upgrading Panther Server basic install 2.1.2 to 2.1.5
We've been using Mailman with few problems for some time now on a G4/OS X 10.3.4, Mailman 2.1.2. The set up was done by a temp- a guy with UNIX experience that I lack, and he is off in Germany now. Trying to add some new lists, I'm getting a variety of errors, and decided that maybe it's time to get Mailman up to date. Maybe that would solve my errors. I've downloaded 2.1.5 and have read the FAQ, the Readme, and the Upgrading docs, but I'm still not sure about a few things:
- there is nothing in the upgrading doc that specifically talks about 2.1.2 -> 2.1.5. So, is the info for 2.1.4 -> 2.1.5 sufficient?
- On the Readme OS X- seems to speak to Jaquar and is out of date/ not applicable to 10.3.x?
- In the Readme, under "create your first list" , the default location is listed as /usr/local/mailman. On my server, it is usr/share/mailman. Should that be changed?
I don't have very many lists, and I'm need to delete all members and re-import list menmbers, so I'm happy to wipe it all clean and start from scratch if needed.
- the dir, usr/share/mailman does not contain everything that I see in the 2.1.5 folder I downloaded.
Thx,
Thomas Waters Director of Information and Communication Services University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy 412-383-7471 rxweb+@pitt.edu http://www.pharmacy.pitt.edu
At 12:00 PM -0400 2004-06-29, Thomas Waters wrote:
- there is nothing in the upgrading doc that specifically talks about 2.1.2 -> 2.1.5. So, is the info for 2.1.4 -> 2.1.5 sufficient?
It should be.
- On the Readme OS X- seems to speak to Jaquar and is out of date/not applicable to 10.3.x?
Apple has not contributed their changes to Mailman back to the project, nor have they contributed any documentation back to the project about what they changed. What is here is what people have created on their own.
So far as I know, all the people running Mailman on MacOS X are either doing it from stuff they've installed themselves on Jaguar, or they're using the Apple-bundled stuff on Panther Server. I don't know of anyone who has tried using the standard Mailman stuff on Panther (as opposed to Panther Server).
See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>.
Once you get your upgrade done, it would be nice if you could contribute your experiences and knowledge back to the project, to try to help fill this gap.
- In the Readme, under "create your first list" , the default location is listed as /usr/local/mailman. On my server, it is usr/share/mailman. Should that be changed?
It depends on what was done by the guy who originally installed it. However, it seems plausible that all references to /usr/local/mailman would need to be changed to /usr/share/mailman on your system.
I don't have very many lists, and I'm need to delete all members and re-import list menmbers, so I'm happy to wipe it all clean and start from scratch if needed.
The update over the stuff you have now should be relatively clean. Should be.
- the dir, usr/share/mailman does not contain everything that I see in the 2.1.5 folder I downloaded.
That's not a good sign. Is there a directory named "mailman" anywhere else on the system?
-- Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles@skynet.be>
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
I set up a text box to work on before touching the real machine. Clean
install of Panther Server, created a few lists.downloaded 2.1.5. And
I'm happy to write up what I did atfer I'm successfully done. But
then, I'm stuck. I guess I'm looking for step by step.
OK. v So I have the 2.1.5 folder on the desktop. Do I want to use the
terminal and mv to move the directory to the location of the existing
directly? Will this overwrite everything in /usr/share/mailman? Then
run bin/update? Or do I use the terminal to run bin/update from on the
desktop?
On Jun 29, 2004, at 12:14 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:
At 12:00 PM -0400 2004-06-29, Thomas Waters wrote:
- there is nothing in the upgrading doc that specifically talks
about 2.1.2 -> 2.1.5. So, is the info for 2.1.4 -> 2.1.5 sufficient?It should be.
- On the Readme OS X- seems to speak to Jaquar and is out of date/not applicable to 10.3.x?
Apple has not contributed their changes to Mailman back to the
project, nor have they contributed any documentation back to the
project about what they changed. What is here is what people have
created on their own.So far as I know, all the people running Mailman on MacOS X are
either doing it from stuff they've installed themselves on Jaguar, or
they're using the Apple-bundled stuff on Panther Server. I don't know
of anyone who has tried using the standard Mailman stuff on Panther
(as opposed to Panther Server).See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>.Once you get your upgrade done, it would be nice if you could
contribute your experiences and knowledge back to the project, to try
to help fill this gap.
- In the Readme, under "create your first list" , the default
location is listed as /usr/local/mailman. On my server, it is
usr/share/mailman. Should that be changed?It depends on what was done by the guy who originally installed it.
However, it seems plausible that all references to /usr/local/mailman
would need to be changed to /usr/share/mailman on your system.I don't have very many lists, and I'm need to delete all members and re-import list menmbers, so I'm happy to wipe it all clean and start from scratch if needed.
The update over the stuff you have now should be relatively clean.
Should be.
- the dir, usr/share/mailman does not contain everything that I see
in the 2.1.5 folder I downloaded.That's not a good sign. Is there a directory named "mailman"
anywhere else on the system?-- Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles@skynet.be>
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
-- Thomas Waters Director of Information and Communication Services University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy 412-383-7471 rxweb+@pitt.edu http://www.pharmacy.pitt.edu
At 4:14 PM -0400 2004-06-29, Thomas Waters wrote:
OK. v So I have the 2.1.5 folder on the desktop. Do I want to use the terminal and mv to move the directory to the location of the existing directly?
No, you don't want to do that.Will this overwrite everything in /usr/share/mailman? Thenrun bin/update? Or do I use the terminal to run bin/update from on the desktop?
