message body is blank for some users
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ddd7fbf9685cf38b01776f8cf29daf79.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Hello
One of my users' messages are always sent out to list members with a blank body.
I have tried unsubscribing him and resubscribing him. Same result.
Most other members are posting fine (though some never bother!).
What could be causing this and how can I run diagnostics to trace the problem? Or, even better, how can I fix it?
I am running Mailman v 2.1.7. I am not allowed to upgrade to 2.1.8 as the installation is provided by a third party (CPanel) via my web host.
Any ideas?
Many thanks Nigel
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/e6ea3e5ffc3558c74e9f8cbf3f38357a.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
At 7:41 PM +0100 2006-05-31, Heal Secretary wrote:
This user is probably sending out an HTML-formatted message (or
in some other MIME format), and you have Mailman configured to strip HTML (or whatever the other MIME format is).
Check your settings. Have the user send you a message directly,
then use whatever techniques your MUA allows you to have to see all the messy headers and MIME body structure. If you don't have an MUA that lets you see all that, you'll need to get an MUA that will.
-- Brad Knowles, <brad@stop.mail-abuse.org>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
LOPSA member since December 2005. See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/746f7519ba02fb0d815e59f305c53fa2.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Brad Knowles wrote:
Brad is correct, particularly about diagnosis. I just want to add a couple of ideas.
If Mailman's content filtering removes ALL the MIME parts so none remain, the post will be handled according to filter_action; it won't go to the list. If content filtering is removing the body, there must be some other part which may be blank but is not removed for the result to go to the list.
Another possibility to consider is that the message may be an HTML or other rich text format message which is reaching the list and which has (for example) white text on a white background. If this is the case, the "blank" message body may be sizable to the point that it has a scroll bar, but still "blank". You may be able to select the "blank" text, copy it and paste it into a plain text editor and see it that way.
This latter situation comes about when someone has their own MUA set for "rich text" with a default background color of say black and an explicit font color of white. Then, when the white on black message is viewed by someone whose MUA backgrownd color is white, she sees the white on white "blank" message.
-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ddd7fbf9685cf38b01776f8cf29daf79.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Hi Brad
Thank you for this.
The user's messy headings reveal "Content-Type: text/html; format=flowed". Is this all I need to know?
I am using Eudora which shows plenty of messy headings. I don't know if it is a MUA or not. Please could you explain this term. Also, the messy headings don't have any mention of MIME. I'm sorry to say I don't even know what this term means. Please could you enlighten me?
In the meantime I have changed my settings to "Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? = No". I'll ask the user to post and see what happens.
Many thanks for your patience Nigel
At 21:58 31/5/06, Brad Knowles wrote:
Secretary of Heal Campaigning for a Sustainable Balanced Community www.healheadingley.org.uk
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/e6ea3e5ffc3558c74e9f8cbf3f38357a.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
At 10:02 PM +0100 2006-06-01, Heal Secretary wrote:
The user's messy headings reveal "Content-Type: text/html; format=flowed". Is this all I need to know?
That's unlikely to be all that you need to know.
I am using Eudora which shows plenty of messy headings. I don't know if it is a MUA or not.
Eudora is an MUA (Mail User Agent), and I happen to use the same
program. However, you need to look at more than just the headers -- you also need to look at the raw message body, which is something that Eudora does not do (so far as I know).
Try saving a copy of the message to a file, then pull up that
file in a text editor.
MIME is how Internet e-mail handles binary content. However,
although there are some official standards for MIME, very few programs actually implement all of those standards the same way.
What you need to be able to see is the internal MIME structure of
the message.
That may not help. Give it a try, but don't be surprised if it
doesn't work.
-- Brad Knowles, <brad@stop.mail-abuse.org>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
LOPSA member since December 2005. See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/358f04f5f993066da926a0892f774c83.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Brad Knowles sent the message below at 19:37 6/1/2006:
I use Eudora too, as far as I know, it doesn't allow you to do that. However, the .mbx files that Eudora uses are a slightly modified mbox format and can be viewed easily with a text editor.
The easiest way to do this is to create a new mailbox in Eudora, transfer the message to that mailbox and then open it in a text editor.
Dragon
Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ddd7fbf9685cf38b01776f8cf29daf79.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Dear Brad, Mark, Dragon and others
Further to this problem.... (some user's mailings to the list are sent to the list with a blank body), I have taken your advice.......
