Back at trying to set this up after several days.
Done previously:
Set up mailman group, and added 'mailman' as user in that group.
Created /usr/local/mailman: drwxrwsr-x 20 root mailman 4096 2006-04-26 20:11 . Done today:
Recompiled with: ./configure --with-mail-gid="daemon" --with-mailhost="olypen.com" --with-urlhost="localhost"
Ran 'make install' with no hitches, ran 'check_perms' which returned no problems.
As user "mailman" in /usr/local/mailman, ran 'bin/mailmanctl start' and got canonical response.
So I should be up and running, I would think.
I've two email addresses for this list, and will do all list configuring manually from command line, a KISS operation. One address is for list activity and the other is for requests for membership, etc. No web page.
Next, I sent a test email to the list address, and this is what /var/log/maillog recorded:
[The machine name is mailhost.locallan.]
May 7 20:25:28 mailhost fetchmail[1689]: reading message my_list@pop3.olypen.com:1 of 1 (1517 octets) May 7 20:25:28 mailhost sm-mta[4078]: k483PSOQ004078: from=wtallman@olypen.com, size=1595, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=20060508032419.GB3847@olypen.com, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1] May 7 20:25:28 mailhost fetchmail[1689]: flushed May 7 20:25:29 mailhost sm-mta[4079]: k483PSOQ004078: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman", ctladdr=mailman@localhost (2/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=31767, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent May 7 20:25:31 mailhost sm-mta[4082]: k483PUSs004082: from=mailman-bounces@mailhost.locallan, size=2772, class=-60, nrcpts=1, msgid=mailman.1.1147058729.3838.mailman@mailhost.locallan, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1] May 7 20:25:31 mailhost sm-mta[4084]: k483PUSs004082: to=wtallman@olypen.com, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=140772, relay=smtp.olypen.com. [208.200.248.8], dsn=5.1.1, stat=User unknown May 7 20:25:31 mailhost sm-mta[4084]: k483PUSs004082: k483PVSs004084: DSN: User unknown May 7 20:25:32 mailhost fetchmail[1689]: sleeping at Sun May 7 20:25:32 2006 May 7 20:25:32 mailhost sm-mta[4084]: k483PVSs004084: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman", ctladdr=mailman-bounces@mailhost.locallan (2/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=30000, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent May 7 20:40:32 mailhost fetchmail[1689]: awakened at Sun May 7 20:40:32 2006 May 7 20:40:47 mailhost fetchmail[1689]: sleeping at Sun May 7 20:40:47 2006
Fetchmail poll period is 15 minutes.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner for that time period:
May 07 20:08:14 2006 (3835) ArchRunner qrunner started. May 07 20:08:15 2006 (3836) BounceRunner qrunner started. May 07 20:08:16 2006 (3837) CommandRunner qrunner started. May 07 20:08:16 2006 (3838) IncomingRunner qrunner started. May 07 20:08:17 2006 (3841) VirginRunner qrunner started. May 07 20:08:17 2006 (3839) NewsRunner qrunner started. May 07 20:08:17 2006 (3840) OutgoingRunner qrunner started. May 07 20:08:17 2006 (3842) RetryRunner qrunner started. May 07 20:45:05 2006 (3840) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGINT. Stopping. May 07 20:45:05 2006 (3840) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting. May 07 20:45:05 2006 (3841) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGINT. Stopping. May 07 20:45:05 2006 (3841) VirginRunner qrunner exiting. May 07 20:45:05 2006 (3835) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGINT. Stopping. May 07 20:45:05 2006 (3837) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGINT. Stopping. May 07 20:45:05 2006 (3837) CommandRunner qrunner exiting. May 07 20:45:05 2006 (3838) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGINT. Stopping. May 07 20:45:05 2006 (3838) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting. May 07 20:45:05 2006 (3835) ArchRunner qrunner exiting. May 07 20:45:05 2006 (3839) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGINT. Stopping. May 07 20:45:05 2006 (3839) NewsRunner qrunner exiting. May 07 20:45:05 2006 (3842) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGINT. Stopping. May 07 20:45:05 2006 (3842) RetryRunner