Problem is, we don't know the specific options that Apple used when they built the previous version. You could try using "make update" from Terminal at the top level of the Mailman folder, but you'd need to make sure to specify the correct target Folder. That might also miss some other build options. Unfortunately, Apple didn't document anything, so we're pretty much completely blind.
To do this right, I fear that you're going to have to do a complete fresh install and then copy over selected data. You may (or may not) be able to copy over the configuration files, so you may be forced to regenerate that information.
This is a typical problem with any vendor pre-packaged version of a program. Do you stick with the package version, which the vendor is responsible for making sure works, or do you install the current version from source?
-- Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles@skynet.be>
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
Thanks Brad and Dan for your comments.
Mailman has worked really well for me, but as someone coming to Panther Server and Mailman from running a webstar server, it is a big jump- a BIG change. Better docs to help the newbie/clueless would go a long way. That said, the more I work in this "unix" environment, the easier it gets and the cooler it all seems. But I still don't *think* unix enough to make it easy yet. Anyway will give it a shot in the AM and see where I get to.
On Jun 29, 2004, at 7:18 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:
At 4:14 PM -0400 2004-06-29, Thomas Waters wrote:
OK. v So I have the 2.1.5 folder on the desktop. Do I want to use the terminal and mv to move the directory to the location of the existing directly?
No, you don't want to do that.
Will this overwrite everything in /usr/share/mailman? Thenrun bin/update? Or do I use the terminal to run bin/update from on the desktop?
Problem is, we don't know the specific options that Apple used when they built the previous version. You could try using "make update" from Terminal at the top level of the Mailman folder, but you'd need to make sure to specify the correct target Folder. That might also miss some other build options. Unfortunately, Apple didn't document anything, so we're pretty much completely blind.
To do this right, I fear that you're going to have to do a complete fresh install and then copy over selected data. You may (or may not) be able to copy over the configuration files, so you may be forced to regenerate that information.
This is a typical problem with any vendor pre-packaged version of a program. Do you stick with the package version, which the vendor is responsible for making sure works, or do you install the current version from source?
-- Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles@skynet.be>
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
At 8:33 PM -0400 2004-06-29, Thomas Waters wrote:
Mailman has worked really well for me, but as someone coming to Panther Server and Mailman from running a webstar server, it is a big jump- a BIG change. Better docs to help the newbie/clueless would go a long way.
We understand. We'd like to have better documentation, but this is an open source project, and our only support is from the community. If vendors like Apple would contribute their changes (and documentation) back to the project, then that would make things a lot easier.
As it is, we have to take what we can get from the sources we have available. If you can help us clarify the documentation so that it is more useful to you, that will help us help you -- and others.
That said, the more I work in this "unix" environment, the easier it gets and the cooler it all seems. But I still don't *think* unix enough to make it easy yet. Anyway will give it a shot in the AM and see where I get to.
Please let us know how it goes.-- Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles@skynet.be>
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
On 6/29/04 11:14 AM, Brad Knowles at brad.knowles@skynet.be wrote:
So far as I know, all the people running Mailman on MacOS X are either doing it from stuff they've installed themselves on Jaguar, or they're using the Apple-bundled stuff on Panther Server. I don't know of anyone who has tried using the standard Mailman stuff on Panther (as opposed to Panther Server).
Well, I have Mailman 2.1.4 running just fine on Panther (regular, not Server). I basically followed the instructions contained in <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2002-October/022944.html> (which deals with getting Mailman running under Jaguar) modified for the fact that Panther includes Postfix rather than Sendmail and I already had Postfix running. I don't recall exactly what I had to differently but I don't recall any major problems. FWIW, I have Mailman installed in /Applications/Mailman (that's the Applications folder when viewed from the Mac Desktop).
I wish I could be more helpful but it's very doable and didn't take a lot of work.
-- Larry Stone larry@stonejongleux.com http://www.stonejongleux.com/
At 9:54 PM -0500 2004-06-29, Larry Stone wrote:
Well, I have Mailman 2.1.4 running just fine on Panther (regular, not Server). I basically followed the instructions contained in <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2002-October/022944.html> (which deals with getting Mailman running under Jaguar) modified for the fact that Panther includes Postfix rather than Sendmail and I already had Postfix running.
If you can remember exactly what you did, we can update the FAQ to include your comments.
-- Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles@skynet.be>
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
On Jun 30, 2004, at 5:54 AM, Brad Knowles wrote:
At 9:54 PM -0500 2004-06-29, Larry Stone wrote:
Well, I have Mailman 2.1.4 running just fine on Panther (regular, not Server). I basically followed the instructions contained in
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2002-October/ 022944.html> (which deals with getting Mailman running under Jaguar) modified for
the fact that Panther includes Postfix rather than Sendmail and I
already had Postfix running.If you can remember exactly what you did, we can update the FAQ to
include your comments.
This is a completely different animal however, in that non-Server
Panther does not come with Mailman already installed (at least mine
didn't). This is just a plain fresh install rather than an update of an
Apple modified installation.
Dan
Dan Phillips Professor of Horn, University of Memphis site administrator: music.memphis.edu
At 8:15 AM -0500 2004-06-30, Dan Phillips wrote:
This is a completely different animal however, in that non-Server Panther does not come with Mailman already installed (at least mine didn't). This is just a plain fresh install rather than an update of an Apple modified installation.
I understand. This is still a configuration I'd like to see specifically addressed in the documentation/FAQ.
Handling the Panther Server issues is a separate matter, one that we may not be able to solve.
-- Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles@skynet.be>
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
participants (5)
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Brad Knowles -
Dan Phillips -
Larry Stone -
Thomas Waters -
Thomas Waters