Re: [Mailman-Users] Why do my posts to own mailman list disappear.
Thank you Mark. About Vette list, I don't know if I have shell access. I have CPanel, and that is all I have used. Any way to check?
I will, in the meantime, try another subject, though somehow I don't think that is it, as I havenever set anything to discard. Anyway to check what my settings are within mailman, such as if I marked my name for automatic deletion by mistake?
paul
On 08/20/2015 06:24 PM, Paul Arenson/tokyoprogressive wrote:
Thank you Mark. About Vette list, I don't know if I have shell access. I have CPanel, and that is all I have used. Any way to check?
On cPanel, if you can access the file system, you'll find Mailman's logs in /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/logs/.
See http://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20CPanel.
Look at all the following settings in the list admin UI for Discard actions
Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> member_moderation_action Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> dmarc_moderation_action Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> discard_these_nonmembers Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> generic_nonmember_action Privacy options... -> Spam filters -> header_filter_rules Content filtering -> filter_action
If there are no Discard actions in those, look at
Non-digest options -> scrub_nondigest
If this is Yes, it is possible that your posts are HTML only and being discarded by the scrubber.
-- Mark Sapiro mark@msapiro.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Thank you, Mark.
I looked in Cpanel and could see no directory starting with /usr/. I have a reseller account and nangoku-jiyu-jin.net http://nangoku-jiyu-jin.net/ is a subset of turnlefthostimg.org http://turnlefthostimg.org/, but for now I am looking in the cpanel for nangoku-jiyu-jin.net http://nangoku-jiyu-jin.net/. Again, no such directory in that CPanel. I tried looking in root, etc. but do not see such a name as /usr/.
Then I figured out my FTP login and got in using the Transmit program. I see a /usr/ folder at the end of a very long list of folders and files: .bash.logout —
-- cpanel folder
public_ftp public_html ssl tmp usr www
I click on usr and get Could not change directory to /usr Server said can’t change directory to /usr: No such directory. Error -125: remote chdir failed.
There is a cpanel folder but that doesn’t seem to help.
Am I looking in the wrong place?
Thanks, Paul
Further to the above, I have tested and found NOTHING goes through…I can’t even get a request to subscribe through. It is effectively dead!!!
What to do?
Paul Arenson/tokyoprogressive paul@tokyoprogressive.org
Begin forwarded message:
From: Paul Arenson/tokyoprogressive paul@tokyoprogressive.org Subject: Re: Why do my posts to own mailman list disappear. Date: August 22, 2015 at 2:26:22 PM GMT+9 To: "mailman-users@python.org" mailman-users@python.org
Thank you, Mark.
I looked in Cpanel and could see no directory starting with /usr/. I have a reseller account and nangoku-jiyu-jin.net http://nangoku-jiyu-jin.net/ is a subset of turnlefthostimg.org http://turnlefthostimg.org/, but for now I am looking in the cpanel for nangoku-jiyu-jin.net http://nangoku-jiyu-jin.net/. Again, no such directory in that CPanel. I tried looking in root, etc. but do not see such a name as /usr/.
Then I figured out my FTP login and got in using the Transmit program. I see a /usr/ folder at the end of a very long list of folders and files: .bash.logout —
-- cpanel folder
public_ftp public_html ssl tmp usr www
I click on usr and get Could not change directory to /usr Server said can’t change directory to /usr: No such directory. Error -125: remote chdir failed.
There is a cpanel folder but that doesn’t seem to help.
Am I looking in the wrong place?
Thanks, Paul
On 08/22/2015 12:01 AM, Paul Arenson/tokyoprogressive wrote:
Further to the above, I have tested and found NOTHING goes through…I can’t even get a request to subscribe through. It is effectively dead!!!
What to do?
You can see the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/4030723, but given your lack of access to the underlying Mailman installation, that may not help.
As discussed in the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/4030641 (aka http://wiki.list.org/DOC/Mailman%20and%20CPanel), we probably can't help either.
As Steve suggests, you need to take this up with the people who support the physical machine that hosts your Mailman installation.
-- Mark Sapiro mark@msapiro.net The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Paul Arenson/tokyoprogressive writes:
I looked in Cpanel and could see no directory starting with /usr/.
cPanel won't give you access to that, I'm pretty sure. You need to have shell access to the host or virtual machine. If you don't know if you have shell access, you probably don't. Large hosting services tend to be quite stingy about handing out shell access.
