Re: [Mailman-Users] Mime conversions - missing carriage returns andoddcharacters
Ryan Steele wrote:
Mark Sapiro wrote:
It is possible that something in Mailman's MimeDel (content filtering) is misrepresenting the character set and causing utf-8 encoded text to be declared as some other character set, but it could also be something else.
Sounds like a fair enough assumption. I guess that could also account for the carriage returns not being evaluated properly?
I don't think so, but I can't be sure.
Do you have convert_html_to_plaintext set to Yes?
Affirmative, I do.
Based on what I see, I don't think that is the problem.
To diagnose this further, we need to see an original message as sent to the list (e.g. a Bcc: of a list post) and the message as received from the list. These need to be raw messages with all MIME headers intact.
Following is an original message as sent to the list, before being munged by MimeDel:
########################################################################################
<Received: headers snipped>
From: someaoluser@aol.com Message-ID: <2d3.3f8b576.313c8b61@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:43:45 EST Subject: Re: [somelist] Building the Field of O.D. into a Profession To: list-of-users@domains.com CC: otheruser@otherdomain.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1141584225" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 <X-Spam-* headers snipped>
Dear David,
This is incomplete. You have copied the message headers, and then apparently the body as displayed by your mail client. I.e., the message is multipart/alternative, but I don't see any part headers for the alternative parts and I only see one body part.
<snip>
########################################################################################
Here is that same message as received by the list, after being munged by MimeDel:
########################################################################################
<Received: headers snipped>
From: someaoluser@aol.com Message-ID: <2d3.3f8b576.313c8b61@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:43:45 EST To: list-of-users@domains.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Cc: otheruser@otherdomain.org Subject: Re: [somelist] Building the Field of O.D. into a Profession X-BeenThere: somelist@lists.company.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: Our email discussion for the godparents of our field <somelist.lists.company.org> List-Unsubscribe: < http://lists.company.org/mailman/listinfo/somelist>, < mailto:somelist-request@lists.company.org?subject=unsubscribe > List-Archive: < http://lists.company.org/mailman/private/somelist> List-Post: < mailto:somelist@lists.company.org> List-Help: < mailto:somelist-request@lists.company.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: < http://lists.company.org/mailman/listinfo/somelist>, < mailto:somelist-request@lists.company.org?subject=subscribe > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Sender: somelist-bounces@lists.company.org Errors-To: somelist-bounces@lists.company.org <X-Spam-* headers snipped>
Dear David, Thank you for your reply. Starting back in 1981 when I <snip> re-writing what became âEURoeThe International O.D. Code of EthicsâEUR?. It is based on comments from key O.D. people from all over <snip>
########################################################################################
Here I may be seeing the whole message. It contains some possibly garbled utf-8 characters, but the Content-Type: header identifies it as utf-8 characher set, so I suspect your mail client is not properly rendering utf-8.
It looks like (I can't be certain because these aren't the raw messages) Mailman has done the normal thing which is select the text/plain alternative and replace the multipart/alternative message body with a body consisting only of the text/plain part. I really need to see the full raw source of the original message to the list (the first message above). I.e., what you see when you select View->Message Source in Thunderbird.
-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mark Sapiro wrote:
Ryan Steele wrote:
Mark Sapiro wrote:
It is possible that something in Mailman's MimeDel (content filtering) is misrepresenting the character set and causing utf-8 encoded text to be declared as some other character set, but it could also be something else.
Sounds like a fair enough assumption. I guess that could also account for the carriage returns not being evaluated properly?
I don't think so, but I can't be sure.
Do you have convert_html_to_plaintext set to Yes?
Affirmative, I do.
Based on what I see, I don't think that is the problem.
To diagnose this further, we need to see an original message as sent to the list (e.g. a Bcc: of a list post) and the message as received from the list. These need to be raw messages with all MIME headers intact.
Following is an original message as sent to the list, before being munged by MimeDel:
########################################################################################
<Received: headers snipped>
From: someaoluser@aol.com Message-ID: <2d3.3f8b576.313c8b61@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:43:45 EST Subject: Re: [somelist] Building the Field of O.D. into a Profession To: list-of-users@domains.com CC: otheruser@otherdomain.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1141584225" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022
<X-Spam-* headers snipped>
Dear David,
This is incomplete. You have copied the message headers, and then apparently the body as displayed by your mail client. I.e., the message is multipart/alternative, but I don't see any part headers for the alternative parts and I only see one body part.
