Hi, Can I check what is stopping us building official numpy binary wheels for Windows using the Intel Math Kernel Library? * We'd need developer licenses, but those sound like they would be easy to come by * We'd have to add something to the license for the wheel on the lines of the Canopy license [1], derived from the MKL license [2] - is that a problem? Are there other problems for numpy? * I believe we would also need the Intel Fortran compiler when building 64-bit scipy with MSVC. Is that correct? If we have a license, is that a problem? If we did static linking to MKL for numpy and scipy, is there anything stopping us building wheels that would work for XP and above, for 32 and 64 bit? Maybe this is not the ideal solution, but perhaps it's the right thing to do for now? Cheers, Matthew [1] https://www.enthought.com/products/canopy/canopy-license/ [2] http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-software-development-products...
Hi, On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Matthew Brett <matthew.brett@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Can I check what is stopping us building official numpy binary wheels for Windows using the Intel Math Kernel Library?
* We'd need developer licenses, but those sound like they would be easy to come by * We'd have to add something to the license for the wheel on the lines of the Canopy license [1], derived from the MKL license [2] - is that a problem?
Are there other problems for numpy?
Talking with Fernando, we identified these as being the key problem clauses in the MKL license [1]: <start quote> D. DISTRIBUTION: Distribution of the Redistributables is also subject to the following limitations: [snipped clauses] (iv) shall use a license agreement that prohibits disassembly and reverse engineering of the Redistributables, (v) shall indemnify, hold harmless, and defend Intel and its suppliers from and against any claims or lawsuits, including attorney's fees, that arise or result from your distribution of any product. </end quote> The first is a problem that might conceivably be adequately solved by adding a paragraph to the Pypi page for numpy ("If you download and install the windows binaries, you also agree... ") and copying a new clause into the license in the installed tree. Maybe. The second looks like it would be very hard to deal with for open source project like us.... Cheers (sadly), Matthew [1] http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-software-development-products...
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 12:29 AM, Matthew Brett <matthew.brett@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Matthew Brett <matthew.brett@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Can I check what is stopping us building official numpy binary wheels for Windows using the Intel Math Kernel Library?
* We'd need developer licenses, but those sound like they would be easy to come by * We'd have to add something to the license for the wheel on the lines of the Canopy license [1], derived from the MKL license [2] - is that a problem?
Are there other problems for numpy?
Talking with Fernando, we identified these as being the key problem clauses in the MKL license [1]:
<start quote> D. DISTRIBUTION: Distribution of the Redistributables is also subject to the following limitations: [snipped clauses] (iv) shall use a license agreement that prohibits disassembly and reverse engineering of the Redistributables, (v) shall indemnify, hold harmless, and defend Intel and its suppliers from and against any claims or lawsuits, including attorney's fees, that arise or result from your distribution of any product. </end quote>
The first is a problem that might conceivably be adequately solved by adding a paragraph to the Pypi page for numpy ("If you download and install the windows binaries, you also agree... ") and copying a new clause into the license in the installed tree. Maybe. The second looks like it would be very hard to deal with for open source project like us....
It would be confusing to distribute these non-BSD wheels on the same PyPI page that declares most prominently that numpy is BSD-licensed. Adding some text elsewhere on the PyPI page is not going to help very much: people look at the "License: BSD" first and foremost. Nothing stops anyone else from building and distributing MKL-built binaries, a la C. Gohlke, but I don't think it is wise to do so on the PyPI page. -- Robert Kern
Hi, On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 3:18 AM, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 12:29 AM, Matthew Brett <matthew.brett@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Matthew Brett <matthew.brett@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Can I check what is stopping us building official numpy binary wheels for Windows using the Intel Math Kernel Library?
* We'd need developer licenses, but those sound like they would be easy to come by * We'd have to add something to the license for the wheel on the lines of the Canopy license [1], derived from the MKL license [2] - is that a problem?
Are there other problems for numpy?
