![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4306c34390293d9ac56a449974747b59.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Hello: I have an instance of mailman 2 on a red hat server that has been running without problems for a long time. Now I need to set up a test environment. I have cloned that server and I have modified the mmcfg.py removing the name of the old lists and I have put the name of the new list, as well as in postfix. The problem that arises is that when creating a new list, the alias.db, alias and virtual-mailman.db files are autogenerated but NOT the virtual-mailman file. Any ideas?.
Thank you so much for your help.
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/0fbcef57d028af495d8c9a5992405f78.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 2:17 PM Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo <ivantejeiro@gmail.com> wrote:
Not to answer your question, but may I suggest you stop learning about Mailman2 and look at Mailman3 instead? https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 In an Internet failure case, the #1 suspect is a constant: DNS. "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/b273ab068bc220d17a3e4c710c401c4b.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On 5/3/2024 4:25 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
Not to answer your question, but may I suggest you stop learning about Mailman2 and look at Mailman3 instead?
Last I checked, MM3 was just not suitable for a small set of smaller lists and to be maintained by less experienced people.
Perhaps that's changed, has it?
z!
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/0fbcef57d028af495d8c9a5992405f78.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 7:54 PM Carl Zwanzig <cpz@tuunq.com> wrote:
In what aspects was it not suitable? I have never encountered a document stating that. Again on the "less experienced people", I don't know about that. There is great support on the MM3 Mailing List. MM3 also comes with more features - https://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/features.html
Perhaps that's changed, has it?
I am not able to answer that before I get the answer to my question above.
Did you also know that MM2 relies on Python2.7 (Recommended) which was already EoLed?
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 In an Internet failure case, the #1 suspect is a constant: DNS. "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/b273ab068bc220d17a3e4c710c401c4b.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On 5/4/2024 1:45 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
Of course not, that's my opinion- every time I look at what it takes to install MM3, it seems like a lot of work for the results. If I need to run a few lists of tens of people, I don't want to spend multi-hours doing the setup. Kind of like using a 10 tonne lorry to move a table and chairs; it just doesn't make sense.
Perhaps that's changed, has it? I am not able to answer that before I get the answer to my question above.
There you have it. MM2 has been quick and easy to install and configure and light on the resources, MM3 appears to need a lot more. (How long does it take to install and configure a complete and usable MM3 installation? What are the resources needed? At one time, I ran MM2 on a 90Mhz Pentium and it did the job; there's a 2006 list post about it.)
Did you also know that MM2 relies on Python2.7 (Recommended) which was already EoLed?
Um, I've known that for years, thing is MM2 -still-works-! This might be why there seem to be a fair number of MM2 installs out there in production.
My first MM2 install was probably 18-20 years ago.
z!
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/0fbcef57d028af495d8c9a5992405f78.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On Sat, May 4, 2024 at 6:55 PM Carl Zwanzig <cpz@tuunq.com> wrote:
A lot of time? I think that's relative to the experience one has on as a Sysadmin. Can you try it by following - https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html - and report the time it took you to have a functional list? You will most likely spend multiple hours on it when using the OS packaging system, which is;t recommended anyway. The virtualenv method is the recommended one.
Again, "how long" will depend on one's familiarity with the applications being glued together. Not standard timing. How long does it take for MM2?
I had my 1st MM2 install in 2005, IIRC.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 In an Internet failure case, the #1 suspect is a constant: DNS. "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/56f108518d7ee2544412cc80978e3182.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Mark Sapiro wrote:
Is the list's domain listed in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS in mm_cfg.py?
On 5/5/24 23:58, Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo wrote:
Yes Mark, and in add_virtualhost.
Does the domain in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS match the list's host_name as shown on the list admin General Options page?
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4306c34390293d9ac56a449974747b59.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Yes,I create a list with the newlist command specifying the same domain and the list is created correctly with that domain, but the virtual-mailman file is not created, only the virtual-mailman.db and the aliases and aliases.db
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/56f108518d7ee2544412cc80978e3182.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On 5/6/24 11:11, Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo wrote:
Yes,I create a list with the newlist command specifying the same domain and the list is created correctly with that domain, but the virtual-mailman file is not created, only the virtual-mailman.db and the aliases and aliases.db
What Mailman version is this? In the current version, the only way I see this happening is if the _isvirtual test at https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/view/head:/Mailman/... returns False. Then the test at https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/view/head:/Mailman/... doesn't update virtual-mailman, but since virtual-mailman exists, the test at https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/view/head:/Mailman/... passes and _update_maps updates virtual-mailman.db from the existing virtual-mailman.