I have a reseller account
What does that mean? Aha, I see. *You* are turnlefthosting.org, but the PTR says your IP is assigned to 100tb.com, so you're the reseller for somebody who actually runs the hardware.
A little bit of browsing the related DNS shows quite a bit of a mess. None of the published domains properly roundtrip A -> PTR -> A, they just lead into a maze of little twisty passages all alike. That doesn't necessarily cause a problem by itself, but it often makes problems harder to diagnose.
and nangoku-jiyu-jin.net http://nangoku-jiyu-jin.net/ is a subset of turnlefthostimg.org http://turnlefthostimg.org/,
I think you're going to have to ask your upstream for help on this.
That said there are a few long shots you could try to diagnose it yourself. One is a manual transaction with the mailserver and see if it's being rejected at the SMTP level.
Another thing I noticed is that you typoed "turnlefthosting.org" as "turnlefthostimg.org" in the above. Is it possible that you typoed a host or list name somewhere in a recent configuration ichange?
Do you have a personal mailbox on nangoku-jiyu-jin.net? If so, does that work?
I suppose you are the owner of your lists. Have you tried writing to <listname>-owner@nangoku-jiyu-jin.net? It should forward to you.
According to the page at http://www.nangoku-jiyu-jin.net/mailman/listinfo/mailman, the mailman@ list is hosted by dionysus.thewebhostserver.com, and the owner is root@dionysus.thewebhostserver.com. This is probably typical of cPanel (which has its own way of handling virtual hosting), but you should check your own listinfo and admin pages to be sure the virtual hosting is working correctly and everything points to nangoku-jiyu-jin.net. (You may have trouble finding the proper Mailman interface, though, because cPanel has its own idiosyncratic management interface, and may even make the original inaccessible.)
Are your lists archived?
Then I figured out my FTP login and got in using the Transmit program.
I don't think this will help. Most FTP server software is hard to secure, and standard practice of hosting systems is to chroot them (that means that only a part of the filesystem is visible to the FTP server, and in fact to any programs run by the FTP server). chroots are almost impossible to break unless you have shell access (which is one reason why hosting services are kechi about handing out shell).
I click on usr and get Could not change directory to /usr Server said can’t change directory to /usr: No such directory. Error -125: remote chdir failed.
That's bizarre. I wonder if your host knows what it's doing.
There is a cpanel folder but that doesn’t seem to help.
I'm not surprised.
Good luck,
Steve
Thank you Stephen…..
On Aug 22, 2015, at 8:22 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull stephen@xemacs.org wrote:
Paul Arenson/tokyoprogressive writes:
I looked in Cpanel and could see no directory starting with /usr/.
Stephen:
cPanel won't give you access to that, I'm pretty sure. You need to have shell access to the host or virtual machine. If you don't know if you have shell access, you probably don't. Large hosting services tend to be quite stingy about handing out shell access.
I guess maybe I don’t. Just normal FTP.
turnlefthosting.org http://turnlefthosting.org/ was my idea to run a simple hosting service. With reseller hosting, in my case I don’t sell anything, but donate webspace to NPOs. Because it is a resller account with what I think it is called WHM, I create space for their domains. They get their own CPanel.
So turnlefthosting.org http://turnlefthosting.org/ also hosts nangoku-jiyu-jin.net http://nangoku-jiyu-jin.net/, gale-sig.org http://gale-sig.org/, welljapan.org http://welljapan.org/, tokyoprogressive.org.uk http://tokyoprogressive.org.uk/.
In fact, I realize now I don’t need all this complexity. I could do the same thing with a regular account and add-on domains.
But as I have it, I can create lists for the different domains using their version of CPanel and Softaculous.
I have a reseller account
What does that mean? Aha, I see. *You* are turnlefthosting.org, but the PTR says your IP is assigned to 100tb.com, so you're the reseller for somebody who actually runs the hardware.
Actually I am not sure what PTR is…..but my reseller hosting is just that, I pay for space from EZPZ and then can do as described above.
A little bit of browsing the related DNS shows quite a bit of a mess. None of the published domains properly roundtrip A -> PTR -> A, they just lead into a maze of little twisty passages all alike. That doesn't necessarily cause a problem by itself, but it often makes problems harder to diagnose.
I see. Not sure exactly what that means….but thanks...
and nangoku-jiyu-jin.net http://nangoku-jiyu-jin.net/ is a subset of turnlefthostimg.org http://turnlefthostimg.org/,
I think you're going to have to ask your upstream for help on this.
Ok...
That said there are a few long shots you could try to diagnose it yourself. One is a manual transaction with the mailserver and see if it's being rejected at the SMTP level.