qrunner exiting. May 07 20:45:05 2006 (3836) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGINT. Stopping. May 07 20:45:05 2006 (3836) BounceRunner qrunner exiting. May 07 20:45:05 2006 (3834) Master watcher caught SIGINT. Restarting. May 07 20:45:06 2006 (3834) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 3835, sig: None, sts: 2, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] May 07 20:45:06 2006 (3834) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 3836, sig: None, sts: 2, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] May 07 20:45:06 2006 (3834) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 3837, sig: None, sts: 2, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] May 07 20:45:06 2006 (3834) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 3838, sig: None, sts: 2, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] May 07 20:45:07 2006 (3834) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 3839, sig: None, sts: 2, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] May 07 20:45:07 2006 (3834) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 3840, sig: None, sts: 2, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] May 07 20:45:07 2006 (3834) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 3841, sig: None, sts: 2, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] May 07 20:45:07 2006 (3834) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid: 3842, sig: None, sts: 2, class: RetryRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] May 07 20:45:11 2006 (4347) ArchRunner qrunner started. May 07 20:45:11 2006 (4348) BounceRunner qrunner started. May 07 20:45:11 2006 (4349) CommandRunner qrunner started. May 07 20:45:12 2006 (4350) IncomingRunner qrunner started. May 07 20:45:12 2006 (4351) NewsRunner qrunner started. May 07 20:45:12 2006 (4352) OutgoingRunner qrunner started. May 07 20:45:12 2006 (4353) VirginRunner qrunner started. May 07 20:45:12 2006 (4354) RetryRunner qrunner started.
That's the end of the grunner log file. Note that no activity is recorded for the time period of the maillog.
And no mail is sent back out, apparently, because none is received by the list subscriber.
Now, I've already demonstrated my abysmal ignorance of this stuff in previous comments, but I'd sure like to get this running if I can. Is there enough information here to diagnose this situation? If not, what can I provide?
I really appreciate the knowledge and assistance here! Thanks for reading and I hope to comprehend all responses ;)
Thanks,
Bill Tallman
~
On 5/8/06, William D. Tallman wtallman@olypen.com wrote:
May 7 20:25:28 mailhost fetchmail[1689]: reading message my_list@pop3.olypen.com:1 of 1 (1517 octets) May 7 20:25:28 mailhost sm-mta[4078]: k483PSOQ004078: from=wtallman@olypen.com, size=1595, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=20060508032419.GB3847@olypen.com, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1] May 7 20:25:28 mailhost fetchmail[1689]: flushed May 7 20:25:29 mailhost sm-mta[4079]: k483PSOQ004078: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman", At this point, sendmail (right?) has dispatched the message sent to my_list@pop3.olypen.com, or perhaps my_list@olypen.com, to the mailmain handler. Is '/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman' the proper address?
ctladdr=mailman@localhost (2/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=31767, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent May 7 20:25:31 mailhost sm-mta[4082]: k483PUSs004082: from=mailman-bounces@mailhost.locallan, size=2772, class=-60, nrcpts=1, msgid=mailman.1.1147058729.3838.mailman@mailhost.locallan, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1] May 7 20:25:31 mailhost sm-mta[4084]: k483PUSs004082: to=wtallman@olypen.com, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=140772, relay=smtp.olypen.com. [208.200.248.8], dsn=5.1.1, stat=User unknown May 7 20:25:31 mailhost sm-mta[4084]: k483PUSs004082: k483PVSs004084: DSN: User unknown Mailman has generated a response, and attempted to send it to wtallman@olypen.com, but it was rejected by the remote SMTP server. The SMTP server reported 'User unknown'. Check the logs on smtp.olypen.com, if you can, for more information about this.