I.e., the list's host_name
must not be in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/56f108518d7ee2544412cc80978e3182.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On 5/7/24 02:41, Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo wrote:
2.1.29-12 version.
Sorry mark, I don't understand what else I can review.
What do you have in both Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py for DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, DEFAULT_URL_HOST, POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS and all add_virtualhost() statements? Also, on the list's General Options page what is the setting for
Host name this list prefers for email. (Details for host_name)
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4306c34390293d9ac56a449974747b59.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
defaults.py
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'localhost.localdomain'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'localhost.localdomain'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = []
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
MTA = 'Manual'
mm_cfg.py
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'listas.colegioderegistradores.es'
add_virtualhost('listas.colegioderegistradores.es','listas.colegioderegistradores.es')
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = 'listas.colegioderegistradores.es'
MTA = 'Postfix'
List general option (List name hola) Hostname detail = listas.colegioderegistradores.es
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/56f108518d7ee2544412cc80978e3182.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On 5/8/24 00:51, Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo wrote:
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = 'listas.colegioderegistradores.es'
This is the issue. POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS is a list of strings, not a string. It needs to be
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['listas.colegioderegistradores.es']
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4306c34390293d9ac56a449974747b59.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Correct!!!!, perfect!!!, thank you so much Mark, you are a crack.
Do you recomended migrate 2.1 to 3?, I have some automatizes shell scripts for new list, del users etc, and I am scared for do it.
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/56f108518d7ee2544412cc80978e3182.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On 5/8/24 10:55, Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo wrote:
Correct!!!!, perfect!!!, thank you so much Mark, you are a crack.
Do you recomended migrate 2.1 to 3?, I have some automatizes shell scripts for new list, del users etc, and I am scared for do it.
There are a few Mailman 2.1 features not yet in Mailman 3, notably sibling lists. You can run Mailman 2.1 and Mailman 3 in parallel on the same server. I recommend installing Mailman 3 via https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html and testing your things. Mailman 3 is definitely the path going forward.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/0fbcef57d028af495d8c9a5992405f78.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 2:17 PM Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo <ivantejeiro@gmail.com> wrote:
Not to answer your question, but may I suggest you stop learning about Mailman2 and look at Mailman3 instead? https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 In an Internet failure case, the #1 suspect is a constant: DNS. "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/b273ab068bc220d17a3e4c710c401c4b.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On 5/3/2024 4:25 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
Not to answer your question, but may I suggest you stop learning about Mailman2 and look at Mailman3 instead?
Last I checked, MM3 was just not suitable for a small set of smaller lists and to be maintained by less experienced people.
Perhaps that's changed, has it?
z!
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/0fbcef57d028af495d8c9a5992405f78.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 7:54 PM Carl Zwanzig <cpz@tuunq.com> wrote:
In what aspects was it not suitable? I have never encountered a document stating that. Again on the "less experienced people", I don't know about that. There is great support on the MM3 Mailing List. MM3 also comes with more features - https://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/features.html
Perhaps that's changed, has it?
I am not able to answer that before I get the answer to my question above.
Did you also know that MM2 relies on Python2.7 (Recommended) which was already EoLed?
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 In an Internet failure case, the #1 suspect is a constant: DNS. "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/b273ab068bc220d17a3e4c710c401c4b.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On 5/4/2024 1:45 AM, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
Of course not, that's my opinion- every time I look at what it takes to install MM3, it seems like a lot of work for the results. If I need to run a few lists of tens of people, I don't want to spend multi-hours doing the setup. Kind of like using a 10 tonne lorry to move a table and chairs; it just doesn't make sense.
Perhaps that's changed, has it? I am not able to answer that before I get the answer to my question above.
There you have it. MM2 has been quick and easy to install and configure and light on the resources, MM3 appears to need a lot more. (How long does it take to install and configure a complete and usable MM3 installation? What are the resources needed? At one time, I ran MM2 on a 90Mhz Pentium and it did the job; there's a 2006 list post about it.)
