I'm getting a 95% mass bounce action
Hey all,
I've got a problem with Mailman, and I'm unsure as to how to correct it. My host provider runs MailMan 2.1.5. I like it, but the problem I'm having is that I keep getting periodic mass bouncings my list. I get like a 95% "bounce action notification" every three or four weeks. I've got the bounce processor turned off, and all the notifications come to me, so the users are unaware (as far as I can tell). What causes it, is beyond my understanding. I've looked at the posts that are just prior to the mass bounce notificiations, and they don't look any different than any other post.
What, if anything, can I do to try and track this down. I don't mind unbouncing everyone (it's only 60 users or so), but 5 times this month has gotten old.
Granted I'm a user on a hosted system, but the admin's are really laid back, and I've worked closely with them for almost 6 years now. I'm pretty sure they'd take any suggestions for actions very seriously.
Thanks for your ideas,
Dave
David Spake wrote:
I've got a problem with Mailman, and I'm unsure as to how to correct it. My host provider runs MailMan 2.1.5. I like it, but the problem I'm having is that I keep getting periodic mass bouncings my list. I get like a 95% "bounce action notification" every three or four weeks.
And what's in them. Do they contain a copy of the Delivery Status Notification. What does it say?
I've got the bounce processor turned off, and all the notifications come to me, so the users are unaware (as far as I can tell).
I'm not sure why you're seeing anything if bounce processing is turned off for the list. Normally, returned bounces are just discarded if bounce processing is off. Perhaps you're talking about notifications from when bounce processing was on.
What causes it, is beyond my understanding. I've looked at the posts that are just prior to the mass bounce notificiations, and they don't look any different than any other post.
What, if anything, can I do to try and track this down. I don't mind unbouncing everyone (it's only 60 users or so), but 5 times this month has gotten old.
Are you seeing the actual "bounce" notifications that are being returned? If so, they will tell you why the mail is bouncing. Without that information, people can only guess.
If you are getting (have gotten) notifications to the list owner from Mailman, the triggering bounce message should be attached to the notification.
You could also try adjusting the bounce processing settings. If for example, you set bounce_score_threshold to 5.0 and bounce_info_stale_after to 4, then the only people who get disabled will be those who have five or more bounces with no more than 4 days between them. It sounds like your "spurious" bounces don't happen that often, but if you really have a bad address, this should get that as long as you normally get posts every day or two.
-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mark Sapiro wrote:
David Spake wrote:
I've got a problem with Mailman, and I'm unsure as to how to correct it. My host provider runs MailMan 2.1.5. I like it, but the problem I'm having is that I keep getting periodic mass bouncings my list. I get like a 95% "bounce action notification" every three or four weeks.
And what's in them. Do they contain a copy of the Delivery Status Notification. What does it say?
Here is one of the notices (with the email address of the 'notified' person xx'd out):
-- This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice: List: HH_Talk Member: xx@xxxx Action: Subscription disabled. Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces. The triggering bounce notice is attached below. Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at mailman@heartlandhumanists.org.
I've got the headers, and I don't see a Deliver Status Notification specific one. There are a few MailMan headers, but not that specific one.
I've got the bounce processor turned off, and all the notifications come to me, so the users are unaware (as far as I can tell).
I'm not sure why you're seeing anything if bounce processing is turned off for the list. Normally, returned bounces are just discarded if bounce processing is off. Perhaps you're talking about notifications from when bounce processing was on.
Here's the appropriate information from Bounce processing Section:
====== bounce_processing : No bounce_score_threshold: 5.0 bounce_info_stale_after: 0 bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings : 30 bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval : 7 bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner : Yes bounce_notify_owner_on_disable : Yes bounce_notify_owner_on_removal : Yes
<snip>
Are you seeing the actual "bounce" notifications that are being returned? If so, they will tell you why the mail is bouncing. Without that information, people can only guess.
If you are getting (have gotten) notifications to the list owner from Mailman, the triggering bounce message should be attached to the notification.