-- SNIP --
That's the end of the grunner log file. Note that no activity is recorded for the time period of the maillog. The qrunners each, more or less, have their own logs. the main qrunner log only records what you see; when they started, when they failed, when they restarted.
And no mail is sent back out, apparently, because none is received by the list subscriber. See my comments above.
Now, I've already demonstrated my abysmal ignorance of this stuff in previous comments, but I'd sure like to get this running if I can. Is there enough information here to diagnose this situation? If not, what can I provide? Mailman *seems* to be working, but I might be missing something. If nothing else, I don't know that 'my_list@...' should be sending to the mailman list.
--
- Patrick Bogen
On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 10:51:41AM -0500, Patrick Bogen wrote:
On 5/8/06, William D. Tallman wtallman@olypen.com wrote: <snip>
This is the point at which Mailman initiates a response.
May 7 20:25:31 mailhost sm-mta[4082]: k483PUSs004082: from=mailman-bounces@mailhost.locallan, size=2772, class=-60, nrcpts=1, msgid=mailman.1.1147058729.3838.mailman@mailhost.locallan, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1] May 7 20:25:31 mailhost sm-mta[4084]: k483PUSs004082: to=wtallman@olypen.com, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=140772, relay=smtp.olypen.com. [208.200.248.8], dsn=5.1.1, stat=User unknown May 7 20:25:31 mailhost sm-mta[4084]: k483PUSs004082: k483PVSs004084: DSN: User unknown Mailman has generated a response, and attempted to send it to wtallman@olypen.com, but it was rejected by the remote SMTP server. The SMTP server reported 'User unknown'. Check the logs on smtp.olypen.com, if you can, for more information about this.
Called Olypen, and it would seem that the smtp session must have gone like such:
telnet smtp.olypen.com 25 // Get okay. HELO mailhost.locallan // Get okay (250). MAIL From: mailman-bounces@mailhost.locallan // User unknown?
The tech support guy said that 'mailman-bounces' is an unauthenticated User, or so he thought. I'll know more later when the guy at the NOC gets back to me. Maybe it will be a case of getting Mailman authenticated on their smtp server. That sounds like the server will only accept mail from subscribers, which makes sense.
Addendum, just before sending this off: The NOC guy just called back, and said that indeed 'mailman-bounces' is unauthorized at their smtp server. After some discussion (very few of their subscribers run Linux, although they themselves run RedHat on their servers), I discovered that they are contemplating email list service as an addition to what they already offer.
Such service would be industrial/commercial and cost several hundred bucks a month, I suggested, and we agreed I wouldn't be paying that sort of freight. OTOH, as they really like OS/FSF software, it would be very likely they would choose Mailman. With that in mind, I said I'd be very happy to share my experiences and what I learned if I could successfully set up my server.
On that note, the guy said he would advocate opening their port 25 for me, the decision to be made by the email sysadmin. So we'll see what happens.
OYAH (On Yet Another Hand...), if I could configure Mailman to use 'my_list' instead of 'mailman-bounces', all this would be resolved, as 'my_list' is an authenticated User; it's one of my mailbox addresses.
If that is possible, that's what I would do. Hafta look at the source code... and I've never even looked at Python... this oughta be fun!
-- SNIP --
That's the end of the grunner log file. Note that no activity is recorded for the time period of the maillog. The qrunners each, more or less, have their own logs. the main qrunner log only records what you see; when they started, when they failed, when they restarted.
Okay, that makes sense. Didn't know what I should find there.
And no mail is sent back out, apparently, because none is received by the list subscriber. See my comments above.
Now, I've already demonstrated my abysmal ignorance of this stuff in previous comments, but I'd sure like to get this running if I can. Is there enough information here to diagnose this situation? If not, what can I provide? Mailman *seems* to be working, but I might be missing something. If nothing else, I don't know that 'my_list@...' should be sending to the mailman list.
