Pain, seeking Mailman/Postfix wisdom
Hi All:
Me:
Solaris 10 Postfix 2.4.6 Mailman 2.1.12rc2 Python 2.4.4 postfix-to-mailman-2.1.py
I have: (2) domain names for the same host, of the form:
namexxx.department.domain.tld (has an A and MX record) nameyyy.department.domain.tld (has a CNAME and MX record)
What I originally hoped for was to host some Mailman lists on my server and still have a handful of user accounts on the server be able to receive email directly. Both the lists and the local users would have the same email address after the @, like so:
listone@namexxx.department.domain.tld
listtwo@namexxx.department.domain.tld
userone@namexxx.department.domain.tld
usertwo@namexxx.department.domain.tld
After studying things for a while it seemed clear that maybe Mailman is not supposed to do that, and that I'd need to add a level to the domain name for Mailman to take over for it's lists, like this?
listone@lists.namexxx.department.domain.tld
^^^^^
userone@namexxx.department.domain.tld
usertwo@namexxx.department.domain.tld
But...
..adding that additional level ('lists') puts me at five levels. I'm trying to keep things as simple looking as can for my users. So, I thought what I could do instead is create a second host name for Mailman to use, like this:
listone@nameyyy.department.domain.tld
listtwo@nameyyy.department.domain.tld
userone@namexxx.department.domain.tld
usertwo@namexxx.department.domain.tld
My 'pain' is coming from frustration and confusion trying to learn Postfix and Mailman well enough to figure out whether I can do any of this or not.
I've been mucking around in the configs of both and trying to follow examples and suggestions in the documentation and from information found by sifting through them Internets with Google ;)
Do any of you have a take on it you would be kind enough to share with me? Thanks very much, for any/all help or advice, comments, etc.
-John
Home: 413-549-7524 Work: 413-545-4326 Cell: 413-530-5445 Amherst, MA Email: johnj@external.umass.edu Web: http://www.umass.edu/rso/outingclub
John Jackson
Solaris 10 Postfix 2.4.6 Mailman 2.1.12rc2 Python 2.4.4 postfix-to-mailman-2.1.py
Don't use postfix-to-mailman-2.1.py. There is no need, and it just makes your situation more complex.
I have: (2) domain names for the same host, of the form:
namexxx.department.domain.tld (has an A and MX record) nameyyy.department.domain.tld (has a CNAME and MX record)
What I originally hoped for was to host some Mailman lists on my server and still have a handful of user accounts on the server be able to receive email directly. Both the lists and the local users would have the same email address after the @, like so:
listone@namexxx.department.domain.tld listtwo@namexxx.department.domain.tld userone@namexxx.department.domain.tld usertwo@namexxx.department.domain.tld
No problem.
<snip>
The whole point of postfix_to_mailman is to avoid requiring aliases, but this doesn't work if you have both lists and local users in the same domain. Mailman has a pretty good facility for automatically maintaining list aliases for Postfix. See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html> for how to set it up. That's all you need to do.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
John Jackson wrote:
I have: (2) domain names for the same host, of the form:
namexxx.department.domain.tld (has an A and MX record) nameyyy.department.domain.tld (has a CNAME and MX record)
First off, you can't mix CNAMEs and MX records. That is prohibited by the RFCs, and most nameservers will refuse to load the entire zone if there is a single error like this.
Moreover, with regards to mail, things don't work as you would expect with CNAMEs. Host names get re-written and all.
With regards to mail, you really, really need to stick to just pure A and MX records. You can have some TXT or other info records, but for the basic types of records, stick to just A and MX.
What I originally hoped for was to host some Mailman lists on my server and still have a handful of user accounts on the server be able to receive email directly. Both the lists and the local users would have the same email address after the @, like so:
listone@namexxx.department.domain.tld listtwo@namexxx.department.domain.tld userone@namexxx.department.domain.tld usertwo@namexxx.department.domain.tld
You can do that, but I don't think you can do it with postfix-to-mailman-2.1.py. Take a look at the installation instructions at <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/>, especially the postfix-specific stuff at <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html>.
