On 01/12/2018 07:43 AM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:

Is this live sample of an Uncaught bounce notification useful to forward to developers to extend pattern matching.

http://berklix.com/~jhs/tmp/mailman/uncaught_bounce_notification/1

Thank you for your report. In this case, the message that is an "unrecognized bounce" is not an actual bounce of a list message. It is a message (looks like spam) sent directly to the gea-chat-bounces@... address. This happens from time to time, but short of Mailman trying to recognize spam sent to the -bounces address, there's nothing we can do, and spam recognition and filtering is better done at the incoming MTA level.

-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

Mark Sapiro wrote: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 10:10:34 -0800

On 01/12/2018 07:43 AM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:

...

Is this live sample of an Uncaught bounce notification useful to forward to developers to extend pattern matching.

http://berklix.com/~jhs/tmp/mailman/uncaught_bounce_notification/1

Thank you for your report. In this case, the message that is an "unrecognized bounce" is not an actual bounce of a list message. It is a message (looks like spam)

Thanks Mark, It's not spam, but a bilingual German & English change of address, presumably from an auto responder from a subscribed address (I checked). as per From: Dave Dowdy <dddowdy@tripled.de>

sent directly to the gea-chat-bounces@...

Which I assume it got from list header of previous post to list: Errors-to: gea-chat-bounces@mailman.berklix.org Sender: "Gea-chat" <gea-chat-bounces@mailman.berklix.org>

address. This happens from time to time, but short of Mailman trying to recognize spam sent to the -bounces address, there's nothing we can do, and spam recognition and filtering is better done at the incoming MTA level.

OK, I accept that spam filtering is best left to other tools, but this is not spam, but an auto responce from a subscribed address, so if mailman could recognise it automaticaly it would be nice.

From: Grant Taylor Fri, 12 Jan 2018 11:16:46 -0700 (19:16 CET)

...

Is this live sample of an Uncaught bounce notification useful to forward to developers to extend pattern matching.

http://berklix.com/~jhs/tmp/mailman/uncaught_bounce_notification/1

I highly doubt it.

The bounce that is in the email you linked to looks to be more an auto-reply than an actual bounce.

The message that Mailman is considering to be an uncaught bounce does not have any of the typical hallmarks of any DSNs or MDNs that I've seen.

• It is a single text/plain, not the expected multipart/report.
• It is auto-replied (vacation), not auto-generated (failure).
• It looks like a message that a human wrote (in two languages.)
• It has an In-Reply-To header, which I've never seen in DSNs.

My opinion is that this is the exact type of use case for a bounce message to be escalated to a human.

Thanks. At berklix.org I have no time for subscribers who consume list owners' time with auto responders, I like mailman to auto detect automatic response noise, & count & auto unsubscribe continuing noisy subscrbers.

In case the sample is of use I will leave it here for a bit: http://berklix.com/~jhs/tmp/mailman/uncaught_bounce_notification/1

Cheers, Julian

Julian H. Stacey, Computer Consultant, BSD Linux Unix Systems Engineer, Munich http://berklix.eu/brexit/ UK stole 3,700,000 votes; 700,000 from Brits in EU. Last time Britain denied votes led to American War of Independence. http://berklix.eu/queen/ Petition to get votes back.

Hi, Reference:

From: Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 11:36:50 -0800

Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 01/30/2018 07:48 AM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:

...

Mark Sapiro wrote: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 10:10:34 -0800

...

Thank you for your report. In this case, the message that is an "unrecognized bounce" is not an actual bounce of a list message. It is a message (looks like spam)

Thanks Mark, It's not spam, but a bilingual German & English change of address, presumably from an auto responder from a subscribed address (I checked).

Thank you for the clarification.

...

...

Thanks. At berklix.org I have no time for subscribers who consume list owners' time with auto responders, I like mailman to auto detect automatic response noise, & count & auto unsubscribe continuing noisy subscrbers.

In case the sample is of use I will leave it here for a bit: http://berklix.com/~jhs/tmp/mailman/uncaught_bounce_notification/1

It's hard enough to recognize all the various non-compliant messages which are actually bounces of list mail and extract the bouncing address(es) from them.

While I sympathize with the problem of autoresponders replying to the list or the list-bounces address, to try to actually recognize such messages as what they are and attribute them to the actual list member is a task too daunting for me to consider.

For autoresponses to the list, you could use header_filter_rules to match things like auto-submitted or auto-replied and discard such messages, but that won't work for messages to the -bounces address.

You can chose to forward such messages to the list owners or ignore them,

OK, good idea, I'll see what I can set up to ignore

but to ask Mailman to determine the responsible list member and score a bounce is more than I'm willing to try to do.

Thanks, sure, no problem. Just posted it in case it might have been an easy case to catch.

Cheers, Julian

Julian H. Stacey, Computer Consultant, BSD Linux Unix Systems Engineer, Munich http://berklix.eu/brexit/ UK stole 3,700,000 votes; 700,000 from Brits in EU. Last time Britain denied votes led to American War of Independence. http://berklix.eu/queen/ Petition to get votes back.