What to do when hosting providers frequently gets listed on an RBL
My hosting seems to be permanently banned by Yahoo and today Comcast started bouncing them.
I worked on the yahoo problem for a week with tech support and they never seemed to make any progress. Yesterday comcast.net http://comcast.net/ started bouncing with an RBL notice. I’m ready to move my mailing list but I’m not sure where to and I’m wondering how common this problem is and how to select a provider that is capable of keeping my mailing list of the RBL’s.
——— Relevant bounce message from comcast
Action: failed Status: 4.0.0 Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: host mx1.comcast.net http://mx1.comcast.net/[96.114.157.80] refused to talk to me: 554 resimta-po-36v.sys.comcast.net http://resimta-po-36v.sys.comcast.net/ resimta-po-36v.sys.comcast.net http://resimta-po-36v.sys.comcast.net/ 74.220.211.235 found on one or more DNSBLs, see http://postmaster.comcast.net/smtp-error-codes.php#BL001000 http://postmaster.comcast.net/smtp-error-codes.php#BL001000 Return-Path: <virtualdojo-bounces@createabeautifulworld.org mailto:virtualdojo-bounces@createabeautifulworld.org> Received: from gateway10.unifiedlayer.com http://gateway10.unifiedlayer.com/ (gateway10.unifiedlayer.com http://gateway10.unifiedlayer.com/ [69.89.24.105]) by gateway13.unifiedlayer.com http://gateway13.unifiedlayer.com/ (Postfix) with ESMTP id C59AC202059C3 for <txxx@comcast.net mailto:tejabell@comcast.net>; Fri, 4 Jun 2021 10:58:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cm4.websitewelcome.com http://cm4.websitewelcome.com/ (unknown [108.167.139.16]) by gateway10.unifiedlayer.com http://gateway10.unifiedlayer.com/ (Postfix) with ESMTP id D01C02009A768 for <txxx@comcast.net mailto:tejabell@comcast.net>; Fri, 4 Jun 2021 10:58:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from shared18.arvixe.com http://shared18.arvixe.com/ ([143.95.240.20]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id pCD4ln04ID5lxpCD4lHJKQ; Fri, 04 Jun 2021 10:58:10 -0500 X-Authority-Reason: ss=1 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=22440 helo=shared18.arvixe.com http://shared18.arvixe.com/) by shared18.arvixe.com http://shared18.arvixe.com/ with esmtp (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from <virtualdojo-bounces@createabeautifulworld.org mailto:virtualdojo-bounces@createabeautifulworld.org>) id 1lpCD4-000rIO-Aw; Fri, 04 Jun 2021 10:58:10 -0500
There has been some relevant discussion of this issue before.
I had similar problems and many others. At the moment things work, but Micorosft seems to be classifying 90% of the list mail as spam, and this will ultimately hurt its "reputation" and lead to trouble.
My general advice is to look at your bounce messages and see where they are coming from. Then look at the various block lists. https://mxtoolbox.com/blacklists.aspx is a good place to start, but it doesn't cover everything. May places rely on spamhaus: https://check.spamhaus.org. A few rely on https://www.barracudacentral.org/. And I've found that some apparently small blockers (Talos, one in Russia, att.com) will actually respond to email if you complain politely. (The one in Russia responds only in Russian, but Google Translate does the job.) Microsoft has a complaint form but it seems to go into a black hole.
Microsoft is here. Gives good general advice: https://sendersupport.olc.protection.outlook.com/pm/troubleshooting.aspx
There are many things you can do to reduce messages to non-functioning addresses. The bounce processor can be set to remove them. But you may also be getting other bounces from bots trying to sign up for your list.
If you use ipv6, then that raises many other issues, and your server staff might be able to help by giving you a proper ipv6 address ending in /64. (I can't tell you how crazy I think this business is.)
I don't want to go into detail here about ipv6 or bots. Bots have been discussed here before. You may not use ipv6, but I can provide more advice about that if it is the problem.
And, yes, it does help to set up spf and dkim, if you haven't. And gmail requires a special addition to spf, but it seems you don't have trouble with gmail (yet).
Jon
https://itstillworks.com/yahoo-rejecting-mail-server-12192772.html may help with Yahoo. I never had trouble with them, but they do mention failed addresses.
For Comcast, I got on the phone with them. I was told to ask a Comcast customer to complain. I did that, and it seemed to help. But other things may have accounted for the improvement.
