disappearing CC lines
hi
i have some problems with a mailman list. if i send from user A, to list L, and CC to B and C (where A,B,C are list members on the same list), the mail i got back from the list (to user A) is missing a CC address. i mean when i look at the message (using firefox) there is only one user (B) in the CC list, the other one is gone.
i don't know why this is. could somebody help me out?
i tried to send the same mail to another address too (like yahoo), with CC, and it appears alright. so i don't think it's my MTA.
MTA: postfix-2.2.2, mailman: 2.1.5, distrib: Fedora Core 2
On 5/18/06, Imre Gergely <imre.gergely@astral.ro> wrote:
i have some problems with a mailman list. if i send from user A, to list L, and CC to B and C (where A,B,C are list members on the same list), the mail i got back from the list (to user A) is missing a CC address. i mean when i look at the message (using firefox) there is only one user (B) in the CC list, the other one is gone.
Is user C a member of list L? Mailman tries to not send duplicates, and it may in fact do this by stripping the address from the CC and sending it as a normal list post.
--
- Patrick Bogen
Patrick Bogen wrote:
On 5/18/06, Imre Gergely <imre.gergely@astral.ro> wrote:
i have some problems with a mailman list. if i send from user A, to list L, and CC to B and C (where A,B,C are list members on the same list), the mail i got back from the list (to user A) is missing a CC address. i mean when i look at the message (using firefox) there is only one user (B) in the CC list, the other one is gone.
Is user C a member of list L? Mailman tries to not send duplicates, and it may in fact do this by stripping the address from the CC and sending it as a normal list post.
Patrick is correct as to what happens, but it is a mystery to me why this is done. The AvoidDups handler makes a list of all explicit recipients of a message (addresses in To:, Cc:, Resent-To: and Resent-Cc:). It then goes through the message recipients (normally, the non-digest list members with delivery enabled) and any message recipient that is a list member and has DontReceiveDuplicates set is removed from the message recipients so that address doesn't receive a list message because it presumably receive a directly addressed message. So far, so good.
But then, for reasons I don't understand, AvoidDups then removes this address from the Cc: header, if that's where it was. It doesn't remove it if it is in To:, Resent-To: or Resent-Cc:. It just removes it from Cc:. It is not clear (to me at least) why.
But the bottom line is any address in Cc: that would otherwise have received the post from the list and that has DontReceiveDuplicates set will not receive the post from the list (because it presumably received the Cc:) and will be removed from the Cc: header of the message sent from the list.
Note that this does not affect digest members who are in Cc: because they will not be candidate recipients of the message.
-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mark Sapiro wrote:
Patrick Bogen wrote:
On 5/18/06, Imre Gergely <imre.gergely@astral.ro> wrote:
i have some problems with a mailman list. if i send from user A, to list L, and CC to B and C (where A,B,C are list members on the same list), the mail i got back from the list (to user A) is missing a CC address. i mean when i look at the message (using firefox) there is only one user (B) in the CC list, the other one is gone. Is user C a member of list L? Mailman tries to not send duplicates, and it may in fact do this by stripping the address from the CC and sending it as a normal list post.
Patrick is correct as to what happens, but it is a mystery to me why this is done. The AvoidDups handler makes a list of all explicit recipients of a message (addresses in To:, Cc:, Resent-To: and Resent-Cc:). It then goes through the message recipients (normally, the non-digest list members with delivery enabled) and any message recipient that is a list member and has DontReceiveDuplicates set is removed from the message recipients so that address doesn't receive a list message because it presumably receive a directly addressed message. So far, so good.
But then, for reasons I don't understand, AvoidDups then removes this address from the Cc: header, if that's where it was. It doesn't remove it if it is in To:, Resent-To: or Resent-Cc:. It just removes it from Cc:. It is not clear (to me at least) why.
But the bottom line is any address in Cc: that would otherwise have received the post from the list and that has DontReceiveDuplicates set will not receive the post from the list (because it presumably received the Cc:) and will be removed from the Cc: header of the message sent from the list.
Note that this does not affect digest members who are in Cc: because they will not be candidate recipients of the message.
let me get this straight. when somebody who is on the list, is also in the CC: of the message, it wont get the mail from the list, only from the original poster, right? that's what this DontReceiveDupes does.
but the other members of the list do get the mail. they should see in the Cc: that one person, who didn't get it because of above condition. or am i wrong here?
On 5/19/06, Imre Gergely <imre.gergely@astral.ro> wrote:
but the other members of the list do get the mail. they should see in the Cc: that one person, who didn't get it because of above condition. or am i wrong here?
I don't know about 'should,' but this is NOT what happens. As Mark explains, the AvoidDups mechanism will drop from the CC any users which (a) were originally listed in the CC, and (b) are list members. So, the only people in the CC should be users for which (a) is true and (b) is FALSE.
Hope this helps,
--
- Patrick Bogen
Patrick Bogen wrote:
On 5/19/06, Imre Gergely <imre.gergely@astral.ro> wrote:
but the other members of the list do get the mail. they should see in the Cc: that one person, who didn't get it because of above condition. or am i wrong here?
I don't know about 'should,' but this is NOT what happens. As Mark explains, the AvoidDups mechanism will drop from the CC any users which (a) were originally listed in the CC, and (b) are list members. So, the only people in the CC should be users for which (a) is true and (b) is FALSE.
Actually, the (b) condition is a bit more restrictive - they have to be a candidate to receive this post from the list. I.e., they have to be a non-digest list member with delivery enabled and not the poster if the poster has DontReceiveOwnPosts set, and they have to meet the topic filter criteria for this post if any.
But that is the way it does work. The real question is if that is the way it 'should' work. I tend to agree with Imre that removing the address is wrong, but I can see arguments on both sides. For example, one reason I care, is I 'reply all' to posts, and I like to see all the past posters in a thread in To: or Cc:. I think this is good because it keeps digest members who have posted to a thread current on the thread, but current behavior doesn't remove a digest member - it only removes a message member, so maybe it's good to reduce clutter.
The thing I really dislike about the current behavior is it is inconsistent. It removes from Cc: but not from To:.
I'm going to try to find out if anyone remembers why it is this way in the first place, and if it should be continued.
-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mark Sapiro wrote:
I'm going to try to find out if anyone remembers why it is this way in the first place, and if it should be continued.
The log message associated with the change says:
process(): If a member has enabled their DontReceiveDuplicates option, we'll also strip their addresses from CC headers in the list copy. This helps keep the CC lines from growing astronomically.
-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Imre Gergely wrote:
let me get this straight. when somebody who is on the list, is also in the CC: of the message, it wont get the mail from the list, only from the original poster, right? that's what this DontReceiveDupes does.
Correct.
but the other members of the list do get the mail. they should see in the Cc: that one person, who didn't get it because of above condition. or am i wrong here?
See next reply.
-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
participants (3)
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Imre Gergely
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Mark Sapiro
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Patrick Bogen