Dear friends,
i am new on this list and come with a question to the overlay of admin configurations over the users configurations.
In some maillist i have the problems, that the user configuration a) Receive your own posts to the list? YES b) Avoid duplicate copies of messages? NO
is not working. On some maillists it is working. Never i administrate a mailman instance. I need some ideas to search in the documentation to this configuration overlay.
I am not shure, that this admin configuration overlay exist. But it seems like that.
All the admin persons don't answer to my question. Maybe they don't understand my question. But it is simple.
a) Receive your own posts to the list? YES With YES, if you send a mail to the list server, he distribute this mail also to you.
b) Avoid duplicate copies of messages? NO With NO, the distribution act without any check of your address in TO or CC.
Because it don't work in general, i think, there is a admin configuration point to setup a general method over the users method.
many thanks for your work, and many greetings, willi (currently) Panama City
On 06/20/2014 11:28 AM, willi uebelherr wrote:
In some maillist i have the problems, that the user configuration a) Receive your own posts to the list? YES b) Avoid duplicate copies of messages? NO
is not working. On some maillists it is working. Never i administrate a mailman instance. I need some ideas to search in the documentation to this configuration overlay.
Well, it's not a "configuration overlay", but that's beside the point. You are posting here from a gmail address. Gmail users NEVER receive their own posts from lists. This is a Gmail "feature". See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/2IA9> for more info.
I am not shure, that this admin configuration overlay exist. But it seems like that.
All the admin persons don't answer to my question. Maybe they don't understand my question. But it is simple.
a) Receive your own posts to the list? YES With YES, if you send a mail to the list server, he distribute this mail also to you.
Yes, but if you post from and receive your mail at Gmail, Gmail throws it away.
b) Avoid duplicate copies of messages? NO With NO, the distribution act without any check of your address in TO or CC.
Correct.
Because it don't work in general, i think, there is a admin configuration point to setup a general method over the users method.
There is no overriding admin configuration that would change these behaviors. If Gmail is not the reason, then it is something else in the delivery chain back to you. With the settings you describe, Mailman will send you copies of your own posts.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Dear Mark,
many thanks for you fast answer. But in this time, before i read your answer, i search in the mailman documentation and i found this information.
With your answer now i know, what is going on.
I think, Goggle use the mail-message-id. Is it possible in the mailman, to change the message-id of the mail?
Of course, independent from all, i have to disolve all my gmail accounts. But it needs a little bit of time. With the archives i can always see, what the list-server distribute. Because now, i know from you, that this information is valid as a base.
thank you very much and many greetings, willi Panama City
Am 06/21/2014 11:01 a.m., schrieb Mark Sapiro:
On 06/20/2014 11:28 AM, willi uebelherr wrote:
In some maillist i have the problems, that the user configuration a) Receive your own posts to the list? YES b) Avoid duplicate copies of messages? NO
is not working. On some maillists it is working. Never i administrate a mailman instance. I need some ideas to search in the documentation to this configuration overlay.
Well, it's not a "configuration overlay", but that's beside the point. You are posting here from a gmail address. Gmail users NEVER receive their own posts from lists. This is a Gmail "feature". See the FAQ at <http://wiki.list.org/x/2IA9> for more info.
I am not shure, that this admin configuration overlay exist. But it seems like that.
All the admin persons don't answer to my question. Maybe they don't understand my question. But it is simple.
a) Receive your own posts to the list? YES With YES, if you send a mail to the list server, he distribute this mail also to you.
Yes, but if you post from and receive your mail at Gmail, Gmail throws it away.
b) Avoid duplicate copies of messages? NO With NO, the distribution act without any check of your address in TO or CC.
Correct.
Because it don't work in general, i think, there is a admin configuration point to setup a general method over the users method.
There is no overriding admin configuration that would change these behaviors. If Gmail is not the reason, then it is something else in the delivery chain back to you. With the settings you describe, Mailman will send you copies of your own posts.
On 06/21/2014 09:54 AM, willi uebelherr wrote:
I think, Goggle use the mail-message-id. Is it possible in the mailman, to change the message-id of the mail?
A list member cannot control this.
The site admins could patch Mailman to do this, but it is not compliant with mail standards and could have negative consequences on message threading in MUAs and archives, so it is definitely not recommended.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
willi uebelherr writes:
I think, Goggle use the mail-message-id. Is it possible in the mailman, to change the message-id of the mail?
You don't want to do that. Modern mail clients determine relationships ("order of conversations") among messages which may have similar subjects (or may not) by using the Message-Id. If you change it in Mailman, first of all the two messages will probably not appear together in the thread because they appear to be independent subthreads. Second, anybody who receives a direct copy of the original (including Bcc) will be placed in a different thread when they reply from those who reply to the Mailman copy.