I get at the bottom of the bounce notification a copy of the email that caused the member to be bounced. Here are a few of the headers:
X-Originating-Email: [g_xxx@msn.com] FROM: [g_xxx@msn.com] X-Return-Path: [g_xxx@msn.com] To: "HH talk" <hh_talk@heartlandhumanists.org>
This is the URL: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167235,00.html
That's it. No other message, or text. Just the URL.
You could also try adjusting the bounce processing settings. If for example, you set bounce_score_threshold to 5.0 and bounce_info_stale_after to 4, then the only people who get disabled will be those who have five or more bounces with no more than 4 days between them. It sounds like your "spurious" bounces don't happen that often, but if you really have a bad address, this should get that as long as you normally get posts every day or two.
I'll try that. I've just moved bounce_info_stale_after to 4, and I'll keep the threshold at 5.0
Thanks for helping me to improve the information, and the config tips.
Dave
David Spake wrote:
Here is one of the notices (with the email address of the 'notified' person xx'd out):
-- This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice: List: HH_Talk Member: xx@xxxx Action: Subscription disabled. Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces. The triggering bounce notice is attached below. Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at mailman@heartlandhumanists.org.
I've got the headers, and I don't see a Deliver Status Notification specific one. There are a few MailMan headers, but not that specific one.
It's not a header. It's the triggering bounce notice which is another e-mail message attached to the one above.
<snip>
I get at the bottom of the bounce notification a copy of the email that caused the member to be bounced. Here are a few of the headers:
X-Originating-Email: [g_xxx@msn.com] FROM: [g_xxx@msn.com] X-Return-Path: [g_xxx@msn.com] To: "HH talk" <hh_talk@heartlandhumanists.org>
This is the URL: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167235,00.html
That's it. No other message, or text. Just the URL.
The copy of the original message is attached to or included in the "triggering bounce notice". Somewhere between the first material you quote and the copy of the original message, there should be the reply from your outgoing MTA or the recipient's MTA indicating why the post wasn't delivered. That's the information that will help diagnose the problem.
-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mark Sapiro wrote:
David Spake wrote:
The copy of the original message is attached to or included in the "triggering bounce notice". Somewhere between the first material you quote and the copy of the original message, there should be the reply from your outgoing MTA or the recipient's MTA indicating why the post wasn't delivered. That's the information that will help diagnose the problem.
Mark,
I really do appreciate the help.
Here's what's so odd about the whole situation, and what really throws me for a curve. The message that shows at the bottom of the first Bounce Notification has been sucessfully posted to the list. It's accepted by MailMan, with a timestamp of 10:55. The very next message I have from the list is the first Bounce Notification, timestamped at 10:57. I have no other messages from the list between 10:55 and 10:57. Then at 10:57 PM, I get the first of 55 or so bounce notifications.
Looking back at the email message, I see the message "The triggering bounce notice is attached below.". For clarity I include the entire message here between the xx's:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:
List: HH_Talk
Member: sxxx@casxxxx.net
Action: Subscription disabled.
Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces.The triggering bounce notice is attached below.
Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at mailman@heartlandhumanists.org.
============================ Subject: [HH_Talk] xxx From: <gxxx@msn.com> Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:55:09 -0500 To: "HH talk" <hh_talk@heartlandhumanists.org> Return-Path: <gxxx@msn.com> Delivered-To: 153-hh_talk@heartlandhumanists.org Received: (qmail 6323 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2005 03:56:54 -0000 Received: from bay11-dav39.bay11.hotmail.com (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.39.69) by human.reason4.us with SMTP; 28 Aug 2005 03:56:54 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 27 Aug 2005 20:56:23 -0700 Message-ID: <BAY11-DAV39DD878AA96566CBBEA448F1AC0@phx.gbl> Received: from 70.245.115.173 by BAY11-DAV39.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 28 Aug 2005 03:56:23 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.245.115.173] X-Originating-Email: [gxxx@msn.com] X-Sender: gxxx@msn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0011.1703 Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:55:10 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Aug 2005 03:56:23.0663 (UTC) FILETIME=[74FBF7F0:01C5AB84] X-BeenThere: hh_talk@heartlandhumanists.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: <hh_talk@heartlandhumanists.org> List-Id: <hh_talk.heartlandhumanists.org> List-Unsubscribe: <snip> List-Archive: <http://lists.heartlandhumanists.org/pipermail/hh_talk> List-Post: <mailto:hh_talk@heartlandhumanists.org> List-Help: <mailto:hh_talk-request@heartlandhumanists.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <snip> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1877034956==" Sender: hh_talk-bounces@heartlandhumanists.org Errors-To: hh_talk-bounces@heartlandhumanists.org
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167235,00.html
============ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
That's it. One last thing I've checked is to see if the Message-ID: of the posted message, and the Message-ID: of the attached "triggering bounce notice" are the same. They are.