At 21:58 31/5/06, you wrote:
The direct message from my user, Jonathan, is copied below. Can anyone see why Jonathan's mailings would be sent to the list with a blank body?
Many thanks for any advice, and please word your reply for a biffo Nigel
From ???@??? Sun May 07 11:28:46 2006 Return-path: <Jonathan's email address> Envelope-to: secretary@healheadingley.org.uk Delivery-date: Sat, 06 May 2006 21:35:55 +0100 Received: from hopeful9 by colo16.ukhost4u.com with local-bsmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FcTVJ-0006H7-Tt for secretary@healheadingley.org.uk; Sat, 06 May 2006 21:35:55 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on colo16.ukhost4u.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, MIME_HTML_ONLY,MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 Received: from [65.54.168.37] (helo=hotmail.com) by colo16.ukhost4u.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FcTVJ-0006H1-Gk for secretary@healheadingley.org.uk; Sat, 06 May 2006 21:35:53 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 May 2006 13:36:01 -0700 Message-ID: <BAY113-F2775CB9724C4ED7D753A17D2AA0@phx.gbl> Received: from 65.54.168.200 by by113fd.bay113.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 06 May 2006 20:35:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [62.252.224.13] X-Originating-Email: [Jonathan's email address] X-Sender: Jonathan's email address From: "Jonathan" <Jonathan's email address> To: secretary@healheadingley.org.uk Bcc: Subject: Re: Blank replies Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 20:35:58 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 May 2006 20:36:01.0070 (UTC) FILETIME=[AFFD3CE0:01C6714C]
<x-html> <html><div style='background-color:'><P><BR><BR></P> <DIV class=RTE> <P>Hi Nigel, </P> <P>Re Sent my reply email a few mins ago and it's blank again!! Shame, as its a good one!</P> <P>The Bcc I sent to myself was fine, so it seems to be something wrong at your end.</P> <P>Below is a copy of the the email text I am trying to send!!</P> <P>Regards</P> <P>Jonathan</P> <P>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</P> <DIV> <P>Value of Cost?<BR><BR>Could this (proposed?!) car park development in an inner city urban green space, seemingly either to help car travelers to park in someone else's back-yard and/or to raise income for a Department of the Council, and certainly in contradiction of any Sustainable Development Policy that the Council is apparently signed up to, be summed up as the councilors concerned knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing, or maybe I have missed something here?</P> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV class=RTE>Alan, in response to your email; there is trust in people, trust in community involvement, trust in councilors and trust in local government and trust in the need to defend the environment against all the vagaries of human decision making systems. </DIV> <DIV class=RTE> </DIV> <DIV class=RTE>There always seems to be a hidden interest (unintentionally, overt or not) trying to bulldozing through what community, green space and local environments we have left! It seems to be part of 20th Century's man and woman governance that we need to stop!</DIV> <DIV class=RTE> </DIV> <DIV class=RTE>Perhaps we could suggest that the Leeds Millennium Square be turned into a tarmac car park and deny its view and space to public use?. That would look lovely! And they want to do this to our open park spaces in the inner city! Back off! </DIV> <DIV class=RTE> </DIV> <DIV class=RTE>Regards </DIV> <DIV class=RTE> </DIV> <DIV class=RTE>Jonathan</DIV> <DIV class=RTE> </DIV> <DIV></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5 2px solid"><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif"> <HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1>
<DIV></DIV>From: <I>Rich T <followfoucault@gmail.com></I><BR>Reply-To: <I>for local activists <activists@healheadingley.org.uk></I><BR>To: <I>a.slomson@leeds.ac.uk,for local activists <activists@healheadingley.org.uk>,William McKinnon <mackius@mac.com></I><BR>CC: <I>justchill@tiscali.co.uk, isobelsidebottom@hotmail.com,barrie.payne1@virgin.net, activists@healheadingley.org.uk,Christine Bethlehem <chris.bethlehem@ntlworld.com></I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: [activists] Woodhouse Moor Car Park Proposal - Oliver Cross article</I><BR>Date: <I>Fri, 05 May 2006 11:18:26 +0100</I><BR>>Alan, you're absolutely right - and this point has been raised<BR>>frequently at Headingley Forum. Unfortunately, despite the coverage<BR>>of our area by bottom-up groups, the Council remains committed to<BR>>top-down - and often, not even that. Richard T<BR>><BR>>At 08:12 05/05/2006, Alan Slomson wrote:<BR>> >This story, the story of the Headingley Run last Sunday, and the problems with<BR>> >Headingley Stadium have a common feature: inadequate consultation of local<BR>> >people by the Council. This seems to me to be a systematic failure which needs<BR>> >to be addressed over and above concerns about particular cases.