Limit to the Number of Subscribers for each list?
Hi, I have my account hosted on bluehost. I have 5 new email lists that have been transferred to me from other mailman lists on a closing isp.
The problem is there are delays from when a message is receive until it is sent out. Blue host support tells me that mailman only supports up to 150 subscribers per list. Is this true?
What other reason could there be for such a problem. They tell me that phplist doesn't have the problems mailman does.
Is there some response to this I could refer them to.
On 8/29/07 2:52 AM, wittygal at diane@wittygal.com wrote:
Hi, I have my account hosted on bluehost. I have 5 new email lists that have been transferred to me from other mailman lists on a closing isp.
The problem is there are delays from when a message is receive until it is sent out. Blue host support tells me that mailman only supports up to 150 subscribers per list. Is this true?
No. There are people running mailman with thousands of people on a list. I think there is some information on this in FAQ.
What other reason could there be for such a problem. They tell me that phplist doesn't have the problems mailman does.
Other reasons? Misconfiguration by them; resource limits they've applied. Who knows other than them.
-- Larry Stone lstone19@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/
Larry Stone wrote:
On 8/29/07 2:52 AM, wittygal at diane@wittygal.com wrote:
Blue host support tells me that mailman only supports up to 150 subscribers per list. Is this true?
No. There are people running mailman with thousands of people on a list. I think there is some information on this in FAQ.
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.015.htp
-- Mark Sapiro msapiro@value.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
On 8/29/07, wittygal wrote:
The problem is there are delays from when a message is receive until it is sent out. Blue host support tells me that mailman only supports up to 150 subscribers per list. Is this true?
As far as the Mailman code is concerned, there is no hard limit to the number of subscribers you can have. There are performance issues that you are more likely to run into as you try to scale into the hundreds of thousands of subscribers, but there is no hard limit imposed by our code.
To get more of an idea of what is possible with Mailman, see FAQ 1.15 at http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.015.htp.
What other reason could there be for such a problem.
I strongly suspect that they are doing rate-limiting on their mail servers, which is causing problems for Mailman. FAQ 4.51 at http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.051.htp discusses the issue of Mailman and rate-limiting, although it's not directly related to the problem you're having.
They tell me thatphplist doesn't have the problems mailman does.
That's a total load of bull. Some of the largest mailing lists and mailing list servers in the world are running Mailman. I've been a professional Unix system administrator for almost twenty years, and I've been specializing in Internet e-mail administration for about fifteen years, including two years as the Sr. Internet Mail Administrator for America Online. Over the years, I've worked with many different mailing list managers. Until today, I had never heard of this "phplist" program.
I guarantee you that whatever this "phplist" program is, they don't have the number of installations we do, or the scale.
Is there some response to this I could refer them to.
Well, you could first have them read each and every entry in the Mailman FAQ Wizard at http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py, and then have them tell you why they are not properly supporting the product that they have installed and made available to you.
Alternatively, you could find another provider that is more responsive to your requirements. See FAQ 1.17 at http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp for links to lists of alternative providers you may want to take a look at.
-- Brad Knowles brad@shub-internet.org LinkedIn Profile: http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu
Brad Knowles wrote:
On 8/29/07, wittygal wrote:
They tell me thatphplist doesn't have the problems mailman does.
That's a total load of bull.
Agreed.
First, phplist only does one-way (announcement) lists so if you want a discussion list, phplist is not an option.
Second, if phplist on bluehost is able to deliver mail to many recipients faster than Mailman on bluehost, this is a result of conscious or unconscious configuration decisions made by bluehost in the installation of Mailman, phplist and their MTAs. It is not because of any inherent superiority of phplist.
-- Mark Sapiro msapiro@value.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Well, it seemed like a load of bull. Then they suggested I find a special email list provider. Is there such a thing?
And how would I find it. You see I am doing this as a charity thing for about 5 online email groups for debtorsanonymous.org
I thought this should be a no sweat thing since I supposedly can have unlimited email lists under my premium subscription.
Thanks for the info. I am going to try to get back with them with regard to this and point them to the url in question for the faqs. Does anyone have a problem with me copying select portions of your emails on this subject?
-----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro@value.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 8:29 AM To: Brad Knowles; wittygal; mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for eachlist?
Brad Knowles wrote:
On 8/29/07, wittygal wrote:
They tell me thatphplist doesn't have the problems mailman does.
That's a total load of bull.
Agreed.
First, phplist only does one-way (announcement) lists so if you want a discussion list, phplist is not an option.
Second, if phplist on bluehost is able to deliver mail to many recipients faster than Mailman on bluehost, this is a result of conscious or unconscious configuration decisions made by bluehost in the installation of Mailman, phplist and their MTAs. It is not because of any inherent superiority of phplist.
-- Mark Sapiro msapiro@value.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
It is possible that Bluehost is limiting the amount of messages that are sent out from your account per hour. This is called smtp throttling and it is a common practice amount hosting companies. Another issue is that your mailing lists could simply be on a very busy server that is not able to keep up with mail delivery. What is troubling is the answer you received from Bluehost which reveals their ignorance about mailman.
" Then they suggested I find a special email list provider. Is there such a thing?"
Yes there is. We offer a special service for those who run mailman mailing lists. You can read more about our service at http://www.emwd.com/mailman.html.
Kind regards, Brian Carpenter
EMWD - Executive Officer
-----Original Message----- From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com@python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com@python.org] On Behalf Of wittygal Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 12:24 PM To: 'Mark Sapiro' Cc: mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for eachlist?
