bounces not getting through for processing
Hi,
Sorry if this is a bit vague.
I give an excerpt from a log file today. One of many with slightly different wordings depending on which server was responding. Some reporting me as 'exceeding the limit for bounced messages'.
Oct 30 16:02:39 jason postfix/smtp[11547]: B6883E81A7: to=fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za@fables.co.za, relay=smtp.isdsl.net[196.26.208.193]:25, conn_use=5, delay=45, delays=0.02/0/0.24/45, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host smtp.isdsl.net[196.26.208.193] said: 550 Sorry, I don't accept bounce messages with a invalid recipient. (in reply to RCPT TO command))
(some of the bounce addresses _were_ valid, I checked one, got an answer back from the addressee, but that could be a different issue)
Verp is on as you can see. But on a run last week without verp we were left in the same situation as described here.
There were a lot similar to this. I note that get_bounce_info shows no bounce information when I ran it after the run.
anne@jason:~ ssh$ sudo /usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -r get_bounce_info fables-list Importing get_bounce_info... Running get_bounce_info.get_bounce_info()... Loading list fables-list (unlocked) Bounce info for fables-list list
Finalizing
ditto bounce results for a small test list as well which has deliberate dud addresses on.
Further, since I am running this through a relay, the relevant email account fables-list-bounces@ shows no activity whatsoever today. No bounce mail passed through there.
Not a doubt that I should have had a lot of bounces on this list which has been dormant for months, and the log file did show plenty.
Any idea where I might find the holdup? I suspect either the postfix configuration or something to do with the smtp relay isp. I don't think the bounces get back to the isp email account, are then not downloaded, are then not processed. ???
regards Anne
Anne Wainwright wrote:
Sorry if this is a bit vague.
And my guesses at what's going on may be a bit vague too.
I give an excerpt from a log file today. One of many with slightly different wordings depending on which server was responding. Some reporting me as 'exceeding the limit for bounced messages'.
I don't know about 'exceeding the limit for bounced messages', but see below.
Oct 30 16:02:39 jason postfix/smtp[11547]: B6883E81A7: to=fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za@fables.co.za, relay=smtp.isdsl.net[196.26.208.193]:25, conn_use=5, delay=45, delays=0.02/0/0.24/45, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host smtp.isdsl.net[196.26.208.193] said: 550 Sorry, I don't accept bounce messages with a invalid recipient. (in reply to RCPT TO command))
The recipient here is fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za@fables.co.za which smtp.isdsl.net thinks is an invalid address. Apparently smtp.isdsl.net is one of the names of one of the IPs of default-mx.imaginet.co.za which is the MX for the fables.co.za domain.
(some of the bounce addresses _were_ valid, I checked one, got an answer back from the addressee, but that could be a different issue)
The address that smtp.isdsl.net thinks is invalid is fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za@fables.co.za, not dmorris@inext.co.za.
The most likely reason for this is that Postfix's main.cf on smtp.isdsl.net (if the MTA on smtp.isdsl.net is Postfix) is lacking
recipient_delimiter = +
This is required for VERP to work with the default delimiter (+). It tell Postfix that the recipient fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za is actually fables-list-bounces. Without this, Postfix attempts to deliver to the full VERPed recipient fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za which is invalid.
Verp is on as you can see. But on a run last week without verp we were left in the same situation as described here.
Then there's more to it than what I'm saying. Does smtp.isdsl.net (and the other relays) know how to deliver or relay to all 10 of the fables-list addresses including fables-list-bounces, fables-list-confirm, fables-list-request, fables-list-owner, fables-list-join, fables-list-leave, fables-list-subscribe and fables-list-unsubscribe?
There were a lot similar to this. I note that get_bounce_info shows no bounce information when I ran it after the run.
Because none of the bounce DSNs ever got delivered to Mailman.
[...]
Further, since I am running this through a relay, the relevant email account fables-list-bounces@ shows no activity whatsoever today. No bounce mail passed through there.