Thanks again for your time,
Dave
David Spake wrote:
Here's what's so odd about the whole situation, and what really throws me for a curve.
It confuses me too. See below.
The message that shows at the bottom of the first Bounce Notification has been sucessfully posted to the list. It's accepted by MailMan, with a timestamp of 10:55. The very next message I have from the list is the first Bounce Notification, timestamped at 10:57. I have no other messages from the list between 10:55 and 10:57. Then at 10:57 PM, I get the first of 55 or so bounce notifications.
Looking back at the email message, I see the message "The triggering bounce notice is attached below.". For clarity I include the entire message here between the xx's:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:
List: HH_Talk Member: sxxx@casxxxx.net Action: Subscription disabled. Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces.The triggering bounce notice is attached below.
Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at mailman@heartlandhumanists.org.
============================ Subject: [HH_Talk] xxx From: <gxxx@msn.com> Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:55:09 -0500 To: "HH talk" <hh_talk@heartlandhumanists.org> Return-Path: <gxxx@msn.com> Delivered-To: 153-hh_talk@heartlandhumanists.org Received: (qmail 6323 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2005 03:56:54 -0000 Received: from bay11-dav39.bay11.hotmail.com (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.39.69) by human.reason4.us with SMTP; 28 Aug 2005 03:56:54 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 27 Aug 2005 20:56:23 -0700 Message-ID: <BAY11-DAV39DD878AA96566CBBEA448F1AC0@phx.gbl> Received: from 70.245.115.173 by BAY11-DAV39.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 28 Aug 2005 03:56:23 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.245.115.173] X-Originating-Email: [gxxx@msn.com] X-Sender: gxxx@msn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0011.1703 Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:55:10 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Aug 2005 03:56:23.0663 (UTC) FILETIME=[74FBF7F0:01C5AB84] X-BeenThere: hh_talk@heartlandhumanists.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: <hh_talk@heartlandhumanists.org> List-Id: <hh_talk.heartlandhumanists.org> List-Unsubscribe: <snip> List-Archive: <http://lists.heartlandhumanists.org/pipermail/hh_talk> List-Post: <mailto:hh_talk@heartlandhumanists.org> List-Help: <mailto:hh_talk-request@heartlandhumanists.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <snip> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1877034956==" Sender: hh_talk-bounces@heartlandhumanists.org Errors-To: hh_talk-bounces@heartlandhumanists.org
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167235,00.html
============ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
That's it. One last thing I've checked is to see if the Message-ID: of the posted message, and the Message-ID: of the attached "triggering bounce notice" are the same. They are.
My first point of confusion is you have posted earlier that bounce processing is off. In this case, mail to the listname-bounces address is ignored by Mailman. Are you getting notices like the above with bounce processing off? If so, I don't understand why.
Ignoring that confusion for the moment, the notice you quote above contains a "triggering bounce notice" which is not a delivery status notification. It looks like a post that was sent out from the list and then possibly echoed back to the listname-bounces address by one of the recipients, although there are no Received: headers supporting this notion. Possibly something in your MTA is doing this. Have you checked all your aliases?
I'm also confused as to where the disabled subscribers address (sxxx@casxxxx.net) was picked up as it doesn't seem to be in the notice anywhere although it could be VERPed in the envelope recipient.
Also, where does the 153-hh_talk... address in the Delivered-To: header come from?
What do the rest of the 55 or so notices look like? are they the same except for the address of the disabled user?
-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
participants (2)
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David Spake -
Mark Sapiro