<BR>> ><BR>> >Councillors are busy people, often doing full time jobs on top of<BR>> >Council work,<BR>> >so the problem needs to be dealt with at the level of Council officers.<BR>> ><BR>> >Given that in the area there are a number of well established community groups<BR>> >with fairly well defined spheres of interest, and that electronic<BR>> >communication<BR>> >is now so easy, it should not be difficult to develop a system where community<BR>> >groups get frequent advance notice of matters that might be of<BR>> >concern to them.<BR>> >Once such a system has been established, it should not take too much effort to<BR>> >operate. But, perhaps more importantly, both Council officials and Councillors<BR>> >need to be firmly committed to this sort of early consultation, and<BR>> >that has to<BR>> >be a real will to implement it.<BR>> >--<BR>> >Alan Slomson<BR>> >20 Grosvenor Park Gardens<BR>> >Leeds<BR>> >LS6 2PL<BR>> >e-mail: a.slomson@leeds.ac.uk<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> >Quoting William McKinnon <mackius@mac.com> on Fri 05 May 2006 07:06:29 BST:<BR>> ><BR>> > > Dear Friends of Woodhouse Moor<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Oliver Cross had a very interesting article in last Friday's YEP about the<BR>> > > proposed car park. In case you didn't see it, I've attached it to this<BR>> > > email.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Regards.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Bill McKinnon<BR>> > > 225 2700<BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > > PS. Mr Cross was one of those who attended last Thursday's drop-in.<BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>><BR>><BR>>_______________________________________________<BR>>--<BR>>activists mailing list<BR>>activists@healheadingley.org.uk<BR>>http://mail.healheadingley.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/activists_healheadingley.org.uk<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV> <P> </P> <P><BR><BR> </P></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif"> <HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1>
<DIV></DIV>From: <I>Heal Secretary <secretary@healheadingley.org.uk></I><BR>To: <I>"Jonathan" <Jonathan's email address></I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: Blank replies</I><BR>Date: <I>Sat, 06 May 2006 20:32:35 +0100</I><BR>>Hi Jonathan<BR>>Thanks for letting me know about this.<BR>>I've just got back from holiday (Why does something odd always have <BR>>to happen when I'm away!)<BR>>I've no idea what this is, but I'll look into it. It may take me a <BR>>bit of tinkering to diagnose the problem.<BR>>I see what you mean about the blank email - I got it too.<BR>>Can you please re-send your message, to the Activists? Please let me <BR>>know if it works this time.<BR>>Many thanks<BR>>Nigel<BR>><BR>><BR>>At 14:26 5/5/06, you wrote:<BR>><BR>>>Hi,<BR>>><BR>>>am I being gaged or is something wrong technically?. When I sent a <BR>>>reply to the acitivist list today ( Re: [activists] Woodhouse Moor <BR>>>Car Park Proposal) the email reply was blank. Is it something with <BR>>>Richard T's email??<BR>>><BR>>>On the blank email was a subscribtion link, which I have tried and <BR>>>I since gor an email saying that an attempt was made to subscribe ( <BR>>>it was me!!)<BR>>><BR>>>Please help as I want to contribute.<BR>>><BR>>>Thanks<BR>>><BR>>>Jonathan<BR>>>07906 973 370<BR>><BR>>Secretary of Heal<BR>>Campaigning for a Sustainable Balanced Community<BR>>www.healheadingley.org.uk<BR>><BR>>If you want to post items of interest to Headingley residents, use <BR>>the Message Board on the web site<BR>><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></div></html>
</x-html>
Secretary of Heal Headingley Campaigning for a Sustainable Balanced Community www.healheadingley.org.uk
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/746f7519ba02fb0d815e59f305c53fa2.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Heal Secretary wrote:
The direct message from my user, Jonathan, is copied below. Can anyone see why Jonathan's mailings would be sent to the list with a blank body?
<snip>
The message is a single HTML part.
What are the Content Filtering settings for your list?
I am guessing that you accept text/html and that convert_html_to_plaintext is Yes. If this is the case, I further suspect that there is some problem with html to plaintext conversion in your Mailman installation.
