Thank you for the information - Is there any workaround for people locked into Microsoft products? This is a client of ours, and I don't know if asking her to go to Thunderbird or something else is an option.

More importantly, if she sends something out as "awake-bounce", does that mean that any emails replying to the list will bounce?

And finally, I'm on Outlook 2003, why am I not seeing the same bug with this list?

Thanks, Matt

-----Original Message----- From: Stephen J. Turnbull [mailto:stephen@xemacs.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:52 PM To: Memmott @ HitCatcher.com Cc: mailman-users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Emails coming through as "maillist-bounces" - is this normal?

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"memmott" == memmott <@ HitCatcher.com" <memmott@hitcatcher.com>> writes:

memmott> A client of ours has a mailman list set up called
memmott> awake@domain.org. For some reason, when anybody posts to
memmott> this list, the return address of the list comes across as
memmott> "awake-bounces@domain.org
memmott> [mailto:awake-bounces@domain.org] On Behalf Of firstname
memmott> lastname"

AFAIK this is an Outlook-specific bug, and not a Mailman issue. What is happening is that Outlook is ignoring the "From" header and using either the "Sender" header or the envelope sender as the return address. This is in violation of the Internet standards for mail clients.

I realize that it's hard to get users to change their mail clients, but that is the right solution to this problem.

memmott> Anyways, is this the default behavior/ Is there any way
memmott> to force it to send out emails as awake@domain.org and
memmott> not awake-bounces?

Mailman does not "send out mail as itself" in the default configuration; it simply forwards the mail and leaves the author's address in place. However, because it is sending mail to many addresses which may or may not be valid, it lists itself as the "Sender" so that delivery problems will be referred to Mailman, and not to the author.

It is not possible to configure Mailman to use a different Sender. This is to protect your list from being spammed by returns of undeliverable mail.

-- School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Ask not how you can "do" free software business; ask what your business can "do for" free software.

Memmott @ HitCatcher.com wrote:

More importantly, if she sends something out as "awake-bounce", does that mean that any emails replying to the list will bounce?

I'm not sure what scenario you're envisioning here, but any mail sent to the listname-bounces address will be processed as a bounce. Usually this results in an 'unrecognized bounce' which may be reported to the list owner depending on bounce processing settings. I'm not sure, but in some cases, it may be actually registered as a bounce for the person who sent it.

And finally, I'm on Outlook 2003, why am I not seeing the same bug with this list?

If you're not seeing mail from this list as being "From: mailman-users-bounces+memmott=hitcatcher.com@python.org on behalf of the_actual_address_in_From:", maybe it has to do with the VERPed address or maybe you've stumbled on the magic way to turn this off in Outlook. If the latter, we'd like to know.

-- Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan