Re: [Mailman-Users] Correct Mailman setup (was: List adds information to sender's name)
For some reason, you sent this to just me (Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com>). I am replying and including the list (mailman-users@python.org) on the CC.
At Fri, 22 Sep 2017 17:57:36 +0200 luscheina@yahoo.de wrote:
Hi all
I have now read through the web pages Mark Sapiro proposed on Wednesday
- and I am more confused than before about all this. After contacting our hoster (who told me that we are the only one of his clients who uses Mailman and that he can't help me here), I ask the collective of all knowledgeable people to help me configure Mailman (v 2.1.23 on cPanel) so that there are the least possible problems.
There are in total 5 lists:
3 of them are discussion lists for various subjects. All members are allowed to reply to all messages, and all these replies should go to the list / distributed to all members.
2 of them are announcement lists - members should normally not be allowed to post anything; therefore all are set to "moderated".
All lists have members who use various mail domains, so I cannot be sure about any odd behaviour of their mail servers
All lists are more or less working, but every now and then some people complain about something. The most annoying thing is that messages are processed but then queued for up to one hour before they go out. The mail system is on the same virtual server, and the provider has no idea what to do. Otherwise the mail server does not ause problems, any message submitted normally (not via Mailman) goes out nearly instantly. I would appreciate if a knowledgeable person could guide me through the proper setup of these lists.
Thanks, Christian
-- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services
At Fri, 22 Sep 2017 17:57:36 +0200 luscheina@yahoo.de wrote:
Hi all
I have now read through the web pages Mark Sapiro proposed on Wednesday
- and I am more confused than before about all this. After contacting our hoster (who told me that we are the only one of his clients who uses Mailman and that he can't help me here), I ask the collective of all knowledgeable people to help me configure Mailman (v 2.1.23 on cPanel) so that there are the least possible problems.
There are in total 5 lists:
3 of them are discussion lists for various subjects. All members are allowed to reply to all messages, and all these replies should go to the list / distributed to all members.
2 of them are announcement lists - members should normally not be allowed to post anything; therefore all are set to "moderated".
All lists have members who use various mail domains, so I cannot be sure about any odd behaviour of their mail servers
All lists are more or less working
So far, I don't see a problem. For a guide to setting up announcement lists see <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030685>.
, but every now and then some people complain about something. The most annoying thing is that messages are processed but then queued for up to one hour before they go out. The mail system is on the same virtual server, and the provider has no idea what to do. Otherwise the mail server does not ause problems, any message submitted normally (not via Mailman) goes out nearly instantly. I would appreciate if a knowledgeable person could guide me through the proper setup of these lists.
You are not going to be able to find the necessary information to diagnose this issue which requires access to Mailman's logs and the Mail Server logs which are normally not available to customers of a hosted cPanel installation.
What I can tell you is there is nothing in normal list configuration that would cause delays in outgoing mail. The most likely cause of these delays is Mailman's 'out' queue being backlogged. There are multiple posts about this in this list's archives including <https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2016-July/081121.html>. There is also a FAQ at <https://wiki.list.org/x/17892002>.
One thing you can check is if posts are archived almost immediately even though they aren't sent out for some time. This indicates a possibly backlogged 'out' queue or possibly other delays in outgoing mail. If the posts are not archived until they are ultimately sent out, that would indicate the delay is in incoming mail.
It is also possible the outgoing mail server is throttling mail, i.e. limiting the number of messages sent per hour or some such.
The bottom line is if the hosting service won't help you with this, you're stuck. You might find <https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20CPanel> of some interest.
If there are other issues/complaints, please describe both the current and desired behaviors, and perhaps we can offer more advice.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
On 22-Sep-17 16:50, Mark Sapiro wrote:
At Fri, 22 Sep 2017 17:57:36 +0200 luscheina@yahoo.de wrote:
Hi all [Snip] , but every now and then some people complain about something. The most annoying thing is that messages are processed but then queued for up to one hour before they go out. The mail system is on the same virtual server, and the provider has no idea what to do. Otherwise the mail server does not ause problems, any message submitted normally (not via Mailman) goes out nearly instantly. I would appreciate if a knowledgeable person could guide me through the proper setup of these lists.
[Snip]
What I can tell you is there is nothing in normal list configuration that would cause delays in outgoing mail. The most likely cause of these delays is Mailman's 'out' queue being backlogged. There are multiple posts about this in this list's archives including <https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2016-July/081121.html>. There is also a FAQ at <https://wiki.list.org/x/17892002>.
One thing you can check is if posts are archived almost immediately even though they aren't sent out for some time. This indicates a possibly backlogged 'out' queue or possibly other delays in outgoing mail. If the posts are not archived until they are ultimately sent out, that would indicate the delay is in incoming mail.
It is also possible the outgoing mail server is throttling mail, i.e. limiting the number of messages sent per hour or some such. Another common cause is that the RECEIVER is using 'greylisting'. This is an anti-spam technique that some believe is effective. The receiver sends a "temporary failure" when e-mail is received from an unknown or "suspicious" source. If the sender retries in a "reasonable" window, it goes through. Typically a delay of 15-30 minutes but not more than a few hours works. The theory is that spammers won't bother to retry. Usually subsequent e-mails from the same source go through without delay
- for a while.
Also, MTAs have timeouts - a common configuration is for the sending MTA to attempt sending with a short timeout for connect/greeting/helo response. If this times out, the message is queued for a later attempt with longer timeouts. The reasons are that some RECEIVERs intentionally delay responses to SMTP commands in the belief that spammers won't wait (or retry). The sending MTAs with dual timeouts don't want these receivers to slow delivery to "normal" destinations.
If either of these is the case, the sending MTA may be running its queue hourly. Running it every 30 minutes may help. Contacting the receivers to whitelist your sending IP may help.
And there are various e-mail reputation services that will whitelist (or blacklist) senders. Whitelisted senders may bypass greylisting.
All these are under the control of the operator of your sending MTA; they happen after Mailman has queued the mail.
For more on greylisting, see https://www.greylisting.org/ (or just do a web search on e-mail greylisting.
The bottom line is if the hosting service won't help you with this, you're stuck. Unless you find someone willing to let you use a better-configured outgoing mail server, or you run your own (which is not for the faint-hearted).
You might find <https://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20CPanel> of some interest.
If there are other issues/complaints, please describe both the current and desired behaviors, and perhaps we can offer more advice.
At Fri, 22 Sep 2017 17:57:36 +0200 luscheina@yahoo.de wrote:
All lists are more or less working, but every now and then some people complain about something. The most annoying thing is that messages are processed but then queued for up to one hour before they go out.
I think you mean the message for one user is delayed and the message for another is not.
This could happen when sending to gmail servers for recipients in more than one domain. The gmail server will accept for only one domain at a time and temp fail the other recipients. If your mail transport re-tries every 30 minutes, you will have some sent at once, some delayed for 30 minutes, and maybe even some more delayed for multiples of 30 minutes. Access to the maillog would totally clarify whether this is the answer, but I take it you can't see that.
You could have Mailman send to 1 recipient per message --which is what Gmail does!-- but it is so inefficient that it makes me cringe and I have not chosen to implement that yet on our systems.
-- Joseph Brennan Columbia University
participants (4)
-
Joseph Brennan -
Mark Sapiro -
Robert Heller -
tlhackque