Removal of Line Breaks in Replies to Digest Messages
Okay, upon reflection I think I figured out what happened here. I replied to an existing thread but deleted the entirety of the message thread and changed the subject entirely. I thought that started a new message thread but perhaps the list software registers that as a reply to an existing thread. I organize my email client by date and not by thread so I would not see this. Apologizes to all if this is the case.
I'm told by my list subscriber the following:
a. He thinks that the Digest message formatting is messed-up as it originally comes from the list, but he is not sure (reply messages might be messing up the formatting).
b. He is using iPhone and Outlook for Apple email clients.
c. He is also experiencing quote marks (") and apostrophes (') being turned into question marks (?) throughout the text of digest messages.
Is this mess a function of his Apple email clients, or a problem that rests with the Mailman list management software?
Thanks, Michael
*Michael Reeder, LCPC * *Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location* *410-205-2419 / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com* *http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website. *
On 11/17/2020 9:21 PM, Michael Reeder LCPC -- Hygeia Regular wrote:
On 11/17/20 9:21 PM, Michael Reeder LCPC -- Hygeia Regular wrote:
When you reply to a message, your Mail client adds an In-Reply-To: header in your post even if you change the Subject: and message body. It is the In-Reply-To header that says this is a reply to a message in the existing thread.
The replacement of quote marks (") and apostrophes (') with question marks (?) is an issue with the mail client that creates the message. The issue is they aren't ascii quotes and apostrophes. The quotes are unicode left and right double quotes and the apostrophes are unicode right single quotes. These characters are not ascii so they are replaced by question marks in an ascii plain text digest. They should render OK in messages in a MIME format digest, but then the pnone client may not do a reasonable job of rendering a MIME format digest.
As far as whether the digest formatting is "messed up", I'd need to see an actual digest message to comment further.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mark,
Okay -- did not know about the "In Reply To" header. Thank you.
"The replacement of quote marks (") and apostrophes (') with question marks (?) is an issue with the mail client that creates the message. " -- Got it. Thank you. Looks like there is an issue with some Apple email clients (iPhone and Outlook for IOS).
"As far as whether the digest formatting is "messed up", I'd need to see an actual digest message to comment further. "-- Well, that's the thing. I would send it to you, but when he sent me the "messed up" digest, it looked absolutely FINE on both my Android phone and in Thunderbird on Windows 10!!
*I guess my only question at this point would be -- is this common on Apple products? * Thanks, Michael
*Michael Reeder, LCPC * *Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location* *410-205-2419 / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com* *http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website. *
On 11/18/2020 10:15 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
On 11/18/20 12:27 PM, Michael Reeder LCPC -- Hygeia Regular wrote:
To be definitively sure, you could subscribe two additional addresses to the list, one receiving plain text digests and one receiving MIME digests, and see what they get.
Yes. I get reports of some phone clients, Apple IOS clients in particular, being problematic in various ways. If, as you say, the digest looks fine on your Android phone and in Thunderbird on Windows 10, the issue is with the user's phone client and there's probably nothing Mailman can do about it.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Michael,
I wrote a long reply, only to discover that Mark had written it first and better and posted it. :-) This part might be of some use if at least some of your users have sufficiently capable clients.
Michael Reeder LCPC -- Hygeia Regular writes:
I don't have a list of capable software off-hand (except that essentially all clients implemented in Emacs are capable -- but you probably don't want to wish that on your users ;-). However, here are some features that help if present:
Bursting digests: Also called "exploding" or "expanding". The digest message is broken up into individual messages, and threaded and sorted as usual for the client. Possibly filtered, as well. Useful for people who want to (a) thread the messages in the digest with saved messages in a folder or inbox, or (b) save a few messages and discard the rest. Suboptimal for "scan digest and discard it" workflows. Some clients (Outlook 2011) can do this as a filter, but don't seem to have an option to do it from the inbox summary display. Digest-as-folder: The client treats the digest message as a folder (that's exactly what it is!) and threads and sorts the individual messages in that folder as usual. Optimal for scan-and-discard workflows. Suboptimal if you want to thread messages in the folder against messages outside the folder.