<snip>
########################################################################################
Here is that same message as received by the list, after being munged by MimeDel:
########################################################################################
<Received: headers snipped>
From: someaoluser@aol.com Message-ID: <2d3.3f8b576.313c8b61@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:43:45 EST To: list-of-users@domains.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.8 Cc: otheruser@otherdomain.org Subject: Re: [somelist] Building the Field of O.D. into a Profession X-BeenThere: somelist@lists.company.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: Our email discussion for the godparents of our field <somelist.lists.company.org> List-Unsubscribe: < http://lists.company.org/mailman/listinfo/somelist>, < mailto:somelist-request@lists.company.org?subject=unsubscribe > List-Archive: < http://lists.company.org/mailman/private/somelist> List-Post: < mailto:somelist@lists.company.org> List-Help: < mailto:somelist-request@lists.company.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: < http://lists.company.org/mailman/listinfo/somelist>, < mailto:somelist-request@lists.company.org?subject=subscribe > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Sender: somelist-bounces@lists.company.org Errors-To: somelist-bounces@lists.company.org
<X-Spam-* headers snipped>
Dear David, Thank you for your reply. Starting back in 1981 when I
<snip>
re-writing what became âEURoeThe International O.D. Code of EthicsâEUR?. It is based on comments from key O.D. people from all over
<snip>
########################################################################################
Here I may be seeing the whole message. It contains some possibly garbled utf-8 characters, but the Content-Type: header identifies it as utf-8 characher set, so I suspect your mail client is not properly rendering utf-8.
It looks like (I can't be certain because these aren't the raw messages) Mailman has done the normal thing which is select the text/plain alternative and replace the multipart/alternative message body with a body consisting only of the text/plain part. I really need to see the full raw source of the original message to the list (the first message above). I.e., what you see when you select View->Message Source in Thunderbird.
I appreciate your continued help on this Mark. I apologize about the pre-garbled message - I simply copied it from the information I requested from the client without checking to see that it contained part boundaries within the body as well. I'm not even sure it's possible in Outlook to get this information (I researched/looked for a little while to no avail), so I'm going to set up an Outlook installation, mimicking the UTF-8 stuff, and send it to a test list I've got and my own personal account, which is set up using Thunderbird. Then I can just ctrl+u to get the message source pre-garbling. I'll post to the list once I've got this all set up. Thanks!
Ryan
--
Ryan Steele
Systems Administrator steele@agora-net.com
AgoraNet, Inc. (302) 224-2475
314 E. Main Street, Suite 1 (302) 224-2552 (fax)
Newark, DE 19711 http://www.agora-net.com
Ryan Steele wrote:
I'm not even sure it's possible in Outlook to get this information (I researched/looked for a little while to no avail)
In Outlook Express, you get the message properties from the File menu or by right-clicking the message in the list of messages pane and selecting properties. In the properties dialog, there is a details tab and on that, a 'message source' button.
I'm sure it's not exactly like that in Outlook, but it's something similar.
-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Mark Sapiro wrote:
Ryan Steele wrote:
I'm not even sure it's possible in Outlook to get this information (I researched/looked for a little while to no avail)
In Outlook Express, you get the message properties from the File menu or by right-clicking the message in the list of messages pane and selecting properties. In the properties dialog, there is a details tab and on that, a 'message source' button.
I'm sure it's not exactly like that in Outlook, but it's something similar.
Mark,
It appears the client who got a copy of the pre-garbled message uses Eudora (I didn't know people still used Eudora ^_^), so I've sent him some instructions on how to go about getting the message source from it, and will post back accordingly. Again, thank you for your help!
Best Regards, Ryan
--
Ryan Steele
Systems Administrator steele@agora-net.com
AgoraNet, Inc. (302) 224-2475
314 E. Main Street, Suite 1 (302) 224-2552 (fax)
Newark, DE 19711 http://www.agora-net.com
At 4:37 PM -0500 3/2/07, Ryan Steele wrote:
It appears the client who got a copy of the pre-garbled message uses Eudora (I didn't know people still used Eudora ^_^),
I've been using Eudora since the version 1.x days.
so I've sent himsome instructions on how to go about getting the message source from it,
With the message open in a separate window, click on the "Blahblahblah" icon (it really does say that), and that will show you all the headers and the full message structure. From there, you should be able to cut-n-paste the message precisely as it was received, with everything intact.
and will post back accordingly. Again, thank you for your help!
-- Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>
participants (3)
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Brad Knowles -
Mark Sapiro -
Ryan Steele