If this is the case, since this is a hosted cPanel installation, you don't have access to the things you need to diagnose this further.
You could try turning off convert_html_to_plaintext if it is on and then I think the body would go through, but as HTML, not plain text.
-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/746f7519ba02fb0d815e59f305c53fa2.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Mark Sapiro wrote:
I see from your archived post at <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-June/051404.html> that you say you turnd off convert_html_to_plaintext. If it was off when this post came through with a blank body, then I don't know what's happening.
What are all your Content filtering settings?
What do the headers of the post from the list with a blank body look like?
-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ddd7fbf9685cf38b01776f8cf29daf79.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Hi Mark Thank you for this.
The current filtering settings are -
Should Mailman filter the content of list traffic according to the settings below? YES Remove message attachments that have a matching content type. BLANK Remove message attachments that don't have a matching content type. Leave this field blank to skip this filter test. BLANK Remove message attachments that have a matching filename extension A LIST OF EXTENSIONS - EXE ETC Remove message attachments that don't have a matching filename extension. Leave this field blank to skip this filter test BLANK Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part content? YES Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? This conversion happens after MIME attachments have been stripped. NO Action to take when a message matches the content filtering rules. FORWARD TO LIST OWNER
I don't know what half of these mean so I'm none the wiser. If you think it would be a good plan I can turn content filtering off altogether and ask Jonathan to send a new message......
Here's one of Jonathan's mails that was sent to the list with a blank body (between asterisks)
From ???@??? Wed May 31 19:18:38 2006 Return-path: <activists-bounces@healheadingley.org.uk> Envelope-to: secretary@healheadingley.org.uk Delivery-date: Tue, 30 May 2006 21:23:59 +0100 Received: from hopeful9 by colo16.ukhost4u.com with local-bsmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FlAkw-0006Ui-1F for secretary@healheadingley.org.uk; Tue, 30 May 2006 21:23:59 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on colo16.ukhost4u.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=colo16.ukhost4u.com) by colo16.ukhost4u.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FlAkF-0006Pl-81; Tue, 30 May 2006 21:23:15 +0100 Received: from [65.54.168.45] (helo=hotmail.com) by colo16.ukhost4u.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FlAkA-0006Of-6y for activists@healheadingley.org.uk; Tue, 30 May 2006 21:23:10 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 30 May 2006 13:23:15 -0700 Message-ID: <BAY113-F35AF17143F677EB453ED2CD2920@phx.gbl> Received: from 65.54.168.200 by by113fd.bay113.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 30 May 2006 20:23:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [62.252.224.13] X-Originating-Email: [Jonathan's email address] X-Sender: Jonathan's email address From: "Jonathan" <Jonathan's email address> To: activists@healheadingley.org.uk Bcc: Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 20:23:10 +0000 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 May 2006 20:23:15.0960 (UTC) FILETIME=[E1DCB780:01C68426] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.7 Subject: [activists] Transport through Headingley X-BeenThere: activists@healheadingley.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list Reply-To: for local activists <activists@healheadingley.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: activists-bounces@healheadingley.org.uk
-- activists mailing list activists@healheadingley.org.uk http://mail.healheadingley.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/activists_healheadingley....
Many thanks for any ideas Nigel
Secretary of Heal Headingley Campaigning for a Sustainable Balanced Community www.healheadingley.org.uk
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/746f7519ba02fb0d815e59f305c53fa2.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Heal Secretary wrote:
The net effect of the above is to remove all attachments with filename extensions equal to one of the extensions in the list.
Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part content? YES
This could affect your issue. You could try setting it to No. When it is set to yes, Mailman will replace a multipart/alternative part with text/plain and text/html sub parts with just the text/plain part. If that happens to be 'blank' you will get the result below.
However, the original message you posted at <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-August/052525.html> was not structured in this way. It was a simple text/html message.
Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? This conversion happens after MIME attachments have been stripped. NO
I'm surprised because 'Yes' combined with other problems seems to me to be the most likely cause of this.
That will allow everything to pass through Mailman as sent. Whether or not this is a good idea depends on whether you want to filter the attachments with matching file name extensions.
I would try setting collapse multipart/alternative to No first.
So it was manipulated by content filtering.
And content filtering converted it to a single text/plain part either by collapsing a multipart/alternative part to the first subpart or by converting an html part to plain text.
We think the second thing didn't happen because convert_html_to_plaintext is No. The first thing is not consistent with the message you posted earlier, so only further testing will tell.