On 06/04/21 13:20, Kenneth Kron wrote:
My hosting seems to be permanently banned by Yahoo and today Comcast started bouncing them.
I worked on the yahoo problem for a week with tech support and they never seemed to make any progress. Yesterday comcast.net http://comcast.net/ started bouncing with an RBL notice. I’m ready to move my mailing list but I’m not sure where to and I’m wondering how common this problem is and how to select a provider that is capable of keeping my mailing list of the RBL’s.
On 6/4/21 1:20 PM, Kenneth Kron wrote:
My hosting seems to be permanently banned by Yahoo and today Comcast started bouncing them.
There is much advice in the archives of this list including the reply from Jon in this thread, but all the suggestions regarding mail server configuration and black list removal are things for the admins of the mail server to do. In the case of a hosted list, the only thing a list owner can do is appeal to the hosting service to address these issues. Unfortunately, there are some hosting services that are unwilling or unable to do what's necessary to ensure that list mail can be delivered.
In these cases, the only recourse is to move your list. There is a list of providers at https://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services. We hope that these providers are all able to actually support the Mailman service they provide.
In the past, Brian Carpenter of EMWD would have responded by now with an offer to support your list and help move it, but tragically, Brian recently died from a COVID virus infection. His family is continuing EMWDs services. We hope they will be able to continue to provide the level of service that Brian provided and wish them the best in that endeavor. You might check them out.
Hello Mark Sapiro. On Sat, 5 Jun 2021 12:44:52 -0700, you wrote:
In the past, Brian Carpenter of EMWD would have responded by now with an offer to support your list and help move it, but tragically, Brian recently died from a COVID virus infection.
This is too bad news - was it mentioned in this list before?
I would like to express my condolences to his family and to all who knew him!
I had my 2nd vaccination shot on May 18, so I hope to be relatively safe - but you never know.
Best wishes to all Christian
Hilfe fuer Strassenkinder in Ghana: https://www.chance-for-children.org
On 6/5/2021 1:31 PM, Christian Buser via Mailman-Users wrote:
Hello Mark Sapiro. On Sat, 5 Jun 2021 12:44:52 -0700, you wrote:
In the past, Brian Carpenter of EMWD would have responded by now with an offer to support your list and help move it, but tragically, Brian recently died from a COVID virus infection.
This is too bad news - was it mentioned in this list before?
Was just wondering that, too.
I would like to express my condolences to his family and to all who knew him!
The same.
(If you -can- get the vacc, just do it. Now. In the USA, they're free to the recipient.)
z! not wanting to get political here
On 6/5/21 1:44 PM, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
On 6/5/2021 1:31 PM, Christian Buser via Mailman-Users wrote:
Hello Mark Sapiro. On Sat, 5 Jun 2021 12:44:52 -0700, you wrote:
In the past, Brian Carpenter of EMWD would have responded by now with an offer to support your list and help move it, but tragically, Brian recently died from a COVID virus infection.
This is too bad news - was it mentioned in this list before?
Was just wondering that, too.
Apparently not. There is a thread on the MM3 users list at https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/Z...
On 2021-06-05 3:31 PM, Christian Buser via Mailman-Users wrote:
Hello Mark Sapiro. On Sat, 5 Jun 2021 12:44:52 -0700, you wrote:
In the past, Brian Carpenter of EMWD would have responded by now with an offer to support your list and help move it, but tragically, Brian recently died from a COVID virus infection.
This is too bad news - was it mentioned in this list before?
I would like to express my condolences to his family and to all who knew him!
Same here, sorry to hear this.
Dima
On Sat, Jun 05, 2021 at 04:06:01PM -0500, dmitri maziuk wrote:
On 2021-06-05 3:31 PM, Christian Buser via Mailman-Users wrote:
Hello Mark Sapiro. On Sat, 5 Jun 2021 12:44:52 -0700, you wrote:
In the past, Brian Carpenter of EMWD would have responded by now with an offer to support your list and help move it, but tragically, Brian recently died from a COVID virus infection.
This is too bad news - was it mentioned in this list before?
I would like to express my condolences to his family and to all who knew him!
Same here, sorry to hear this.
I'm just a lurker here. After seeing Brian's emails since joining this list, I had bookmarked EMWD as the commercial ML host to recommend to people.
Huge respect for his commitment to Mailman hosting, and his parallel commitment to sharing his knowledge. I never knew him and never had occasion to be an EMWD customer, and I miss him.
