Hi all
Every now and then, "Mailman 3" is mentioned on this list. As I understand it, MM 3 is completely different from the current MM 2 we all are using, and as Mark Sapiro wrote earlier today, questions regarding MM3 belong somewhere else. And I think I'll be using MM 2 as long as MM 2 is offered by our provider (via the cPanel installation).
However: What is the state of Mailman 2 at the moment? I think it is still supported and developed. But will this change in the near or in the distant future?
No, I am not afraid of learning something new - I am just wondering :)
Thank you, Christian
Christian F. Buser, Hohle Gasse 6, CH-5507 Mellingen (Switzerland)
Hilfe für Strassenkinder in Ghana: http://www.chance-for-children.org
On 03/30/2017 08:44 AM, Christian F Buser via Mailman-Users wrote:
However: What is the state of Mailman 2 at the moment? I think it is still supported and developed. But will this change in the near or in the distant future?
Mailman 2 is definitely end of life. I am the only one actively supporting it at this point and while I continue to offer help and fix bugs, it's not what I want to be doing.
Mailman 3 is the future. 3.1 will be released probably after PyCon in May if not before, and while there will still be some things "missing" from the web admin UI (Postorius), and the migration tools for 2.1 lists are still buggy, we think 3.1 will be a viable replacement for Mailman 2.1. There are currently production lists running on Mailman 3 at <https://mail.python.org/mm3/mailman3/>, <https://lists.mailman3.org/mailman3/lists/>, <https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/> and elsewhere.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
On 03/30/2017 12:16 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
However: What is the state of Mailman 2 at the moment? I think it is still supported and developed. But will this change in the near or in the distant future?
Mailman 2 is definitely end of life. I am the only one actively supporting it at this point and while I continue to offer help and fix bugs, it's not what I want to be doing.
Mailman 3 is the future. 3.1 will be released probably after PyCon in May if not before, and while there will still be some things "missing" from the web admin UI (Postorius), and the migration tools for 2.1 lists are still buggy, we think 3.1 will be a viable replacement for Mailman 2.1.
Does 3 yet run on anything other than Linux? The last time I looked at it, it looked to be pretty much Linux-only. (My company's Solaris-based mail servers aren't going away anytime soon.)
-Dave-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 03/30/2017 09:55 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:
Does 3 yet run on anything other than Linux? The last time I looked at it, it looked to be pretty much Linux-only. (My company's Solaris-based mail servers aren't going away anytime soon.)
It should run on any *nix that supports Python 2, Python 3 and its dependencies. I know people have built it successfully on Mac OSX, at least for development/testing.
Are there specific issues with Solaris that you think will be problems?
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
On 03/30/2017 05:27 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
Does 3 yet run on anything other than Linux? The last time I looked at it, it looked to be pretty much Linux-only. (My company's Solaris-based mail servers aren't going away anytime soon.)
It should run on any *nix that supports Python 2, Python 3 and its dependencies. I know people have built it successfully on Mac OSX, at least for development/testing.
Are there specific issues with Solaris that you think will be problems?
Hi! I last looked at it about a year ago (which is a very long time in my world ;)) so the specifics are very fuzzy. I believe there was a dependency on a biggish package that was either Linux-only or x86-only. Would it have been Node.js?
Thinking about it some more, yes I believe it was Node.js. Apparently Node.js isn't quite portable enough to run on SPARC.
-Dave-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 03/30/2017 03:08 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
Thinking about it some more, yes I believe it was Node.js. Apparently Node.js isn't quite portable enough to run on SPARC.
I'm afraid Node.js is still a requirement.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
On 03/30/2017 07:11 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
Thinking about it some more, yes I believe it was Node.js. Apparently Node.js isn't quite portable enough to run on SPARC.
I'm afraid Node.js is still a requirement.
Ok. No Mailman 3 for us. :-( Thanks for your response.
-Dave-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 03/30/2017 08:08 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
I'm afraid Node.js is still a requirement.
Of the web interface of course. Technically those are optional components, but practically speaking if you want to control Mailman 3 via the web, that's the only option.
Interesting. I know there's a pretty clear division between components in 3; can the web interface run on a separate machine and point to a remote instance of Mailman?
-Dave-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On Mar 30, 2017, at 08:11 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
Interesting. I know there's a pretty clear division between components in 3; can the web interface run on a separate machine and point to a remote instance of Mailman?
