I've come across some wierdness with beta3 and the monthly password reminders.
It seems the SMTP envelopes and some of the headers don't relate to the list or lists that subscribers are being reminded about...
e.g. at home, I have a list called "sandpit" which this month's password reminders have _all_ got as their SMTP envelopes, even people who aren't on that list got the List-Id: set as that list's details...
Should this be the case?
Regards, Matthew
-- Matthew Frost http://www.frost.org/ email: matthew@frost.org "F Invalid file name, 10:1"
At 10:21 AM +0100 7/1/00, Matthew Frost wrote:
e.g. at home, I have a list called "sandpit" which this month's password reminders have _all_ got as their SMTP envelopes, even people who aren't on that list got the List-Id: set as that list's details...
Should this be the case?
This has been mulled over, with no good answer. There is no "right" answer, either in terms of standards or common usage. The password reminder isn't a list message, but instead a server message, so I think using a List-ID for a list is questionable (my suggestion is a List-ID identifying the server...), but other than that, I think the headers are correct, and the List-ID stuff is open to all sorts of interpretations.
-- Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui@plaidworks.com) Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq@apple.com)
And they sit at the bar and put bread in my jar and say 'Man, what are you doing here?'"
On Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 07:24:22AM -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
This has been mulled over, with no good answer. There is no "right" answer, either in terms of standards or common usage. The password reminder isn't a list message, but instead a server message, so I think using a List-ID for a list is questionable (my suggestion is a List-ID identifying the server...), but other than that, I think the headers are correct, and the List-ID stuff is open to all sorts of interpretations.
Hmmmm,
I've just had another mailman reminder turn up from a list server who appear to have converted in the last month...
The "From:" line was correct, containing "mailman-owner@"
The SMTP envelope contained "mm-test-admin@"
Surely this should be "mailman-owner" too?
Regards, Matthew
-- Matthew Frost http://www.frost.org/ email: matthew@frost.org
"N Statement lost, 10:1"I've just had another mailman reminder turn up from a list server who appear to have converted in the last month...
The "From:" line was correct, containing "mailman-owner@"
The SMTP envelope contained "mm-test-admin@"
Surely this should be "mailman-owner" too?
Just had a chance to look at this...
this header is correct.
From: mailman-owner@newboy.plaidworks.com
These headers are arguably incorrect, because they refer to a list, not the server. Since we aren't sending this out from a list, attaching them to a list is incorrect. Or, it *might* be correct if the user is subscribed to a single list, but it's really not what ought to happen in the general case.
Return-Path: <test-admin@newboy.plaidworks.com> Sender: test-admin@newboy.plaidworks.com Errors-To: test-admin@newboy.plaidworks.com X-BeenThere: test@newboy.plaidworks.com List-Id: this is a test. This is only a test. <test.newboy.plaidworks.com>
Instead, I recommend:
Return-Path: <mailman-owner@newboy.plaidworks.com> Sender: mailman-owner@newboy.plaidworks.com Errors-To: mailman-owner@newboy.plaidworks.com X-BeenThere: mailman@newboy.plaidworks.com List-Id: <newboy.plaidworks.com>
On the other hand, this probably breaks bounce processing (although I'm not sure if this message is properly handled by bounce processing, anyway. But this monthly reminder can be a key way ot cleaning up mail lists without VERP if it's used properly...)
-- Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui@plaidworks.com) Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq@apple.com)
And they sit at the bar and put bread in my jar and say 'Man, what are you doing here?'"
On Tue, Jul 04, 2000 at 09:50:37PM -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
Instead, I recommend:
Return-Path: <mailman-owner@newboy.plaidworks.com> Sender: mailman-owner@newboy.plaidworks.com Errors-To: mailman-owner@newboy.plaidworks.com X-BeenThere: mailman@newboy.plaidworks.com List-Id: <newboy.plaidworks.com>
On the other hand, this probably breaks bounce processing (although I'm not sure if this message is properly handled by bounce processing, anyway. But this monthly reminder can be a key way ot cleaning up mail lists without VERP if it's used properly...)
Ah yes.
mailman-owner is usually a human and so this probably would break bounce processing because any bounced mail would be sent there instead. Should there be some generic mailman address that is used for this type of password mailout that can be set up to handle bounces?
Regards, Matthew
-- Matthew Frost http://www.frost.org/ email: matthew@frost.org
"B Integer out of range, 0:1"At 7:38 AM +0100 7/5/00, Matthew Frost wrote:
mailman-owner is usually a human and so this probably would break bounce processing because any bounced mail would be sent there instead. Should there be some generic mailman address that is used for this type of password mailout that can be set up to handle bounces?
Should be, and probably be owner-mailman, so that any mail mailman@ is sent out (at least via sendmail) using that as the envelope address where bounces go.
-- Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui@plaidworks.com) Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq@apple.com)
And they sit at the bar and put bread in my jar and say 'Man, what are you doing here?'"
On Tue, Jul 04, 2000 at 11:49:32PM -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
Should be, and probably be owner-mailman, so that any mail mailman@ is sent out (at least via sendmail) using that as the envelope address where bounces go.
This has been discussed a lot. The first summary that the search engine turned up were some of comments Barry made (back when 2.0 was still called 1.2 :-): http://www.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2000-March/001866.html
I think the having a working user (virtual-host-wide) database would be a very good thing and be the "best" solution.
-- Jim Tittsler, Tokyo Python Starship http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/
i think the same thing is happening on my setup too. i'm running ver 1.1 though.
every month a handfull of password reminders bounce back to mailman-owner@txraves.org because the user is over their quota or their account no longer exists, etc.
every single bounced email has this in its header:
List-Id: Goa/Psychedelic trance in the southern US <sgoa.txraves.org>
i looked at the memberships for that list and so far none of the ppl are subscribed to it. theres 12 lists on the box now and i'm guessing i would have to check out each list to find which ones these bouncing addys are sub'd too. is there a quick way to find out which lists an address is sub'd to?
also, this might have been covered already and i apologize if it has but, why do the reminders have a List-Id: in the header if the reminder is for all the lists on that server?
thanks, and btw, mailman ROCKS! :)
] jordan ] blurr@txraves.org ] http://www.txraves.org/
"a closed mind is a wonderful thing to lose"
----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Frost" <matthewf@orac.frost.net> To: <mailman-users@python.org> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2000 4:21 AM Subject: [Mailman-Users] b3 password reminder wierdness?
I've come across some wierdness with beta3 and the monthly password reminders.
It seems the SMTP envelopes and some of the headers don't relate to the list or lists that subscribers are being reminded about...
e.g. at home, I have a list called "sandpit" which this month's password reminders have _all_ got as their SMTP envelopes, even people who aren't on that list got the List-Id: set as that list's details...
Should this be the case?
Regards, Matthew
-- Matthew Frost http://www.frost.org/ email: matthew@frost.org "F Invalid file name, 10:1"
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participants (4)
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blurr＠txraves.org -
Chuq Von Rospach -
Jim Tittsler -
Matthew Frost