What would I need to do?
Another thing I noticed is that you typoed "turnlefthosting.org" as "turnlefthostimg.org" in the above. Is it possible that you typoed a host or list name somewhere in a recent configuration ichange?
Nothing changed at all in my list. It was working with no problems for 2 years. Recently I have been getting a lot of spam, so when a sufficient number had built up I went in and got rid of it using BAN so-and-so, DISCARD, so and so…
I am suspicious that I did something at this level, but can’t see anything that would cause that problem….
Do you have a personal mailbox on nangoku-jiyu-jin.net? If so, does that work?
Yes, both paul@nangoku-jiyu-jin.net mailto:paul@nangoku-jiyu-jin.net and paul@turnlefthosting.org mailto:paul@turnlefthosting.org work when sent mail from another address.
BUT it is going on 5 minutes that I sent mail FROM each of those addresses to themselves and they did NOT arrive.
An SMTP level error?
They show up in their respective SENT folders and I get no error message.
This sounds like NOT a MAILMAN problem…
The last time I used the nangoku-jiyu-jin account to send was actually to mailman in July for the newsletter, which went through, so something has happened in the last month to affect SENDING from my domains it seems.
I suppose you are the owner of your lists. Have you tried writing to <listname>-owner@nangoku-jiyu-jin.net? It should forward to you.
Just tried, from a different domain, and am still waiting for a response. Suggests it is not ONLY an SMPT problem?
According to the page at http://www.nangoku-jiyu-jin.net/mailman/listinfo/mailman, the mailman@ list is hosted by dionysus.thewebhostserver.com, and the owner is root@dionysus.thewebhostserver.com. This is probably typical of cPanel (which has its own way of handling virtual hosting), but you should check your own listinfo and admin pages to be sure the virtual hosting is working correctly and everything points to
nangoku-jiyu-jin.net. (You may have trouble finding the proper Mailman interface, though, because cPanel has its own idiosyncratic management interface, and may even make the original inaccessible.)
This is it, right?
http://nangoku-jiyu-jin.net/mailman/listinfo/tokyoprogressive_nangoku-jiyu-j... http://nangoku-jiyu-jin.net/mailman/listinfo/tokyoprogressive_nangoku-jiyu-j...
webhostserver is the name EZPZ (my webhosting provider) assigns. I am not sure about the dionysus….
Are your lists archived?
yes, here:
http://nangoku-jiyu-jin.net/pipermail/tokyoprogressive_nangoku-jiyu-jin.net/ http://nangoku-jiyu-jin.net/pipermail/tokyoprogressive_nangoku-jiyu-jin.net/
Then I figured out my FTP login and got in using the Transmit program.
I don't think this will help. Most FTP server software is hard to secure, and standard practice of hosting systems is to chroot them (that means that only a part of the filesystem is visible to the FTP server, and in fact to any programs run by the FTP server). chroots are almost impossible to break unless you have shell access (which is one reason why hosting services are kechi about handing out shell).
You are in Japan by any chance? You know the term “kechi”. There is an historian on Japanese history with your name, but wait, there is an academic at Tsukuba with the same name. (I was there for two years starting in 2009 or 10).
I click on usr and get Could not change directory to /usr Server said can’t change directory to /usr: No such directory. Error -125: remote chdir failed.
That's bizarre. I wonder if your host knows what it's doing.
I wonder….EZPZ is pretty big, but i guess that doesn’t necessarily mean anything….Also, this is an installation from the Softaculous package, so I doubt they even support it.
There is a cpanel folder but that doesn’t seem to help.
I'm not surprised.
Good luck,
Steve
Thanks for all the brainstorming.
paul
Paul Arenson/tokyoprogressive writes:
Actually I am not sure what PTR is…..but my reseller hosting is just that, I pay for space from EZPZ and then can do as described above.
Ah, sorry. PTR is the pointer record from a numeric IP address to a human-readable domain name.
I see. Not sure exactly what that means….but thanks...
If you don't know, and don't care, no problem. If you want the long story, just ask. :-)
That said there are a few long shots you could try to diagnose it yourself. One is a manual transaction with the mailserver and see if it's being rejected at the SMTP level.
What would I need to do?
Give me an existing address, which you already did. :-) I just sent you a test message from steve@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp, and it was accepted "OK" by nangoku-jiyu-jin-net (which again identified itself as dionysus). So it's not a problem at the incoming SMTP level, mail is going in to the host.