Did you also know that MM2 relies on Python2.7 (Recommended) which was already EoLed?
Um, I've known that for years, thing is MM2 -still-works-! This might be why there seem to be a fair number of MM2 installs out there in production.
My first MM2 install was probably 18-20 years ago.
z!
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/0fbcef57d028af495d8c9a5992405f78.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On Sat, May 4, 2024 at 6:55 PM Carl Zwanzig <cpz@tuunq.com> wrote:
A lot of time? I think that's relative to the experience one has on as a Sysadmin. Can you try it by following - https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html - and report the time it took you to have a functional list? You will most likely spend multiple hours on it when using the OS packaging system, which is;t recommended anyway. The virtualenv method is the recommended one.
Again, "how long" will depend on one's familiarity with the applications being glued together. Not standard timing. How long does it take for MM2?
I had my 1st MM2 install in 2005, IIRC.
-- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 In an Internet failure case, the #1 suspect is a constant: DNS. "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/56f108518d7ee2544412cc80978e3182.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Mark Sapiro wrote:
Is the list's domain listed in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS in mm_cfg.py?
On 5/5/24 23:58, Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo wrote:
Yes Mark, and in add_virtualhost.
Does the domain in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS match the list's host_name as shown on the list admin General Options page?
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4306c34390293d9ac56a449974747b59.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Yes,I create a list with the newlist command specifying the same domain and the list is created correctly with that domain, but the virtual-mailman file is not created, only the virtual-mailman.db and the aliases and aliases.db
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/56f108518d7ee2544412cc80978e3182.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On 5/6/24 11:11, Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo wrote:
Yes,I create a list with the newlist command specifying the same domain and the list is created correctly with that domain, but the virtual-mailman file is not created, only the virtual-mailman.db and the aliases and aliases.db
What Mailman version is this? In the current version, the only way I see this happening is if the _isvirtual test at https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/view/head:/Mailman/... returns False. Then the test at https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/view/head:/Mailman/... doesn't update virtual-mailman, but since virtual-mailman exists, the test at https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/view/head:/Mailman/... passes and _update_maps updates virtual-mailman.db from the existing virtual-mailman.
I.e., the list's host_name
must not be in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/56f108518d7ee2544412cc80978e3182.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On 5/7/24 02:41, Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo wrote:
2.1.29-12 version.
Sorry mark, I don't understand what else I can review.
What do you have in both Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py for DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, DEFAULT_URL_HOST, POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS and all add_virtualhost() statements? Also, on the list's General Options page what is the setting for
Host name this list prefers for email. (Details for host_name)
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4306c34390293d9ac56a449974747b59.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
defaults.py
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'localhost.localdomain'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'localhost.localdomain'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = []
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
MTA = 'Manual'
mm_cfg.py
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'listas.colegioderegistradores.es'
add_virtualhost('listas.colegioderegistradores.es','listas.colegioderegistradores.es')
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = 'listas.colegioderegistradores.es'
MTA = 'Postfix'
List general option (List name hola) Hostname detail = listas.colegioderegistradores.es
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/56f108518d7ee2544412cc80978e3182.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On 5/8/24 00:51, Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo wrote:
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = 'listas.colegioderegistradores.es'
This is the issue. POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS is a list of strings, not a string. It needs to be
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['listas.colegioderegistradores.es']
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4306c34390293d9ac56a449974747b59.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
Correct!!!!, perfect!!!, thank you so much Mark, you are a crack.
Do you recomended migrate 2.1 to 3?, I have some automatizes shell scripts for new list, del users etc, and I am scared for do it.
![](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/56f108518d7ee2544412cc80978e3182.jpg?s=120&d=mm&r=g)
On 5/8/24 10:55, Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo wrote:
Correct!!!!, perfect!!!, thank you so much Mark, you are a crack.
Do you recomended migrate 2.1 to 3?, I have some automatizes shell scripts for new list, del users etc, and I am scared for do it.
There are a few Mailman 2.1 features not yet in Mailman 3, notably sibling lists. You can run Mailman 2.1 and Mailman 3 in parallel on the same server. I recommend installing Mailman 3 via https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/install/virtualenv.html and testing your things. Mailman 3 is definitely the path going forward.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
participants (4)
-
Carl Zwanzig
-
Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo
-
Mark Sapiro
-
Odhiambo Washington