Well, 'my_list@' is one of the email addresses I get with my subscription to Olypen's services (5 with aDSL). So Fetchmail gets mail from that mailbox and sends it to Mailman.
fetchmailrc snippet: user 'my_list' there with password '******' is 'mailman' here
'mailman' is, of course, a user on this machine, so messages sent from Fetchmail wind up in /var/spool/mail/mailman. Apparently, Mailman likes that just fine.
The deal breaker here would be if Olypen insists on establishing mailman-bounces as a separate subscriber. At that point, this entire setup -> /dev/null.
Thanks for this response; it verified my suspicions and pointed me to the presumed source of the problem: the ISP.
Thanks for reading,
Bill Tallman
On 8 May 2006, at 22:04, William D. Tallman wrote:
On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 10:51:41AM -0500, Patrick Bogen wrote:
On 5/8/06, William D. Tallman wtallman@olypen.com wrote: <snip>
This is the point at which Mailman initiates a response.
May 7 20:25:31 mailhost sm-mta[4082]: k483PUSs004082: from=mailman-bounces@mailhost.locallan, size=2772, class=-60, nrcpts=1, msgid=
, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1] May 7 20:25:31 mailhost sm-mta[4084]: k483PUSs004082: to=wtallman@olypen.com, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00,
mailer=relay, pri=140772, relay=smtp.olypen.com. [208.200.248.8], dsn=5.1.1,
stat=User unknown May 7 20:25:31 mailhost sm-mta[4084]: k483PUSs004082:
k483PVSs004084: DSN: User unknown Mailman has generated a response, and attempted to send it to wtallman@olypen.com, but it was rejected by the remote SMTP server. The SMTP server reported 'User unknown'. Check the logs on smtp.olypen.com, if you can, for more information about this.Called Olypen, and it would seem that the smtp session must have gone like such:
telnet smtp.olypen.com 25 // Get okay. HELO mailhost.locallan // Get okay (250). MAIL From: mailman-bounces@mailhost.locallan // User unknown?
The tech support guy said that 'mailman-bounces' is an
unauthenticated User, or so he thought. I'll know more later when the guy at the NOC gets back to me. Maybe it will be a case of getting Mailman authenticated on their smtp server. That sounds like the server will only accept mail from subscribers, which makes sense.
Addendum, just before sending this off: The NOC guy just called back, and said that indeed 'mailman-bounces' is unauthorized at their smtp server. After some discussion (very few of their subscribers run
Linux, although they themselves run RedHat on their servers), I discovered
that they are contemplating email list service as an addition to what they already offer.Such service would be industrial/commercial and cost several hundred bucks a month, I suggested, and we agreed I wouldn't be paying that
sort of freight. OTOH, as they really like OS/FSF software, it would be
very likely they would choose Mailman. With that in mind, I said I'd be
very happy to share my experiences and what I learned if I could
successfully set up my server.On that note, the guy said he would advocate opening their port 25 for me, the decision to be made by the email sysadmin. So we'll see what happens.
OYAH (On Yet Another Hand...), if I could configure Mailman to use 'my_list' instead of 'mailman-bounces', all this would be resolved, as 'my_list' is an authenticated User; it's one of my mailbox addresses.
If that is possible, that's what I would do. Hafta look at the source code... and I've never even looked at Python... this oughta be fun!
The problem you get with this solution and the reason why outbound
mail comes from the <listname>-bounces alias rather than the
<listname> alias is that if outbound traffic to your subscribers
bounces then the bounce messages end up being re-distributed to the
subscribers, just like regular posts to the list! The bounces alias
captures bounce messages and the Mailman bounce handler deals with them.
-- SNIP --
That's the end of the grunner log file. Note that no activity is recorded for the time period of the maillog. The qrunners each, more or less, have their own logs. the main
qrunner log only records what you see; when they started, when they failed, when they restarted.Okay, that makes sense. Didn't know what I should find there.