Nothing changed at all in my list.
No changes to the host configuration (general spam filters, etc) that you know of, either, right?
It was working with no problems for 2 years. Recently I have been getting a lot of spam, so when a sufficient number had built up I went in and got rid of it using BAN so-and-so, DISCARD, so and so…
You mean in the Mailman moderation interface for the list, right? Theoretically you could have sent mail, it got spamtrapped but you didn't notice the your post never appeared on the list, you banned the author and didn't notice it was you, etc, etc. Doesn't seem likely.
It would be much more likely if you entered patterns by hand in the Privacy -> {Sender,Recipient,Spam} Filter screens. (I don't know if cPanel has those, that's what they are called in unmodified Mailman.) But I guess you didn't do that?
Yes, both paul@nangoku-jiyu-jin.net mailto:paul@nangoku-jiyu-jin.net and paul@turnlefthosting.org mailto:paul@turnlefthosting.org work when sent mail from another address.
BUT it is going on 5 minutes that I sent mail FROM each of those addresses to themselves and they did NOT arrive.
How do you do that? By setting the From and To addresses in your local mail client, and sending via smtp.comcast.net? Or do you have webmail running on nangoku-jiyu-jin.net, or ... ?
They show up in their respective SENT folders and I get no error message.
Do you have a copy of an old message sent through your list, with all headers intact (I want to look at the Received headers)? I don't need the content, just the headers, but if the content is innocuous, just forward the whole message to me.
This sounds like NOT a MAILMAN problem…
I agree.
http://nangoku-jiyu-jin.net/mailman/listinfo/tokyoprogressive_nangoku-jiyu-j...
Everything looks good there. Not that there's all that much, but it looks like the admin addresses etc in the mailto links are right and the archive link works, and the admin link works (although as expected it's not very helpful since I can't log in).
Are your lists archived?
Thanks, I found them. Unfortunately, they don't have the trace headers (Received) in them (and they wouldn't have the outgoing hops anyway). So they weren't much help.
You are in Japan by any chance? You know the term “kechi”. There is an historian on Japanese history with your name, but wait, there is an academic at Tsukuba with the same name. (I was there for two years starting in 2009 or 10).
I'm the latter, in the Policy and Planning Sciences department.
I wonder….EZPZ is pretty big, but i guess that doesn’t necessarily mean anything….Also, this is an installation from the Softaculous package, so I doubt they even support it.
How do you install something unsupported if you don't have a shell account? I'm curious because maybe you do have a shell account but don't know it. :-)
Steve
Thanks for your message, Steven.
On 2015/08/24, at 1:44, Stephen J. Turnbull stephen@xemacs.org wrote:
Paul Arenson/tokyoprogressive writes:
Actually I am not sure what PTR is…..but my reseller hosting is just that, I pay for space from EZPZ and then can do as described above.
Ah, sorry. PTR is the pointer record from a numeric IP address to a human-readable domain name.
I see. Not sure exactly what that means….but thanks...
If you don't know, and don't care, no problem. If you want the long story, just ask. :-)
Thanks....
That said there are a few long shots you could try to diagnose it yourself. One is a manual transaction with the mailserver and see if it's being rejected at the SMTP level.
What would I need to do?
Give me an existing address, which you already did. :-) I just sent you a test message from steve@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp, and it was accepted "OK" by nangoku-jiyu-jin-net (which again identified itself as dionysus). So it's not a problem at the incoming SMTP level, mail is going in to the host.
Right. I received it. I responded once from the same account. And once from the Tokyoprogressive account. I believe ONLY the one I sent from Tokyoprogressive went through, pointing to a SENDING problem from nangoku-jiyu-jin and maybe also turnlefthosting.org. Tokyoprogressive would be unaffected because it is a totally different provider.
Nothing changed at all in my list.
No changes to the host configuration (general spam filters, etc) that you know of, either, right?
It was working with no problems for 2 years. Recently I have been getting a lot of spam, so when a sufficient number had built up I went in and got rid of it using BAN so-and-so, DISCARD, so and so…
You mean in the Mailman moderation interface for the list, right? Theoretically you could have sent mail, it got spamtrapped but you didn't notice the your post never appeared on the list, you banned the author and didn't notice it was you, etc, etc. Doesn't seem likely.
It would be much more likely if you entered patterns by hand in the Privacy -> {Sender,Recipient,Spam} Filter screens. (I don't know if cPanel has those, that's what they are called in unmodified Mailman.) But I guess you didn't do that?