Test 1 - set collapse multipart/alternative to No and see what happens. If the post is still blank,
Test 2 - set filter_content.to No.
-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/e6ea3e5ffc3558c74e9f8cbf3f38357a.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
At 7:41 PM +0100 2006-05-31, Heal Secretary wrote:
This user is probably sending out an HTML-formatted message (or
in some other MIME format), and you have Mailman configured to strip HTML (or whatever the other MIME format is).
Check your settings. Have the user send you a message directly,
then use whatever techniques your MUA allows you to have to see all the messy headers and MIME body structure. If you don't have an MUA that lets you see all that, you'll need to get an MUA that will.
-- Brad Knowles, <brad@stop.mail-abuse.org>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
LOPSA member since December 2005. See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/746f7519ba02fb0d815e59f305c53fa2.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Brad Knowles wrote:
Brad is correct, particularly about diagnosis. I just want to add a couple of ideas.
If Mailman's content filtering removes ALL the MIME parts so none remain, the post will be handled according to filter_action; it won't go to the list. If content filtering is removing the body, there must be some other part which may be blank but is not removed for the result to go to the list.
Another possibility to consider is that the message may be an HTML or other rich text format message which is reaching the list and which has (for example) white text on a white background. If this is the case, the "blank" message body may be sizable to the point that it has a scroll bar, but still "blank". You may be able to select the "blank" text, copy it and paste it into a plain text editor and see it that way.
This latter situation comes about when someone has their own MUA set for "rich text" with a default background color of say black and an explicit font color of white. Then, when the white on black message is viewed by someone whose MUA backgrownd color is white, she sees the white on white "blank" message.
-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ddd7fbf9685cf38b01776f8cf29daf79.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Hi Brad
Thank you for this.
The user's messy headings reveal "Content-Type: text/html; format=flowed". Is this all I need to know?
I am using Eudora which shows plenty of messy headings. I don't know if it is a MUA or not. Please could you explain this term. Also, the messy headings don't have any mention of MIME. I'm sorry to say I don't even know what this term means. Please could you enlighten me?
In the meantime I have changed my settings to "Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? = No". I'll ask the user to post and see what happens.
Many thanks for your patience Nigel
At 21:58 31/5/06, Brad Knowles wrote:
Secretary of Heal Campaigning for a Sustainable Balanced Community www.healheadingley.org.uk
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/e6ea3e5ffc3558c74e9f8cbf3f38357a.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
At 10:02 PM +0100 2006-06-01, Heal Secretary wrote:
The user's messy headings reveal "Content-Type: text/html; format=flowed". Is this all I need to know?
That's unlikely to be all that you need to know.
I am using Eudora which shows plenty of messy headings. I don't know if it is a MUA or not.
Eudora is an MUA (Mail User Agent), and I happen to use the same
program. However, you need to look at more than just the headers -- you also need to look at the raw message body, which is something that Eudora does not do (so far as I know).
Try saving a copy of the message to a file, then pull up that
file in a text editor.
MIME is how Internet e-mail handles binary content. However,
although there are some official standards for MIME, very few programs actually implement all of those standards the same way.
What you need to be able to see is the internal MIME structure of
the message.
That may not help. Give it a try, but don't be surprised if it
doesn't work.
-- Brad Knowles, <brad@stop.mail-abuse.org>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
LOPSA member since December 2005. See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/358f04f5f993066da926a0892f774c83.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Brad Knowles sent the message below at 19:37 6/1/2006:
I use Eudora too, as far as I know, it doesn't allow you to do that. However, the .mbx files that Eudora uses are a slightly modified mbox format and can be viewed easily with a text editor.
The easiest way to do this is to create a new mailbox in Eudora, transfer the message to that mailbox and then open it in a text editor.
Dragon
Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ddd7fbf9685cf38b01776f8cf29daf79.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Dear Brad, Mark, Dragon and others
Further to this problem.... (some user's mailings to the list are sent to the list with a blank body), I have taken your advice.......
At 21:58 31/5/06, you wrote:
The direct message from my user, Jonathan, is copied below. Can anyone see why Jonathan's mailings would be sent to the list with a blank body?