My 'pain' is coming from frustration and confusion trying to learn Postfix and Mailman well enough to figure out whether I can do any of this or not.
Both Mailman and postfix have online documentation (see <http://www.list.org/docs.html/> and <http://www.postfix.org/documentation.html>, respectively), as well as FAQs (see <http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Frequently+Asked+Questions> and <http://www.postfix.org/docs.html>, respectively).
We also have an overall wiki page at <http://wiki.list.org/>, and a documents section underneath that (see <http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Home>).
Both groups also have mailing lists to support their software (see <http://www.list.org/lists.html> and <http://www.postfix.org/lists.html>, respectively). You can find out how to search our archives via the instructions in FAQ 1.18 at <http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030520>, and there are links to the searchable archives of the postfix-* mailing lists at that same URL listed above.
I've been mucking around in the configs of both and trying to follow examples and suggestions in the documentation and from information found by sifting through them Internets with Google ;)
These are the primary places to search, and we try to provide good links to other documents that we find online that have helpful information.
However, when you're dealing with two different pieces of software and trying to figure out how you can interface them, it can be difficult to get enough documentation in single place. I find that I learn mostly by trial-and-error, with various documents sitting in front of me.
Do any of you have a take on it you would be kind enough to share with me? Thanks very much, for any/all help or advice, comments, etc.
I think the problem is that there is too much documentation, and it's hard to know where to start. I believe the term is "information overload".
Anyway, if you've got any questions that are not answered by the various sources listed above, please feel free to come back and tell us what you've searched for and what you've found so far, and what your problems are. We'll try to provide whatever help we can.
-- Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org> If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks
On 02/26/2009 06:17:33 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:
I think the problem is that there is too much documentation, and it's
hard to know where to start. I believe the term is "information
overload".
I don't suppose there's an IRC channel related to mailman? I sometimes find that the low latency of IRC makes it a lot easier to clear up my mis-conceptions and set me on track to reading the right docs and so forth. I used to use mailing lists exclusively but now think that chat has it's place.
Karl <kop@meme.com> Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein
Karl O. Pinc wrote:
I don't suppose there's an IRC channel related to mailman?
See the bottom of the page at <http://www.list.org/devs.html>.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mark Sapiro wrote:
Karl O. Pinc wrote:
I don't suppose there's an IRC channel related to mailman?
See the bottom of the page at <http://www.list.org/devs.html>.
D'oh!
/facepalm
-- Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org> If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks
On 02/27/2009 11:21:30 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
Karl O. Pinc wrote:
I don't suppose there's an IRC channel related to mailman?
See the bottom of the page at <http://www.list.org/devs.html>.
That would be #mailman on irc.freenode.net.
Does it make sense to ask user questions there too? The topic message indicates it's a generic mailman channel.
I'm the one who's using browsers that are too old to edit the wiki so either somebody else will have to do it or I'll have to try to remember after I upgrade.
Karl <kop@meme.com> Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein
Karl O. Pinc wrote:
I don't suppose there's an IRC channel related to mailman?
Not that I'm personally familiar with, no.
I sometimes find that the low latency of IRC makes it a lot easier to clear up my mis-conceptions and set me on track to reading the right docs and so forth.
Agreed. IRC is very good for those kinds of things. We use it whenever we're doing maintenance on the python.org systems that needs broad coordination.
I've been in some organizations where it's used to hold virtual board meetings, or where there are board members who are physically present and one of them acts as a gateway to IRC for those folks who can't be there in person.
I used to use mailing lists exclusively but now think that chat has it's place.
Yup.
If you find or create a mailman-users channel somewhere, please let us know so that we can put it into the FAQ, or feel free to put it there yourself.
-- Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org> If you like Jazz/R&B guitar, check out LinkedIn Profile: my friend bigsbytracks on YouTube at <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> http://preview.tinyurl.com/bigsbytracks
participants (4)
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Brad Knowles -
John Jackson -
Karl O. Pinc -
Mark Sapiro