I've actually engaged with him on Twitter too but just to repeat one part here : scarce academic resources to maintain code is not an argument. Out of all places, it is academia that should have come up with or should have contributed greatly to open-source instead of paper-writing frenzy among each other. As many people already have written many blog posts/tweets etc. academia does not value software as scientific products but demand software continuously. As an ex-academician I can safely ignore that argument.Scientific code is expected to be maintained properly. I understand the sentiment but blocking progress because of legacy code is a burden on the posterity and a luxury for the past. On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Peter Cock <p.j.a.cock@googlemail.com> wrote:
Since Konrad Hinsen no longer follows the NumPy discussion list for lack of time, he has not posted here - but he has commented about this on Twitter and written up a good blog post:
http://blog.khinsen.net/posts/2017/11/16/a-plea-for- stability-in-the-scipy-ecosystem/
In a field where scientific code is expected to last and be developed on a timescale of decades, the change of pace with Python 2 and 3 is harder to handle.
Regards,
Peter
On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 2:19 AM, Nathaniel Smith <njs@pobox.com> wrote:
Apparently this is actually uncontroversial, the discussion's died down (see also the comments on Chuck's PR [1]), and anyone who wanted to object has had more than a week to do so, so... I guess we can say this is what's happening and start publicizing it to our users!
A direct link to the rendered NEP in the repo is: https://github.com/numpy/numpy/blob/master/doc/neps/ dropping-python2.7-proposal.rst
(I guess that at some point it will also show up on docs.scipy.org.)
-n
[1] https://github.com/numpy/numpy/pull/10006
On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 5:52 PM, Nathaniel Smith <njs@pobox.com> wrote:
Fortunately we can wait until we're a bit closer before we have to make any final decision on the version numbering :-)
Right now though it would be good to start communicating to users/downstreams about whatever our plans our though, so they can make plans. Here's a first attempt at some text we can put in the documentation and point people to -- any thoughts, on either the plan or the wording?
---- DRAFT TEXT - NOT FINAL - DO NOT POST THIS TO HACKERNEWS OK? OK ----
The Python core team plans to stop supporting Python 2 in 2020. The NumPy project has supported both Python 2 and Python 3 in parallel since 2010, and has found that supporting Python 2 is an increasing burden on our limited resources; thus, we plan to eventually drop Python 2 support as well. Now that we're entering the final years of community-supported Python 2, the NumPy project wants to clarify our plans, with the goal of to helping our downstream ecosystem make plans and accomplish the transition with as little disruption as possible.
Our current plan is as follows:
Until **December 31, 2018**, all NumPy releases will fully support both Python 2 and Python 3.
Starting on **January 1, 2019**, any new feature releases will support only Python 3.
The last Python-2-supporting release will be designated as a long-term support (LTS) release, meaning that we will continue to merge bug-fixes and make bug-fix releases for a longer period than usual. Specifically, it will be supported by the community until **December 31, 2019**.
On **January 1, 2020** we will raise a toast to Python 2, and community support for the last Python-2-supporting release will come to an end. However, it will continue to be available on PyPI indefinitely, and if any commercial vendors wish to extend the LTS support past this point then we are open to letting them use the LTS branch in the official NumPy repository to coordinate that.
If you are a NumPy user who requires ongoing Python 2 support in 2020 or later, then please contact your vendor. If you are a vendor who wishes to continue to support NumPy on Python 2 in 2020+, please get in touch; ideally we'd like you to get involved in maintaining the LTS before it actually hits end-of-life, so we can make a clean handoff.
To minimize disruption, running 'pip install numpy' on Python 2 will continue to give the last working release in perpetuity; but after January 1, 2019 it may not contain the latest features, and after January 1, 2020 it may not contain the latest bug fixes.
For more information on the scientific Python ecosystem's transition to Python-3-only, see: http://www.python3statement.org/
For more information on porting your code to run on Python 3, see: https://docs.python.org/3/howto/pyporting.html
----
Thoughts?
-n
On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Marten van Kerkwijk <m.h.vankerkwijk@gmail.com> wrote:
In astropy we had a similar discussion about version numbers, and decided to make 2.0 the LTS that still supports python 2.7 and 3.0 the first that does not. If we're discussing jumping a major number, we could do the same for numpy. (Admittedly, it made a bit more sense with the numbering scheme astropy had adopted anyway.) -- Marten _______________________________________________ NumPy-Discussion mailing list NumPy-Discussion@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion
-- Nathaniel J. Smith -- https://vorpus.org
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