Steve
Steve,
Thank you for this info on use of MIME digests. I hope to keep looking into this and put together a short etiquette and user's guide for interested list members.
-- Michael
*Michael Reeder, LCPC * *Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location* *410-205-2419 / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com* *http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website. *
On 11/19/2020 1:30 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
On 11/17/20 9:21 PM, Michael Reeder LCPC -- Hygeia Regular wrote:
When you reply to a message, your Mail client adds an In-Reply-To: header in your post even if you change the Subject: and message body. It is the In-Reply-To header that says this is a reply to a message in the existing thread.
The replacement of quote marks (") and apostrophes (') with question marks (?) is an issue with the mail client that creates the message. The issue is they aren't ascii quotes and apostrophes. The quotes are unicode left and right double quotes and the apostrophes are unicode right single quotes. These characters are not ascii so they are replaced by question marks in an ascii plain text digest. They should render OK in messages in a MIME format digest, but then the pnone client may not do a reasonable job of rendering a MIME format digest.
As far as whether the digest formatting is "messed up", I'd need to see an actual digest message to comment further.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mark,
Okay -- did not know about the "In Reply To" header. Thank you.
"The replacement of quote marks (") and apostrophes (') with question marks (?) is an issue with the mail client that creates the message. " -- Got it. Thank you. Looks like there is an issue with some Apple email clients (iPhone and Outlook for IOS).
"As far as whether the digest formatting is "messed up", I'd need to see an actual digest message to comment further. "-- Well, that's the thing. I would send it to you, but when he sent me the "messed up" digest, it looked absolutely FINE on both my Android phone and in Thunderbird on Windows 10!!
*I guess my only question at this point would be -- is this common on Apple products? * Thanks, Michael
*Michael Reeder, LCPC * *Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location* *410-205-2419 / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com* *http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website. *
On 11/18/2020 10:15 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
On 11/18/20 12:27 PM, Michael Reeder LCPC -- Hygeia Regular wrote:
To be definitively sure, you could subscribe two additional addresses to the list, one receiving plain text digests and one receiving MIME digests, and see what they get.
Yes. I get reports of some phone clients, Apple IOS clients in particular, being problematic in various ways. If, as you say, the digest looks fine on your Android phone and in Thunderbird on Windows 10, the issue is with the user's phone client and there's probably nothing Mailman can do about it.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Michael,
I wrote a long reply, only to discover that Mark had written it first and better and posted it. :-) This part might be of some use if at least some of your users have sufficiently capable clients.
Michael Reeder LCPC -- Hygeia Regular writes:
I don't have a list of capable software off-hand (except that essentially all clients implemented in Emacs are capable -- but you probably don't want to wish that on your users ;-). However, here are some features that help if present:
Bursting digests: Also called "exploding" or "expanding". The digest message is broken up into individual messages, and threaded and sorted as usual for the client. Possibly filtered, as well. Useful for people who want to (a) thread the messages in the digest with saved messages in a folder or inbox, or (b) save a few messages and discard the rest. Suboptimal for "scan digest and discard it" workflows. Some clients (Outlook 2011) can do this as a filter, but don't seem to have an option to do it from the inbox summary display. Digest-as-folder: The client treats the digest message as a folder (that's exactly what it is!) and threads and sorts the individual messages in that folder as usual. Optimal for scan-and-discard workflows. Suboptimal if you want to thread messages in the folder against messages outside the folder.
Steve
Steve,
Thank you for this info on use of MIME digests. I hope to keep looking into this and put together a short etiquette and user's guide for interested list members.
-- Michael
*Michael Reeder, LCPC * *Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location* *410-205-2419 / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com* *http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website. *
On 11/19/2020 1:30 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
participants (3)
-
Mark Sapiro -
Michael Reeder LCPC -- Hygeia Regular -
Stephen J. Turnbull