Well, it seemed like a load of bull. Then they suggested I find a special email list provider. Is there such a thing?
And how would I find it. You see I am doing this as a charity thing for about 5 online email groups for debtorsanonymous.org
I thought this should be a no sweat thing since I supposedly can have unlimited email lists under my premium subscription.
Thanks for the info. I am going to try to get back with them with regard to this and point them to the url in question for the faqs. Does anyone have a problem with me copying select portions of your emails on this subject?
-----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro@value.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 8:29 AM To: Brad Knowles; wittygal; mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for eachlist?
Brad Knowles wrote:
On 8/29/07, wittygal wrote:
They tell me thatphplist doesn't have the problems mailman does.
That's a total load of bull.
Agreed.
First, phplist only does one-way (announcement) lists so if you want a discussion list, phplist is not an option.
Second, if phplist on bluehost is able to deliver mail to many recipients faster than Mailman on bluehost, this is a result of conscious or unconscious configuration decisions made by bluehost in the installation of Mailman, phplist and their MTAs. It is not because of any inherent superiority of phplist.
-- Mark Sapiro msapiro@value.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brian%40emwd.com
Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
On 8/29/07, wittygal wrote:
Well, it seemed like a load of bull. Then they suggested I find a special email list provider. Is there such a thing?
Sure. Some Mailman-specific hosting groups are listed in FAQ 1.17 at http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp, and there are other groups there that do more general hosting but which also provide Mailman hosting as part of their package of services.
And how would I find it. You see I am doing this as a charity thing for about 5 online email groups for debtorsanonymous.org
FAQ 1.17 has a partial list of Mailman-specific hosting sites, but I'm sure there are other sites that have similar lists of providers.
I thought this should be a no sweat thing since I supposedly can have unlimited email lists under my premium subscription.
Funny thing about that word "unlimited". It doesn't actually mean "unlimited" anymore. Now it means:
We don't advertise any limits because we want to get your business
at any cost, but as soon as you exceed the low limits we secretly
place on you, we'll kick your sorry butt out the door as quickly
as we possibly can.It's kind of like that secret no-fly list that no one can ever tell you whether or not you're on the list or how you got on it or how you can get off it, but they won't let you fly if your name is there.
Thanks for the info. I am going to try to get back with them with regard to this and point them to the url in question for the faqs. Does anyone have a problem with me copying select portions of your emails on this subject?
Feel free to quote any of my messages, and if they have any further questions I'll be more than happy to whop them upside the head with a clue-by-four.
-- Brad Knowles brad@shub-internet.org LinkedIn Profile: http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu
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wittygal wrote:
Well, it seemed like a load of bull. Then they suggested I find a special email list provider. Is there such a thing?
And how would I find it. You see I am doing this as a charity thing for about 5 online email groups for debtorsanonymous.org
DreamHost gives away their best account to 501(c)(3) groups and supports MailMan just fine.
- -- Brandon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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wittygal wrote:
Thanks for the info. I am going to try to get back with them with regard to this and point them to the url in question for the faqs. Does anyone have a problem with me copying select portions of your emails on this subject?
Please feel free to quote anything I've posted in this thread or to provide links to the list archives, and thanks for asking.
-- Mark Sapiro msapiro@value.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Wittygal:
Finally one I CAN assist with -:) !
I am 1 of their FIRST premium account and what you need is a Level 3 Tech and Stephen Trelz has been the one who assisted me. You also HAVE to ask to have you outgoing usage opened up from 50/hr (SOP) to 500/hr. It's the little things their FAQs don't say -:).
Also, the following is an excerpt from an announcement the Pres. sent out on 4/17/06 (spec. folder for ALL B.H. communications-:) ):
On behalf of the development team, I'm pleased to announce the release of GNU Mailman 2.1.8. In this release, we have fixed a cross-site scripting security bug in the previous release (CVE-2006-1712), integrated a new version of email library (email-2.5.7), and added bounce processing supports for number of sites and MUAs. It is highly recommended that all sites using 2.1.7 and before should update to this release.
Regards...
Ed www.justbrits.com
Of course, the current version is 2.1.9, and, IIRC the reason we
quickly moved up to that version was a security hole. And 2.1.10 is
pretty close to release.
-- Brad Knowles brad@shub-Internet.org
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 31, 2007, at 8:42 AM, "JB@comcast" justbrits@comcast.net wrote:
Wittygal:
Finally one I CAN assist with -:) !
I am 1 of their FIRST premium account and what you need is a Level 3
Tech and Stephen Trelz has been the one who assisted me. You also
HAVE to ask to have you outgoing usage opened up from 50/hr (SOP) to
500/hr. It's the little things their FAQs don't say -:).Also, the following is an excerpt from an announcement the Pres.
sent out on 4/17/06 (spec. folder for ALL B.H. communications-:) ):On behalf of the development team, I'm pleased to announce the
release of GNU Mailman 2.1.8. In this release, we have fixed a cross-site scripting security bug in the previous release (CVE-2006-1712), integrated a new version of email library (email-2.5.7), and added bounce processing supports for number of sites and MUAs. It is
highly recommended that all sites using 2.1.7 and before should update to
this release.Regards...
Ed www.justbrits.com
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.or...
Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
participants (7)
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Brad Knowles -
Brandon Sussman -
Brian Carpenter -
JB＠comcast -
Larry Stone -
Mark Sapiro -
wittygal