No, and everything I do though in mailman is in the mailman program. Almost never touch cpanel.
Yes, both paul@nangoku-jiyu-jin.net mailto:paul@nangoku-jiyu-jin.net and paul@turnlefthosting.org mailto:paul@turnlefthosting.org work when sent mail from another address.
BUT it is going on 5 minutes that I sent mail FROM each of those addresses to themselves and they did NOT arrive.
How do you do that? By setting the From and To addresses in your local mail client, and sending via smtp.comcast.net? Or do you have webmail running on nangoku-jiyu-jin.net, or ... ?
On my Mac in my mail client. There is a web interface in cpanel, but I have rarely used it.
They show up in their respective SENT folders and I get no error message.
Do you have a copy of an old message sent through your list, with all headers intact (I want to look at the Received headers)? I don't need the content, just the headers, but if the content is innocuous, just forward the whole message to me.
Yes. When I get home I can send you the July message, which went through. In mailman's archives it shows up with the html unreadable, but in a mail client it works.
This sounds like NOT a MAILMAN problem…
I agree.
http://nangoku-jiyu-jin.net/mailman/listinfo/tokyoprogressive_nangoku-jiyu-j...
Everything looks good there. Not that there's all that much, but it looks like the admin addresses etc in the mailto links are right and the archive link works, and the admin link works (although as expected it's not very helpful since I can't log in).
I could enable that if need be.
Are your lists archived?
Thanks, I found them. Unfortunately, they don't have the trace headers (Received) in them (and they wouldn't have the outgoing hops anyway). So they weren't much help.
You are in Japan by any chance? You know the term “kechi”. There is an historian on Japanese history with your name, but wait, there is an academic at Tsukuba with the same name. (I was there for two years starting in 2009 or 10).
I'm the latter, in the Policy and Planning Sciences department.
Dozo,yoroshiku. I was at the language center and also taught the head of the nursing dept privately as my wife is also a nurse.
I wonder….EZPZ is pretty big, but i guess that doesn’t necessarily mean anything….Also, this is an installation from the Softaculous package, so I doubt they even support it.
How do you install something unsupported if you don't have a shell account? I'm curious because maybe you do have a shell account but don't know it. :-)
In Cpanel they have something called Softaculous. Previously they used something called Fantastico. I guess they are a collection of auto installers. So you can find Joomla, Mailman, etc. all located there.
Thanks,
paul
Steve
Paul Arenson/tokyoprogressive writes:
Right. I received it.
I responded once from the same account. And once from the Tokyoprogressive account.
To "steve@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp"?
I don't see either one yet, but that could be my network. The university just upgraded the network and past experience suggests things are likely to be unreliable here until New Year's.
I believe ONLY the one I sent from Tokyoprogressive went through, pointing to a SENDING problem from nangoku-jiyu-jin and maybe also turnlefthosting.org. Tokyoprogressive would be unaffected because it is a totally different provider.
If you got (temporary) bounces sending to "stephen@xemacs.org", that is probably due to "greylisting" (an antispam measure) at xemacs.org.
No, and everything I do though in mailman is in the mailman program. Almost never touch cpanel.
OK, that's helpful to know in general, although it doesn't change any immediate diagnosis.
On my Mac in my mail client. There is a web interface in cpanel, but I have rarely used it.
Is your mail client configured to use those hosts (that would be very unusual), or just your local ISP connection?
In Cpanel they have something called Softaculous. Previously they used something called Fantastico. I guess they are a collection of auto installers. So you can find Joomla, Mailman, etc. all located there.
I see. Love people who care more about names than functionality, but I guess that's the marketing department. I'll see if your mail comes through in the next few hours.
Steve
Thank you to Steve Turnbull and Mark Shapiro for helping me brainstorm why my mailing list was not working.
It turns out it was not a Mailman problem after all. my provider sent me new server info that went straight into my spam box, and so when it was time to update my mail server (send and receive both new), I stopped getting mail and being able to send mail.
Now that I have updated the servers, all is well. Well, one thing is odd: no system messages came into mailman until I contacted support and got the instructions. In face, all became normal IN THE MAILMAN INTERFACE at least once I had contacted support. I don’t see how my being able to send and receive would affect system messages just coming into Mailman itself…Although the messages started again from the time I was told the new server info by support, so until then they were being lost.
I don’t know what to make of that, but am glad it is running again.
Thanks Mark and Steve!
paul
participants (3)
-
Mark Sapiro -
Paul Arenson/tokyoprogressive -
Stephen J. Turnbull