Clearly worked his butt off in life. I'm sad that his time to rest came so prematurely, and wish his family fortitude. He left them an amazing set of pointers for continuing his technical legacy.
On 05/06/2021 04:20, Kenneth Kron wrote:
My hosting seems to be permanently banned by Yahoo and today Comcast started bouncing them.
I worked on the yahoo problem for a week with tech support and they never seemed to make any progress. Yesterday comcast.nethttp://comcast.net/ started bouncing with an RBL notice. I’m ready to move my mailing list but I’m not sure where to and I’m wondering how common this problem is and how to select a provider that is capable of keeping my mailing list of the RBL’s.
G'day,
I went through this issue and managed to get off the RBL's and then back on again.
Do you send out monthly reminders? If you do, do you remove those that bounce? I do. In some cases I have removed the monthly reminder.
I believe ISP's are getting stronger on bouncing messages and it maybe that you get caught up in too many bounces. I don't have proof of that.
I also think people sign up for lists, forget they have done so. Some are basically idiots and mark your list email as spam because they can't be bothered to unsubscribe and that ends up blocking an IP.
I now delete any bounced message, working on the premise if they want the emails they will resubscribe.
\ /) ~ doesn't move and it should use > (O) X< ~ Fish!! the hammer. If it moves and\___/' \) ~
shouldn't, use the tape. \\---------------------------------------------------
stinga wrote:
On 05/06/2021 04:20, Kenneth Kron wrote:
My hosting seems to be permanently banned by Yahoo and today Comcast started bouncing them.
I worked on the yahoo problem for a week with tech support and they never seemed to make any progress. Yesterday comcast.nethttp://comcast.net/ started bouncing with an RBL notice. I���m ready to move my mailing list but I���m not sure where to and I���m wondering how common this problem is and how to select a provider that is capable of keeping my mailing list of the RBL���s.
G'day,
I went through this issue and managed to get off the RBL's and then back on again.
I've seen similar. Worst are extortionists: Sorbs.
Do you send out monthly reminders? If you do, do you remove those that bounce? I do. In some cases I have removed the monthly reminder.
I append an automatic footer with list URL for unsub. as many list readers too clueless to use headers eg: List-unsubscribe: http://mailman.domain/mailman/options/test, mailto:test-request@mailman.domain?subject=unsubscribe List-help: mailto:test-request@mailman.domain?subject=help
I believe ISP's are getting stronger on bouncing messages and it maybe that you get caught up in too many bounces. I don't have proof of that.
I also think people sign up for lists, forget they have done so. Some are basically idiots and mark your list email as spam because they can't be bothered to unsubscribe and that ends up blocking an IP.
I've had some claim to be programmers, yet so dumb they didnt know how to mail Ascii to majordomo@ & so self important they refused to unsub themselves, who threatened then false registered the lists server as a spammer.
I migrated from majordomo to Mailman, to stop clueless idiots, lazy & malicious wasting admin time. I never tried the MajorCool web interface to majordomo. PS Sadly, FreeBSD.org are abandonning Mailman-2 for mlmmj !
I now delete any bounced message, working on the premise if they want the emails they will resubscribe.
That can be inconvenient:
- Mailman automaticly unsubscribes if too many bounces in a period, the parameters ara adjustable per list.
- I use procmail to filter bounce warnings.
- I'm on about ~100 lists, & recently had an outage, i appreciated not being quickly struck off busy lists.
Cheers,
Julian Stacey http://berklix.com/jhs/ http://stolenvotes.uk http://www.berklix.org/~jhs/mail/sorbs/ Unreliable spam black list extorter.
(subject changed to protect the original thread)
On 6/6/2021 6:21 AM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
PS Sadly, FreeBSD.org are abandonning Mailman-2 for mlmmj !
?????
Do you mean the freebsd.org-hosted lists or the freebsd port? I've been running mm2 on freebsd for quite a long time, never from the port, always from the mm2 source, so whether there's a "supported" port has never even crossed my mind. The only downside is that python2 is legacy/abandoned. (Given the overall weight of mm3, I'll stick with 2 until there's a really good reason, and there hasn't been one, yet.)
Later,
z!
participants (9)
-
Carl Zwanzig -
Christian Buser -
dmitri maziuk -
Jon Baron -
Julian H. Stacey -
Kenneth Kron -
Mark Sapiro -
Sam Kuper -
stinga