I'm not sure what you're saying, but I would expect something in the MTA log of smtp.isdsl.net at Oct 30 16:02:39 because there was at least a connect, a MAIL FROM and a RCPT TO from jason.
OTOH, if all you are saying is that no mail was relayed to fables-list-bounces@, that's because it was all rejected at the relay.
Not a doubt that I should have had a lot of bounces on this list which has been dormant for months, and the log file did show plenty.
Any idea where I might find the holdup? I suspect either the postfix configuration or something to do with the smtp relay isp. I don't think the bounces get back to the isp email account, are then not downloaded, are then not processed. ???
Right. They get rejected as undeliverable by smtp.isdsl.net, either because it doesn't know how to relay for LISTNAME-bounces@fables.co.za or it doesn't recognize that LISTNAME-bounces+XXX@fables.co.za should be relayed the same as LISTNAME-bounces@fables.co.za.
If it's the latter, and you don't control the MTA there and can't teach it that '+' is a valid separator between a local part and a suffix, it might recognize '-' in this role in which case see the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/D4CE.
-- Mark Sapiro mark@msapiro.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Hello, Mark,
Thank you for detailed reply.
I queried this with my isp provider who queried it with IS (Internet Solutions, smtp server & backbone provider) who said that ',' should work. That has me worried, did they misunderstand my query? I'll have to adjust the regex given in the FAQ. Should I try this or is this so unusual as to be unlikely?
I do have all 10 addresses now, just to be sure.
I'll do a complete FAQ on this saga when I'm done!
Anne
On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 14:49:54 -0700 Mark Sapiro mark@msapiro.net wrote:
Anne Wainwright wrote:
Sorry if this is a bit vague.
And my guesses at what's going on may be a bit vague too.
I give an excerpt from a log file today. One of many with slightly different wordings depending on which server was responding. Some reporting me as 'exceeding the limit for bounced messages'.
I don't know about 'exceeding the limit for bounced messages', but see below.
Oct 30 16:02:39 jason postfix/smtp[11547]: B6883E81A7: to=fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za@fables.co.za, relay=smtp.isdsl.net[196.26.208.193]:25, conn_use=5, delay=45, delays=0.02/0/0.24/45, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host smtp.isdsl.net[196.26.208.193] said: 550 Sorry, I don't accept bounce messages with a invalid recipient. (in reply to RCPT TO command))
The recipient here is fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za@fables.co.za which smtp.isdsl.net thinks is an invalid address. Apparently smtp.isdsl.net is one of the names of one of the IPs of default-mx.imaginet.co.za which is the MX for the fables.co.za domain.
(some of the bounce addresses _were_ valid, I checked one, got an answer back from the addressee, but that could be a different issue)
The address that smtp.isdsl.net thinks is invalid is fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za@fables.co.za, not dmorris@inext.co.za.
The most likely reason for this is that Postfix's main.cf on smtp.isdsl.net (if the MTA on smtp.isdsl.net is Postfix) is lacking
recipient_delimiter = +
This is required for VERP to work with the default delimiter (+). It tell Postfix that the recipient fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za is actually fables-list-bounces. Without this, Postfix attempts to deliver to the full VERPed recipient fables-list-bounces+dmorris=inext.co.za which is invalid.
Verp is on as you can see. But on a run last week without verp we were left in the same situation as described here.
Then there's more to it than what I'm saying. Does smtp.isdsl.net (and the other relays) know how to deliver or relay to all 10 of the fables-list addresses including fables-list-bounces, fables-list-confirm, fables-list-request, fables-list-owner, fables-list-join, fables-list-leave, fables-list-subscribe and fables-list-unsubscribe?
There were a lot similar to this. I note that get_bounce_info shows no bounce information when I ran it after the run.
Because none of the bounce DSNs ever got delivered to Mailman.
[...]
Further, since I am running this through a relay, the relevant email account fables-list-bounces@ shows no activity whatsoever today. No bounce mail passed through there.
I'm not sure what you're saying, but I would expect something in the MTA log of smtp.isdsl.net at Oct 30 16:02:39 because there was at least a connect, a MAIL FROM and a RCPT TO from jason.
