On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 4:21 PM, Charles G. Waldman <charles@crunch.io> wrote:

Joseph Martinot-Lagarde writes:

> Compare what's comparable:

That's fair.

> In addition, you have to use AltGr on some keyboards to get the brackets

Wow, it must be rather painful to do any real programming on such a keyboard!

- C

On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Joseph Martinot-Lagarde
<joseph.martinot-lagarde@m4x.org> wrote:
> Le 18/07/2014 20:42, Charles G. Waldman a écrit :
>> Well, if the goal is "shorthand", typing numpy.array(numpy.mat())
>> won't please many users.
>>
>> But the more I think about it, the less I think Numpy should support
>> this (non-Pythonic) input mode. Too much molly-coddling of new users!
>> When doing interactive work I usually just type:
>>
>>>>> np.array([[1,2,3],
>> ... [4,5,6],
>> ... [7,8,9]])
>>
>> which is (IMO) easier to read: e.g. it's not totally obvious that
>> "1,0,0;0,1,0;0,0,1" represents a 3x3 identity matrix, but
>>
>> [[1,0,0],
>> [0,1,0],
>> [0,0,1]]
>>
>> is pretty obvious.
>>
> Compare what's comparable:
>
> [[1,0,0],
> [0,1,0],
> [0,0,1]]
>
> vs
>
> "1 0 0;"
> "0 1 0;"
> "0 0 1"
>
> or
>
> """
> 1 0 0;
> 0 1 0;
> 0 0 1
> """
>
> [[1,0,0], [0,1,0], [0,0,1]]
> vs
> "1 0 0; 0 1 0; 0 0 1"
>
>> The difference in (non-whitespace) chars is 19 vs 25, so the
>> "shorthand" doesn't seem to save that much.
>
> Well, it's easier to type "" (twice the same character) than [], and you
> have no risk in swapping en opening and a closing bracket. In addition,
> you have to use AltGr on some keyboards to get the brackets. It doesn't
> boils down to a number of characters.
>
>>
>> Just my €0.02,

It's the year of the notebook.

notebooks are reusable.

notebooks correctly align the brackets in the second and third line

and it looks pretty, just like a matrix

(But, I don't have to teach newbies, and often I even correct whitespace on the commandline, because it looks ugly and I will eventually copy it to a script file.)

Josef

no broken windows!

well, except for the ones I don't feel like fixing right now.

>>
>> - C
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Alan G Isaac <alan.isaac@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 7/18/2014 12:45 PM, Mark Miller wrote:
>>>> If the true goal is to just allow quick entry of a 2d array, why not just advocate using
>>>> a = numpy.array(numpy.mat("1 2 3; 4 5 6; 7 8 9"))
>>>
>>>
>>> It's even simpler:
>>> a = np.mat(' 1 2 3;4 5 6;7 8 9').A
>>>
>>> I'm not putting a dog in this race. Still I would say that
>>> the reason why such proposals miss the point is that
>>> there are introductory settings where one would like
>>> to explain as few complications as possible. In
>>> particular, one might prefer *not* to discuss the
>>> existence of a matrix type. As an additional downside,
>>> this is only good for 2d, and there have been proposals
>>> for the new array builder to handle other dimensions.
>>>
>>> fwiw,
>>> Alan Isaac
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NumPy-Discussion mailing list
>>> NumPy-Discussion@scipy.org
>>> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion
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