Eric brought up the point of one-offset arrays which can be relatively easily created with UserArrays. This led me to some thinking about why UserArrays are not more often used. I think one of the biggest reasons is that most of the functions can take UserArrays but returned the basic array type upon completion. So, you end up having to continually construct your UserArrays. Are there other reasons people have thought of? So, here's a suggestion: Why don't we modify PyArray_Return to return an object of the same class as one of the arguments which was passed if the class defines an __array__ method. Which argument to pick and how this would be implemented without changing old code is an interesting question. Assuming it were possible to cause PyArray_Return to do such a thing, would this be a bad idea? Sincrely, Tried-to-use-Matrix-objects-but-always-resort-to-dot(x,x) Travis Oliphant