Many thanks for any advice, and please word your reply for a biffo Nigel
From ???@??? Sun May 07 11:28:46 2006 Return-path: <Jonathan's email address> Envelope-to: secretary@healheadingley.org.uk Delivery-date: Sat, 06 May 2006 21:35:55 +0100 Received: from hopeful9 by colo16.ukhost4u.com with local-bsmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FcTVJ-0006H7-Tt for secretary@healheadingley.org.uk; Sat, 06 May 2006 21:35:55 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on colo16.ukhost4u.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, MIME_HTML_ONLY,MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 Received: from [65.54.168.37] (helo=hotmail.com) by colo16.ukhost4u.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FcTVJ-0006H1-Gk for secretary@healheadingley.org.uk; Sat, 06 May 2006 21:35:53 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 6 May 2006 13:36:01 -0700 Message-ID: <BAY113-F2775CB9724C4ED7D753A17D2AA0@phx.gbl> Received: from 65.54.168.200 by by113fd.bay113.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 06 May 2006 20:35:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [62.252.224.13] X-Originating-Email: [Jonathan's email address] X-Sender: Jonathan's email address From: "Jonathan" <Jonathan's email address> To: secretary@healheadingley.org.uk Bcc: Subject: Re: Blank replies Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 20:35:58 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 May 2006 20:36:01.0070 (UTC) FILETIME=[AFFD3CE0:01C6714C]
<x-html> <html><div style='background-color:'><P><BR><BR></P> <DIV class=RTE> <P>Hi Nigel, </P> <P>Re Sent my reply email a few mins ago and it's blank again!! Shame, as its a good one!</P> <P>The Bcc I sent to myself was fine, so it seems to be something wrong at your end.</P> <P>Below is a copy of the the email text I am trying to send!!</P> <P>Regards</P> <P>Jonathan</P> <P>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</P> <DIV> <P>Value of Cost?<BR><BR>Could this (proposed?!) car park development in an inner city urban green space, seemingly either to help car travelers to park in someone else's back-yard and/or to raise income for a Department of the Council, and certainly in contradiction of any Sustainable Development Policy that the Council is apparently signed up to, be summed up as the councilors concerned knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing, or maybe I have missed something here?</P> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV class=RTE>Alan, in response to your email; there is trust in people, trust in community involvement, trust in councilors and trust in local government and trust in the need to defend the environment against all the vagaries of human decision making systems. </DIV> <DIV class=RTE> </DIV> <DIV class=RTE>There always seems to be a hidden interest (unintentionally, overt or not) trying to bulldozing through what community, green space and local environments we have left! It seems to be part of 20th Century's man and woman governance that we need to stop!</DIV> <DIV class=RTE> </DIV> <DIV class=RTE>Perhaps we could suggest that the Leeds Millennium Square be turned into a tarmac car park and deny its view and space to public use?. That would look lovely! And they want to do this to our open park spaces in the inner city! Back off! </DIV> <DIV class=RTE> </DIV> <DIV class=RTE>Regards </DIV> <DIV class=RTE> </DIV> <DIV class=RTE>Jonathan</DIV> <DIV class=RTE> </DIV> <DIV></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5 2px solid"><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif"> <HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1>
<DIV></DIV>From: <I>Rich T <followfoucault@gmail.com></I><BR>Reply-To: <I>for local activists <activists@healheadingley.org.uk></I><BR>To: <I>a.slomson@leeds.ac.uk,for local activists <activists@healheadingley.org.uk>,William McKinnon <mackius@mac.com></I><BR>CC: <I>justchill@tiscali.co.uk, isobelsidebottom@hotmail.com,barrie.payne1@virgin.net, activists@healheadingley.org.uk,Christine Bethlehem <chris.bethlehem@ntlworld.com></I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: [activists] Woodhouse Moor Car Park Proposal - Oliver Cross article</I><BR>Date: <I>Fri, 05 May 2006 11:18:26 +0100</I><BR>>Alan, you're absolutely right - and this point has been raised<BR>>frequently at Headingley Forum. Unfortunately, despite the coverage<BR>>of our area by bottom-up groups, the Council remains committed to<BR>>top-down - and often, not even that. Richard T<BR>><BR>>At 08:12 05/05/2006, Alan Slomson wrote:<BR>> >This story, the story of the Headingley Run last Sunday, and the problems with<BR>> >Headingley Stadium have a common feature: inadequate consultation of local<BR>> >people by the Council. This seems to me to be a systematic failure which needs<BR>> >to be addressed over and above concerns about particular cases.<BR>> ><BR>> >Councillors are busy people, often doing full time jobs on top of<BR>> >Council work,<BR>> >so the problem needs to be dealt with at the level of Council officers.