users object to [listname] prefix
I just switched our internal lists over to Mailman (yay!!!!) without making an announcement on the list. The switch went smoothly, once I figured out how to get the old archives into mbox format!
There are now a lot of messages on the list, however, objecting to the [listname] prefix taking up "valuable subject line space". I suspect all of these people are using Microsoft products... anyway, has anyone else had this experience? Has anyone explicitly commended the use of the [listname] prefix? I personally like it, and don't want to change anything. The list has ~500 subscribers, and 5 have so far complained. I could just ignore them... any thoughts?
-- James Strickland Perforce Software
Most people will prefer it, since it will help them visually filter their mailbox more easily. That was added after many real users asked for the feature.
On Thu, Jul 29, 1999 at 09:12:34AM -0700, James Strickland wrote:
I just switched our internal lists over to Mailman (yay!!!!) without making an announcement on the list. The switch went smoothly, once I figured out how to get the old archives into mbox format!
There are now a lot of messages on the list, however, objecting to the [listname] prefix taking up "valuable subject line space". I suspect all of these people are using Microsoft products... anyway, has anyone else had this experience? Has anyone explicitly commended the use of the [listname] prefix? I personally like it, and don't want to change anything. The list has ~500 subscribers, and 5 have so far complained. I could just ignore them... any thoughts?
-- James Strickland Perforce Software
Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users@python.org http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
On Thu, 29 Jul 1999, John Viega wrote:
Most people will prefer it, since it will help them visually filter their mailbox more easily. That was added after many real users asked for the feature.
I should send you the 14 messages totalling 42k of email which the use of
the prefix generated on the list! :-) Many users seemed quite upset.
Only a couple wanted the feature. Remarkable... I personally think it's
useful.
As a compromise I just set the prefix to be a 2 character string rather than the 13 character list name.
Thanks for the feedback! And thanks for Mailman - it's fantastic!
btw, is there anything that can be done about mailers sending bounce messages which Mailman doesn't recognize? Most bounces seem to be handled automatically, but some aren't, and they seem to be all from MS Exchange or Lotus Bloats. Has anyone else seen this? I can provide samples.
-- James Strickland Perforce Software
"JS" == James Strickland <james@perforce.com> writes:
JS> I should send you the 14 messages totalling 42k of email which
JS> the use of the prefix generated on the list! :-) Many users
JS> seemed quite upset. Only a couple wanted the feature.
JS> Remarkable... I personally think it's useful.I completely remove the prefix for python-list@python.org, but for most other lists I keep the prefix. Personally I prefer them, but for my filtering software, it really is redundant information.
JS> btw, is there anything that can be done about mailers sending
JS> bounce messages which Mailman doesn't recognize? Most bounces
JS> seem to be handled automatically, but some aren't, and they
JS> seem to be all from MS Exchange or Lotus Bloats. Has anyone
JS> else seen this? I can provide samples.Bounce detection is pretty ad-hoc right now, being composed of gobs of crufty regexps. At some point we should bring sanity to this part of the system. For now, I'm just trying to collect bounces that don't get recognized. If possible, submit a bug report and include the entire bounce.
-Barry
On Thu, 29 Jul 1999, John Viega wrote:
Most people will prefer it, since it will help them visually filter
Just to offer a voice of descent.... ;) I don't care for it all that much as I sort incoming list messages into their own folders, so its pretty much wasted bytes. But its a trivial thing.
Darren Henderson darren@jasper.somtel.com
Help fight junk e-mail, visit http://www.cauce.org/
At around Thu, 29 Jul 1999 23:12:14 -0400 (EDT), Darren Henderson <darren@jasper.somtel.com> may have mentioned:
On Thu, 29 Jul 1999, John Viega wrote:
Most people will prefer it, since it will help them visually filter
Just to offer a voice of descent.... ;) I don't care for it all that much as I sort incoming list messages into their own folders, so its pretty much wasted bytes. But its a trivial thing.
it's nice for visually filtering, yes. if you don't visually filter, it can be a pain. as mentioned before, limited subject column space for many a mail reader...
it would be really nice to be able to set this per user from the user perspective.
better still i think would be a message header indicating what list the message is from, client software that displays this header, and peace on earth, and carp and perch and trout and ... bream ;-)
"sm" == sen ml <sen_ml@eccosys.com> writes:
sm> it would be really nice to be able to set this per user from
sm> the user perspective.That's not going to be possible, since you can't efficiently craft custom messages for each individual user.
sm> better still i think would be a message header indicating what
sm> list the message is from, client software that displays this
sm> header, and peace on earth, and carp and perch and trout and
sm> ... bream ;-)Mailman already does the first...
List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users <mailman-users.python.org>
...the second, third, and subsequent are beyond the scope of this software. :)
-Barry
At around Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:42:04 -0400 (EDT), "Barry A. Warsaw" <bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us> may have mentioned:
"sm" == sen ml <sen_ml@eccosys.com> writes:
sm> it would be really nice to be able to set this per user from sm> the user perspective.That's not going to be possible, since you can't efficiently craft custom messages for each individual user.
i thought that might be the case :-(
here's a post from the ezmlm mailing list which makes me think it might almost be possible (may be even efficiently) using a patched qmail...
<beginning of edited post>
From: "Fred Lindberg" <lindberg@id.wustl.edu> To: "ezmlm@list.cr.yp.to" <ezmlm@list.cr.yp.to> Cc: "qmail@list.cr.yp.to" <qmail@list.cr.yp.to> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:46:18 -0600
ftp://ftp.id.wustl.edu/pub/patches/qmail-verh-0.01.tar.gz
6f6a3cfaf7514790f8e63cd08d38c124 qmail-verh-0.01.tar.gz
This package contains two patches for qmail-1.03 + docs. The first patch causes qmail-remote to replace '##L' with the recipient local address and `##H' with the recipient host address. This can be used to construct rfc2369 List-Unsubscribe etc headers that will always have the correct subscription address. The second patch causes qmail-local to do a similar substitution. In this case, a VERP SENDER (ad modum ezmlm) is required. This works for all delivery modes except program delivery. See README in the package for more info.
To see what it looks like, subscribe to the qmail@id.wustl.edu sublist and look at the posts. You'll find a
List-unsubscribe: <mailto:qmail-unsubscribe-you=your_host@id.wustl.edu> header.
Same for the daily qmail-digest@id.wustl.edu
<end of edited post>
so if qmail is used w/ certain patches (i guess there might need to be some mechanism of retrieving user setting information when a message is about to be sent), would it not be possible in theory? he asked him knowingly -- not knowing anything about mailman internals :-)
sm> better still i think would be a message header indicating what sm> list the message is from, client software that displays this sm> header, and peace on earth, and carp and perch and trout and sm> ... bream ;-)Mailman already does the first...
List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users <mailman-users.python.org>
that's good -- i should have checked before opening my mouth.
do you know whether List-Id is more-or-less an 'official' header?
...the second, third, and subsequent are beyond the scope of this software. :)
if the List-Id header is semi-official, then we can go around evangelizing to folks who write mail clients or write patches to mail clients ourselves :-)
participants (6)
-
Barry A. Warsaw -
Darren Henderson -
Deirdre -
James Strickland -
John Viega -
sen_ml＠eccosys.com