On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 10:41 PM, Matthew Brett <matthew.brett@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 10:21 PM, Ondřej Čertík <ondrej.certik@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Dag Sverre Seljebotn <d.s.seljebotn@astro.uio.no> wrote:
On 02/07/2013 12:16 AM, Matthew Brett wrote: [...]
Can you clarify the people you think will get stuck? I think I'm right in saying that anyone with a C extension should be able to build them against numpy, by installing the free (as-in-beer) MS tools? So do you just mean people needing a Fortran compiler? That's a small constituency, I think.
Off the top of my head there's SciPy and pymc...
Anyway, I'm butting in because I wish this discussion could separate between the user perspective and the developer perspective.
FWIW,
1) From a user's perspective, I don't understand this either. If you are already using a closed source, not-free-as-in-beer operating system, why would you not use (or buy!) a closed source, not-free-as-in-beer Fortran compiler?
Indeed. Though I really have no clue on the Windows use cases. Maybe most Windows users don't want to compile anything, just use numpy and scipy from Python?
Well - yes - as a packager I really want to be able to provide a binary so my binary consumers don't have to have a C compiler installed. I imagine it's the same for all of us packagers out there.
2) BUT, the argument I've seen that I can at least understand is that the release manager should be able to do a release using only open source tools (even using Wine instead of Windows) and not rely on a limited number of licenses. And that the release manager must be able to perform all the official builds directly.
As the release manager, I really only have two requirements:
* I want to ssh in there from my Ubuntu * I want to automate the whole process
For Mac, linux and Wine I can do that. So I have just spend few hours browsing the net and it looks like that the combination of Windows PowerShell 2.0:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_PowerShell
and some SSH server, there are quite a few, one commercial but free for one user one connection (perfect for me!):
http://www.powershellinside.com/powershell/ssh/
So if I understand the pages correctly, I can login there from linux, and then I use the PowerShell commands to script anything. It looks like I can even use my Fabric fabfiles with powershell:
https://gist.github.com/diyan/2850866
I can also use git with PowerShell:
http://windows.github.com/ http://haacked.com/archive/2011/12/13/better-git-with-powershell.aspx
So the final problem is how to execute MSVC and Fortran from Power Shell on Windows. These links might help for MSVC:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4398136/use-powershell-for-visual-studio-... http://geekswithblogs.net/dwdii/archive/2011/05/20/automating-a-visual-studi...
Finally, for Intel Fortran + powershell:
http://software.intel.com/en-us/forums/topic/284425
So I think it is all possible. If somebody can provide a machine with Windows, MSVC, PowerShell2.0, SSH server and some Fortran compiler, it should be possible for me to automate everything from Ubuntu using my Fabric files (https://github.com/certik/numpy-vendor).
Many many thanks for trying to solve this. I had really started to give up hope.
I think you will need a developer's license for MKL for Numpy. Ralf - any ETA for those?
I think I'm right in thinking you'll need a Fortran compiler for Scipy but not Numpy? Can we defer the Scipy build until after the Numpy build?
I will try to get you set up with ssh on my Windows 7 machine in case you can use it. It has the MS tools.
That would be amazing! If you can set me up with the Power Shell and some ssh server, I'll start playing with this right away. Ondrej