<BR>> ><BR>> >Given that in the area there are a number of well established community groups<BR>> >with fairly well defined spheres of interest, and that electronic<BR>> >communication<BR>> >is now so easy, it should not be difficult to develop a system where community<BR>> >groups get frequent advance notice of matters that might be of<BR>> >concern to them.<BR>> >Once such a system has been established, it should not take too much effort to<BR>> >operate. But, perhaps more importantly, both Council officials and Councillors<BR>> >need to be firmly committed to this sort of early consultation, and<BR>> >that has to<BR>> >be a real will to implement it.<BR>> >--<BR>> >Alan Slomson<BR>> >20 Grosvenor Park Gardens<BR>> >Leeds<BR>> >LS6 2PL<BR>> >e-mail: a.slomson@leeds.ac.uk<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> >Quoting William McKinnon <mackius@mac.com> on Fri 05 May 2006 07:06:29 BST:<BR>> ><BR>> > > Dear Friends of Woodhouse Moor<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Oliver Cross had a very interesting article in last Friday's YEP about the<BR>> > > proposed car park. In case you didn't see it, I've attached it to this<BR>> > > email.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Regards.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Bill McKinnon<BR>> > > 225 2700<BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > > PS. Mr Cross was one of those who attended last Thursday's drop-in.<BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>><BR>><BR>>_______________________________________________<BR>>--<BR>>activists mailing list<BR>>activists@healheadingley.org.uk<BR>>http://mail.healheadingley.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/activists_healheadingley.org.uk<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV> <P> </P> <P><BR><BR> </P></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif"> <HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1>
<DIV></DIV>From: <I>Heal Secretary <secretary@healheadingley.org.uk></I><BR>To: <I>"Jonathan" <Jonathan's email address></I><BR>Subject: <I>Re: Blank replies</I><BR>Date: <I>Sat, 06 May 2006 20:32:35 +0100</I><BR>>Hi Jonathan<BR>>Thanks for letting me know about this.<BR>>I've just got back from holiday (Why does something odd always have <BR>>to happen when I'm away!)<BR>>I've no idea what this is, but I'll look into it. It may take me a <BR>>bit of tinkering to diagnose the problem.<BR>>I see what you mean about the blank email - I got it too.<BR>>Can you please re-send your message, to the Activists? Please let me <BR>>know if it works this time.<BR>>Many thanks<BR>>Nigel<BR>><BR>><BR>>At 14:26 5/5/06, you wrote:<BR>><BR>>>Hi,<BR>>><BR>>>am I being gaged or is something wrong technically?. When I sent a <BR>>>reply to the acitivist list today ( Re: [activists] Woodhouse Moor <BR>>>Car Park Proposal) the email reply was blank. Is it something with <BR>>>Richard T's email??<BR>>><BR>>>On the blank email was a subscribtion link, which I have tried and <BR>>>I since gor an email saying that an attempt was made to subscribe ( <BR>>>it was me!!)<BR>>><BR>>>Please help as I want to contribute.<BR>>><BR>>>Thanks<BR>>><BR>>>Jonathan<BR>>>07906 973 370<BR>><BR>>Secretary of Heal<BR>>Campaigning for a Sustainable Balanced Community<BR>>www.healheadingley.org.uk<BR>><BR>>If you want to post items of interest to Headingley residents, use <BR>>the Message Board on the web site<BR>><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></div></html>
</x-html>
Secretary of Heal Headingley Campaigning for a Sustainable Balanced Community www.healheadingley.org.uk
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/746f7519ba02fb0d815e59f305c53fa2.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Heal Secretary wrote:
The direct message from my user, Jonathan, is copied below. Can anyone see why Jonathan's mailings would be sent to the list with a blank body?
<snip>
The message is a single HTML part.
What are the Content Filtering settings for your list?
I am guessing that you accept text/html and that convert_html_to_plaintext is Yes. If this is the case, I further suspect that there is some problem with html to plaintext conversion in your Mailman installation.
If this is the case, since this is a hosted cPanel installation, you don't have access to the things you need to diagnose this further.
You could try turning off convert_html_to_plaintext if it is on and then I think the body would go through, but as HTML, not plain text.
-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/746f7519ba02fb0d815e59f305c53fa2.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Mark Sapiro wrote:
I see from your archived post at <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-June/051404.html> that you say you turnd off convert_html_to_plaintext. If it was off when this post came through with a blank body, then I don't know what's happening.