And no mail is sent back out, apparently, because none is
received by the list subscriber. See my comments above.Now, I've already demonstrated my abysmal ignorance of this stuff in previous comments, but I'd sure like to get this running if I
can. Is there enough information here to diagnose this situation? If
not, what can I provide? Mailman *seems* to be working, but I might be missing something. If nothing else, I don't know that 'my_list@...' should be sending to
the mailman list.Well, 'my_list@' is one of the email addresses I get with my subscription to Olypen's services (5 with aDSL). So Fetchmail gets
mail from that mailbox and sends it to Mailman.fetchmailrc snippet: user 'my_list' there with password '******' is 'mailman' here
'mailman' is, of course, a user on this machine, so messages sent from Fetchmail wind up in /var/spool/mail/mailman. Apparently, Mailman
likes that just fine.The deal breaker here would be if Olypen insists on establishing mailman-bounces as a separate subscriber. At that point, this entire setup -> /dev/null.
Thanks for this response; it verified my suspicions and pointed me to the presumed source of the problem: the ISP.
Time to change?
Thanks for reading,
Bill Tallman
On 5/8/06, William D. Tallman wtallman@olypen.com wrote:
Thanks for this response; it verified my suspicions and pointed me to the presumed source of the problem: the ISP.
(Disclaimer, or un-disclaimer: I don't work for these people, but I lease a server from them and have had pretty good service and reliability for the week or two I've had the thing)
A much cheaper solution than the one your ISP offers would be to rent a virtual server. The best deal I've found is from www.vpsland.com -- for $12/mo., you get 100GB of transfer and a virtual linux box that should be more than beefy enough to run mailman, and perhaps any other low-impact tasks you wish to assign to it. The upshot is that you'll never have to deal with an evil ADSL company for your mailing lists, etc; however, you will have to maintain your own fully-fledged mail server, which may be a daunting task for the uninitiated.
--
- Patrick Bogen
On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 05:06:08PM -0500, Patrick Bogen wrote:
On 5/8/06, William D. Tallman wtallman@olypen.com wrote:
Thanks for this response; it verified my suspicions and pointed me to the presumed source of the problem: the ISP.
(Disclaimer, or un-disclaimer: I don't work for these people, but I lease a server from them and have had pretty good service and reliability for the week or two I've had the thing)
A much cheaper solution than the one your ISP offers would be to rent a virtual server. The best deal I've found is from www.vpsland.com -- for $12/mo., you get 100GB of transfer and a virtual linux box that should be more than beefy enough to run mailman, and perhaps any other low-impact tasks you wish to assign to it. The upshot is that you'll never have to deal with an evil ADSL company for your mailing lists, etc; however, you will have to maintain your own fully-fledged mail server, which may be a daunting task for the uninitiated.
--
- Patrick Bogen
This is an interesting option. Sounds better than having one's one machine vulnerable, I think. I could run a web server as well, and then Mailman would have the opportunity to be completely functional. I think that's the best idea. Book-marked their site for future reference.
That said, I could have a static IP address for $10/mo. extra, but that would leave me vulnerable at any and all open ports (router/modem becomes an effective bridge for those ports when its configured to allow traffic to them. IIUC, that is).
Re, evil ADSL companies: Yep, we got Quest. My local ISP has a deal with them, and the service was pretty spotty until I bitched loud enough that they came out and put a battery in the mini-DSLAM. Talk about incompetent! So far, though, it's been pretty good; they've got competition (at least for aDSL).
In any case, this was supposed to be just a learning experience with the possibility of something functional if I wanted it. As I really don't have a current use for a list server, I think I'll limit the project at this point. Mailman > /dev/null.
I'd like to take this opportunity, however, to thank you folk for the tons of information you make available, and for your courteous and substantial responses. I can say that if at any time in the future I need to set up something myself, I now have the basic knowledge tools to do so. At which point, "Ah'll be back!"
Thanks for reading,
Bill Tallman
participants (3)
-
Patrick Bogen -
Richard Barrett -
William D. Tallman