Yep! It's somewhat important to keep in mind that the REST API of Core is a fully administrative API. It can be protected by some basic auth secrets, but nothing more than that, so just make sure that the Core REST API isn't published on some public IP address and you should be fine.
Cheers, -Barry
On 03/30/2017 08:35 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
Interesting. I know there's a pretty clear division between components in 3; can the web interface run on a separate machine and point to a remote instance of Mailman?
Yep! It's somewhat important to keep in mind that the REST API of Core is a fully administrative API. It can be protected by some basic auth secrets, but nothing more than that, so just make sure that the Core REST API isn't published on some public IP address and you should be fine.
Ok, very interesting. Thank you for the explanation. Running the management code on a different system is something I could probably make myself swallow. I'll have to decide at some point if the additional coolness of 3 is worth that hassle. From what I've seen so far, it may very well be. With the exception of the Node.js silliness, Mailman appears to be moving in a very good direction.
-Dave-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On 3/30/2017 9:55 AM, Dave McGuire wrote:
Does 3 yet run on anything other than Linux? The last time I looked at it, it looked to be pretty much Linux-only. (My company's Solaris-based mail servers aren't going away anytime soon.)
Unless v3 is different from v2 in this regard, mailman doesn't have to run in the same OS instance as the MTA. Put mailman3 on a linux (or bsd) box and let the existing MTAs do their thing. You will have to deal with routing the mailman aliases to the mailman system, but that shouldn't be difficult.
OTOH, node.js is available for solaris x86 (32 & 64 bit) on the nodejs.org site. If you're still running sparc servers.... aren't they getting a bit long in the tooth? (Says the person still running his backup DNS on a Pentium P90 :).)
Later,
z!
On 03/30/2017 07:13 PM, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
Does 3 yet run on anything other than Linux? The last time I looked at it, it looked to be pretty much Linux-only. (My company's Solaris-based mail servers aren't going away anytime soon.)
Unless v3 is different from v2 in this regard, mailman doesn't have to run in the same OS instance as the MTA. Put mailman3 on a linux (or bsd) box and let the existing MTAs do their thing. You will have to deal with routing the mailman aliases to the mailman system, but that shouldn't be difficult.
We could set that up here, but rather than set up another VM running a different OS just to support Mailman 3 isn't going to happen. We'll stick with 2.
OTOH, node.js is available for solaris x86 (32 & 64 bit) on the nodejs.org site. If you're still running sparc servers.... aren't they getting a bit long in the tooth?
Just because there were SPARC servers in 1995 doesn't mean ALL SPARC servers are from 1995, CZ...these aren't the ones we ran at Digex. ;)
Our T3s and T4s are reasonably new and screaming fast. They'll get replaced when they're truly obsolete, rather than "salesman obsolete". That likely means ARM. (does Node.js run on ARM?)
(Says the person still running his backup DNS on a Pentium P90 :).)
Hey, if it serves the requests..
-Dave-- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 09:16:41 -0700, Mark Sapiro said:
Mailman 2 is definitely end of life. I am the only one actively supporting it at this point and while I continue to offer help and fix bugs, it's not what I want to be doing.
Is there any planned date where security updates end?
Cheers,
Sean
On 04/01/2017 12:56 PM, Sean McBride wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 09:16:41 -0700, Mark Sapiro said:
Mailman 2 is definitely end of life. I am the only one actively supporting it at this point and while I continue to offer help and fix bugs, it's not what I want to be doing.
Is there any planned date where security updates end?
No. There is no planned date.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
On 03/30/17 12:16, Mark Sapiro wrote:
On 03/30/2017 08:44 AM, Christian F Buser via Mailman-Users wrote:
However: What is the state of Mailman 2 at the moment? I think it is still supported and developed. But will this change in the near or in the distant future?
Mailman 2 is definitely end of life. I am the only one actively supporting it at this point and while I continue to offer help and fix bugs, it's not what I want to be doing.
There's no Gentoo ebuild for mailman3 yet. Hopefully that will change...
-- Phil Stracchino Babylon Communications phils@caerllewys.net phil@co.ordinate.org Landline: 603.293.8485
participants (7)
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Barry Warsaw -
Carl Zwanzig -
Christian F Buser -
Dave McGuire -
Mark Sapiro -
Phil Stracchino -
Sean McBride