This will cause annoyance to your users with little benefit to yourself, even as admin.
On 6/20/14, 2:28 PM, willi uebelherr wrote:
Dear friends,
i am new on this list and come with a question to the overlay of admin configurations over the users configurations.
In some maillist i have the problems, that the user configuration a) Receive your own posts to the list? YES b) Avoid duplicate copies of messages? NO
is not working. On some maillists it is working. Never i administrate a mailman instance. I need some ideas to search in the documentation to this configuration overlay.
More details please on "not working". With the options set that way, if you are on individual messages, every message to the list will be sent to you, unless you have enabled to receive only selected "topics" (in which case every message that matches the topic filters will be sent to you).
There are cases where YOUR mail transport or user agent might eliminate/hide messages. GMail is well know to do this, it will automatically remove extra copies of messages that it sees as dupicate (by matching message ids). If there are lists where you actually get your own message back or get duplicate copies then that list is doing something non-standard to defeat the operation. The one standard thing that can sort of do this is digests, as everyone on digests gets the same digests, and they are unique messages so gmail won't see them as duplicates.
I am not shure, that this admin configuration overlay exist. But it seems like that.
All the admin persons don't answer to my question. Maybe they don't understand my question. But it is simple.
a) Receive your own posts to the list? YES With YES, if you send a mail to the list server, he distribute this mail also to you.
b) Avoid duplicate copies of messages? NO With NO, the distribution act without any check of your address in TO or CC.
Because it don't work in general, i think, there is a admin configuration point to setup a general method over the users method.
many thanks for your work, and many greetings, willi (currently) Panama City To my knowledge, the options for the admin allow them to set defaults for these settings, and for some settings disable them, but in this case they won't appear on the user interface, or to change them for the user. As far as I know, if the user has a option available, it will be functional (there are a few things like digest type that won't do anything if you are not getting a digest, but that is different than what you are saying).
-- Richard Damon
Am 06/21/2014 11:05 a.m., schrieb Richard Damon:
... There are cases where YOUR mail transport or user agent might eliminate/hide messages. GMail is well know to do this, it will automatically remove extra copies of messages that it sees as dupicate (by matching message ids). If there are lists where you actually get your own message back or get duplicate copies then that list is doing something non-standard to defeat the operation. The one standard thing that can sort of do this is digests, as everyone on digests gets the same digests, and they are unique messages so gmail won't see them as duplicates.
Dear Richard,
many thanks for your answer. What is "digests"? I am a german and i don't understand the translation for "digest".
May be, it is a process of manipulating the mail header? My question to Mark was, what can i do to change the message-id? Is that, what you propose?
many greetings, willi Panama City
On 06/21/2014 10:05 AM, willi uebelherr wrote:
many thanks for your answer. What is "digests"? I am a german and i don't understand the translation for "digest".
From the subscription form on the listinfo page:
Möchten Sie die Listenmails gebündelt in Form einer täglichen Zusammenfassung (digest) erhalten?
From the user options page:
Zusammenfassungs Modus
Wenn Sie den Zusammenfassungs Modus aktivieren, erhalten Sie die Nachrichten eines Tages gebündelt anstatt einzeln. Wenn der Zusammenfassungs Modus von an auf aus gewechselt wird, erhalten Sie eine letzet Zusammenfassung!
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Dear Mark,
many thanks. Now i understand. If i use the archive to import mails from Mbox-format, the header are cutted. I don't like this. Maybe, with the digest mode it is the same. And for my needs to be able to actually interaction it is not good for me.
I will try to ask the google-team how i can stop this stupid feature. And if i get a positive answer i will send it to this list.
many greetings, willi Panama City
Am 06/21/2014 12:14 p.m., schrieb Mark Sapiro:
On 06/21/2014 10:05 AM, willi uebelherr wrote:
many thanks for your answer. What is "digests"? I am a german and i don't understand the translation for "digest".
From the subscription form on the listinfo page:
Möchten Sie die Listenmails gebündelt in Form einer täglichen Zusammenfassung (digest) erhalten?
From the user options page:
Zusammenfassungs Modus
Wenn Sie den Zusammenfassungs Modus aktivieren, erhalten Sie die Nachrichten eines Tages gebündelt anstatt einzeln. Wenn der Zusammenfassungs Modus von an auf aus gewechselt wird, erhalten Sie eine letzet Zusammenfassung!
participants (4)
-
Mark Sapiro -
Richard Damon -
Stephen J. Turnbull -
willi uebelherr