OTOH, if all you are saying is that no mail was relayed to fables-list-bounces@, that's because it was all rejected at the relay.
Not a doubt that I should have had a lot of bounces on this list which has been dormant for months, and the log file did show plenty.
Any idea where I might find the holdup? I suspect either the postfix configuration or something to do with the smtp relay isp. I don't think the bounces get back to the isp email account, are then not downloaded, are then not processed. ???
Right. They get rejected as undeliverable by smtp.isdsl.net, either because it doesn't know how to relay for LISTNAME-bounces@fables.co.za or it doesn't recognize that LISTNAME-bounces+XXX@fables.co.za should be relayed the same as LISTNAME-bounces@fables.co.za.
If it's the latter, and you don't control the MTA there and can't teach it that '+' is a valid separator between a local part and a suffix, it might recognize '-' in this role in which case see the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/D4CE.
Anne Wainwright wrote:
I queried this with my isp provider who queried it with IS (Internet Solutions, smtp server & backbone provider) who said that ',' should work. That has me worried, did they misunderstand my query?
I'm sure they misunderstood. ',' is a delimiter between email addresses, not a delimiter between a local part and a local part suffix in a single address.
I'll have to adjust the regex given in the FAQ. Should I try this or is this so unusual as to be unlikely?
I do have all 10 addresses now, just to be sure.
OK. First make sure that the fables-list Bounce processing -> bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner setting is Yes.
Then send test messages via the relay server to fables-list-bounces@fables.co.za, fables-list-bounces+xxx@fables.co.za and fables-list-bounces-xxx@fables.co.za. These messages can be very simple, say both subject and body containing just 'test' or something similar.
The message to fables-list-bounces@fables.co.za should definitely result in an unrecognized bounce notice to the list owner. One or both of the others may result in a rejection by the relay, but at least one may get relayed to the Mailman server and result in an unrecognized bounce notice to the list owner.
If none get through, there is still a problem with the relay. If only the fables-list-bounces@fables.co.za message gets through, you can't use VERP. If one of the others gets through, you can use VERP with the corresponding delimiter.
-- Mark Sapiro mark@msapiro.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Hello, Mark,
On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 15:15:29 -0700 Mark Sapiro mark@msapiro.net wrote:
Anne Wainwright wrote:
I queried this with my isp provider who queried it with IS (Internet Solutions, smtp server & backbone provider) who said that ',' should work. That has me worried, did they misunderstand my query?
I'm sure they misunderstood. ',' is a delimiter between email addresses, not a delimiter between a local part and a local part suffix in a single address. Right, it straightway plonks back a message about the address missing a '@'
I'll have to adjust the regex given in the FAQ. Should I try this or is this so unusual as to be unlikely?
I do have all 10 addresses now, just to be sure.
OK. First make sure that the fables-list Bounce processing -> bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner setting is Yes.
Then send test messages via the relay server to fables-list-bounces@fables.co.za, fables-list-bounces+xxx@fables.co.za and fables-list-bounces-xxx@fables.co.za. These messages can be very simple, say both subject and body containing just 'test' or something similar.
The message to fables-list-bounces@fables.co.za should definitely result in an unrecognized bounce notice to the list owner. One or both of the others may result in a rejection by the relay, but at least one may get relayed to the Mailman server and result in an unrecognized bounce notice to the list owner.
If none get through, there is still a problem with the relay. If only the fables-list-bounces@fables.co.za message gets through, you can't use VERP. If one of the others gets through, you can use VERP with the corresponding delimiter. We can't use VERP as neither got through
-bounces messages were being passed to /var/mail/sendmail and stacking up there. They indicated that there was no such address. I never did see the exact fault but it was likely something with the aliases as after checking, tidying, etc, all of a sudden we were up and running with bounce processing operational. All other addresses could be seen to be going, particularly noticeable being the -request address, but -bounces was not processed.
Thank you for the help
Anne
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Anne Wainwright -
Mark Sapiro