you can do that anyways without the setting allowing Personalization in mm_cfg.py. Also, when enabling something in mm_cfg.py, the guidelines say to use 1=true/yes, but then I see it looking something like the following. Maybe this is part of the problem. I would appreciate some clarification. Thank you.
VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 9:48 AM, Lindsay Haisley fmouse@fmp.com wrote:
VERP will nail the problem quickly. I have relatively small lists on my server and leave VERP turned on. This also helps eliminate complaining AOL subscribers since AOL often doesn't redact VERPed addresses in their TOS notifications.
On Fri, 2014-04-04 at 14:44 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
If all else fails, and you have the ability, you can enable Mailman's VERP. Then each message from Mailman will have the envelope from and Sender: and Errors-To: headers with the address LISTNAME-bounces-user=example.com@your.domain where user@example.com is the address sent to.
-- Lindsay Haisley | "Everything works if you let it" FMP Computer Services | 512-259-1190 | --- The Roadie http://www.fmp.com |
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/adamsca%40gmail.com
-- Christopher Adams adamsca@gmail.com
-- Christopher Adams adamsca@gmail.com
On 04/07/2014 12:24 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:
I may be missing something, but I don't see anything under 'Non-digest options' for enabling Personalization. Does it just refer to custom headers, footers, etc? It seems that you can do that anyways without the setting allowing Personalization in mm_cfg.py. Also, when enabling something in mm_cfg.py, the guidelines say to use 1=true/yes, but then I see it looking something like the following. Maybe this is part of the problem. I would appreciate some clarification. Thank you.
VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = Yes
OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
If you have set
OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
in mm_cfg.py, the second setting under Non-digest options should be
Should Mailman personalize each non-digest delivery? This is often useful for announce-only lists, but read the details section for a discussion of important performance issues. (Details for personalize)
No Yes Full Personalization
These additional replacements for msg_header and msg_footer are only available if personalize is Yes or Full
user_address - The address of the user, coerced to lower case.
user_delivered_to - The case-preserved address that the user issubscribed with. user_password - The user's password. user_name - The user's full name. user_optionsurl - The url to the user's option page.
Read the Details link for more.
Yes/No things in mm_cfg.py can be set to Yes or No as these are defined appropriately in Defaults.py as are On and Off.
-- Mark Sapiro mark@msapiro.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Does it arrive as a forward? If so, it might be possible to view the entire message header and trace it that way. Web-based email being what it is, I don't know how much or little gmail retains of the message headers of forwards or whether gmail allows those message headers to be inspected. If the gmail web interface doesn't permit viewing the message headers, gmail may allow the message to be saved as text and I'm guessing that would typically include the full message headers.
Best Regards,
Mike
Mike Starr, Writer Technical Writer - Online Help Developer - WordPress Websites Graphic Designer - Desktop Publisher - Custom Microsoft Word templates (262) 694-1028 - mike@writestarr.com - http://www.writestarr.com President - Working Writers of Wisconsin http://www.workingwriters.org/
On 4/4/2014 4:29 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:
Hello all,
This is not necessarily a Mailman question, but I thought someone administering Mailman may have come across this before.
A person is receiving mail through a list. The address that they are currently using (@gmail.com) is not subscribed to the list. I assume that means a subscribed address is forwarding to the gmail account. The gmail account people don't have any idea what they could have been subscribed as. I thought maybe the Mailman or MTA logs would show the susbscribed address forwarding to the gmail address. However, I can't find anything, so can't identify which address is the culprit.
Does anyone have an idea how to get to the bottom of this?
On 4/4/2014 4:29 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:
Hello all,
This is not necessarily a Mailman question, but I thought someone administering Mailman may have come across this before.
A person is receiving mail through a list. The address that they are currently using (@gmail.com) is not subscribed to the list. I assume that means a subscribed address is forwarding to the gmail account. The gmail account people don't have any idea what they could have been subscribed as. I thought maybe the Mailman or MTA logs would show the susbscribed address forwarding to the gmail address. However, I can't find anything, so can't identify which address is the culprit.
Does anyone have an idea how to get to the bottom of this?
Get a copy of the mail as received and look at the RFC 5322 mail headers. Those headers should give the entire mail path, and one of the "Received" lines may have a "for user@example.com" piece.
--Barry Finkel
Christopher Adams writes:
A person is receiving mail through a list. The address that they are currently using (@gmail.com) is not subscribed to the list.
Change your list to personalize the message, specifically to add a link to the user's personal options page in the footer.
Of course you can't always do that, depending on the purpose of the list, but that's one possible way to investigate (and solve, if the person wants to unsubscribe themselves!) the issue.
This isn't the best solution for sure, but I start disecting and searching list members till I find something that's close...it usually works for that instance.
If I have jan.murphy@somewhere.us.mail.com, I'll find all my "jan", "murphy", 'Somewhere" and usually I find the culprit.
If I fail there, I send the person an email and ask if there is an old email that could be forwarding to the new email.
w
Wayne Cook wcook@mycoachonline.com http://www.mycoachonline.com/
I've flown faster than the speed of sound, stared down a shark while standing on the ocean floor and launched men into space. Care to join me tomorrow?
On Apr 4, 2014, at 4:29 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:
Hello all,
This is not necessarily a Mailman question, but I thought someone administering Mailman may have come across this before.
A person is receiving mail through a list. The address that they are currently using (@gmail.com) is not subscribed to the list. I assume that means a subscribed address is forwarding to the gmail account. The gmail account people don't have any idea what they could have been subscribed as. I thought maybe the Mailman or MTA logs would show the susbscribed address forwarding to the gmail address. However, I can't find anything, so can't identify which address is the culprit.
Does anyone have an idea how to get to the bottom of this?
-- Christopher Adams adamsca@gmail.com
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/wcook%40mycoachonline....
On 4/4/14, 5:29 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:
Hello all,
This is not necessarily a Mailman question, but I thought someone administering Mailman may have come across this before.
A person is receiving mail through a list. The address that they are currently using (@gmail.com) is not subscribed to the list. I assume that means a subscribed address is forwarding to the gmail account. The gmail account people don't have any idea what they could have been subscribed as. I thought maybe the Mailman or MTA logs would show the susbscribed address forwarding to the gmail address. However, I can't find anything, so can't identify which address is the culprit.
Does anyone have an idea how to get to the bottom of this?
One tool to do this is the monthly password reminders (if enabled). This will send an email to every user, giving them the email address they are subscribed with and their password (I wish there was a way to make the monthly messages NOT have the password, but when sent as a password reminder include the password).
Otherwise, it is a matter of just looking through the list of subscribers trying to find out what address might be theirs. Sometimes asking them for as many of their previous email addresses that they can remember to look for things like can give you leads.
-- Richard Damon
participants (8)
-
Barry S. Finkel -
Christopher Adams -
Lindsay Haisley -
Mark Sapiro -
Mike Starr -
Richard Damon -
Stephen J. Turnbull -
Wayne Cook