What are all your Content filtering settings?
What do the headers of the post from the list with a blank body look like?
-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ddd7fbf9685cf38b01776f8cf29daf79.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Hi Mark Thank you for this.
The current filtering settings are -
Should Mailman filter the content of list traffic according to the settings below? YES Remove message attachments that have a matching content type. BLANK Remove message attachments that don't have a matching content type. Leave this field blank to skip this filter test. BLANK Remove message attachments that have a matching filename extension A LIST OF EXTENSIONS - EXE ETC Remove message attachments that don't have a matching filename extension. Leave this field blank to skip this filter test BLANK Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part content? YES Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? This conversion happens after MIME attachments have been stripped. NO Action to take when a message matches the content filtering rules. FORWARD TO LIST OWNER
I don't know what half of these mean so I'm none the wiser. If you think it would be a good plan I can turn content filtering off altogether and ask Jonathan to send a new message......
Here's one of Jonathan's mails that was sent to the list with a blank body (between asterisks)
From ???@??? Wed May 31 19:18:38 2006 Return-path: <activists-bounces@healheadingley.org.uk> Envelope-to: secretary@healheadingley.org.uk Delivery-date: Tue, 30 May 2006 21:23:59 +0100 Received: from hopeful9 by colo16.ukhost4u.com with local-bsmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FlAkw-0006Ui-1F for secretary@healheadingley.org.uk; Tue, 30 May 2006 21:23:59 +0100 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on colo16.ukhost4u.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=colo16.ukhost4u.com) by colo16.ukhost4u.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FlAkF-0006Pl-81; Tue, 30 May 2006 21:23:15 +0100 Received: from [65.54.168.45] (helo=hotmail.com) by colo16.ukhost4u.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FlAkA-0006Of-6y for activists@healheadingley.org.uk; Tue, 30 May 2006 21:23:10 +0100 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 30 May 2006 13:23:15 -0700 Message-ID: <BAY113-F35AF17143F677EB453ED2CD2920@phx.gbl> Received: from 65.54.168.200 by by113fd.bay113.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 30 May 2006 20:23:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [62.252.224.13] X-Originating-Email: [Jonathan's email address] X-Sender: Jonathan's email address From: "Jonathan" <Jonathan's email address> To: activists@healheadingley.org.uk Bcc: Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 20:23:10 +0000 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 May 2006 20:23:15.0960 (UTC) FILETIME=[E1DCB780:01C68426] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.7 Subject: [activists] Transport through Headingley X-BeenThere: activists@healheadingley.org.uk X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list Reply-To: for local activists <activists@healheadingley.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: activists-bounces@healheadingley.org.uk
-- activists mailing list activists@healheadingley.org.uk http://mail.healheadingley.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/activists_healheadingley....
Many thanks for any ideas Nigel
Secretary of Heal Headingley Campaigning for a Sustainable Balanced Community www.healheadingley.org.uk
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/746f7519ba02fb0d815e59f305c53fa2.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Heal Secretary wrote:
The net effect of the above is to remove all attachments with filename extensions equal to one of the extensions in the list.
Should Mailman collapse multipart/alternative to its first part content? YES
This could affect your issue. You could try setting it to No. When it is set to yes, Mailman will replace a multipart/alternative part with text/plain and text/html sub parts with just the text/plain part. If that happens to be 'blank' you will get the result below.
However, the original message you posted at <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-August/052525.html> was not structured in this way. It was a simple text/html message.
Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text? This conversion happens after MIME attachments have been stripped. NO
I'm surprised because 'Yes' combined with other problems seems to me to be the most likely cause of this.
That will allow everything to pass through Mailman as sent. Whether or not this is a good idea depends on whether you want to filter the attachments with matching file name extensions.
I would try setting collapse multipart/alternative to No first.
So it was manipulated by content filtering.
And content filtering converted it to a single text/plain part either by collapsing a multipart/alternative part to the first subpart or by converting an html part to plain text.
We think the second thing didn't happen because convert_html_to_plaintext is No. The first thing is not consistent with the message you posted earlier, so only further testing will tell.
Test 1 - set collapse multipart/alternative to No and see what happens. If the post is still blank,
Test 2 - set filter_content.to No.
-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
participants (4)
-
Brad Knowles
-
Dragon
-
Heal Secretary
-
Mark Sapiro