Talking with Fernando, we identified these as being the key problem clauses in the MKL license [1]:
<start quote> D. DISTRIBUTION: Distribution of the Redistributables is also subject to the following limitations: [snipped clauses] (iv) shall use a license agreement that prohibits disassembly and reverse engineering of the Redistributables, (v) shall indemnify, hold harmless, and defend Intel and its suppliers from and against any claims or lawsuits, including attorney's fees, that arise or result from your distribution of any product. </end quote>
The first is a problem that might conceivably be adequately solved by adding a paragraph to the Pypi page for numpy ("If you download and install the windows binaries, you also agree... ") and copying a new clause into the license in the installed tree. Maybe. The second looks like it would be very hard to deal with for open source project like us....
It would be confusing to distribute these non-BSD wheels on the same PyPI page that declares most prominently that numpy is BSD-licensed. Adding some text elsewhere on the PyPI page is not going to help very much: people look at the "License: BSD" first and foremost. Nothing stops anyone else from building and distributing MKL-built binaries, a la C. Gohlke, but I don't think it is wise to do so on the PyPI page.
Can you see any circumstances in which we could use the MKL binaries from pypi? Cheers, Matthew
Hi, On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Matthew Brett <matthew.brett@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 3:18 AM, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 12:29 AM, Matthew Brett <matthew.brett@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Matthew Brett <matthew.brett@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Can I check what is stopping us building official numpy binary wheels for Windows using the Intel Math Kernel Library?
* We'd need developer licenses, but those sound like they would be easy to come by * We'd have to add something to the license for the wheel on the lines of the Canopy license [1], derived from the MKL license [2] - is that a problem?
Are there other problems for numpy?
Talking with Fernando, we identified these as being the key problem clauses in the MKL license [1]:
<start quote> D. DISTRIBUTION: Distribution of the Redistributables is also subject to the following limitations: [snipped clauses] (iv) shall use a license agreement that prohibits disassembly and reverse engineering of the Redistributables, (v) shall indemnify, hold harmless, and defend Intel and its suppliers from and against any claims or lawsuits, including attorney's fees, that arise or result from your distribution of any product. </end quote>
The first is a problem that might conceivably be adequately solved by adding a paragraph to the Pypi page for numpy ("If you download and install the windows binaries, you also agree... ") and copying a new clause into the license in the installed tree. Maybe. The second looks like it would be very hard to deal with for open source project like us....
It would be confusing to distribute these non-BSD wheels on the same PyPI page that declares most prominently that numpy is BSD-licensed. Adding some text elsewhere on the PyPI page is not going to help very much: people look at the "License: BSD" first and foremost. Nothing stops anyone else from building and distributing MKL-built binaries, a la C. Gohlke, but I don't think it is wise to do so on the PyPI page.
Can you see any circumstances in which we could use the MKL binaries from pypi?
Christoph - have you considered building binary wheels for the projects you support? If not, is there any help I / we can give? Cheers, Matthew
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 7:10 PM, Matthew Brett <matthew.brett@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 3:18 AM, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> wrote:
It would be confusing to distribute these non-BSD wheels on the same PyPI page that declares most prominently that numpy is BSD-licensed. Adding some text elsewhere on the PyPI page is not going to help very much: people look at the "License: BSD" first and foremost. Nothing stops anyone else from building and distributing MKL-built binaries, a la C. Gohlke, but I don't think it is wise to do so on the PyPI page.
Can you see any circumstances in which we could use the MKL binaries from pypi?
No. Most of the point of adding binary wheels to PyPI would be to make `pip install numpy` work. That gives users *no* chance to see any documentation about the proprietary license of those binaries. -- Robert Kern
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 2:04 PM, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 7:10 PM, Matthew Brett <matthew.brett@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 3:18 AM, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> wrote:
It would be confusing to distribute these non-BSD wheels on the same PyPI page that declares most prominently that numpy is BSD-licensed. Adding some text elsewhere on the PyPI page is not going to help very much: people look at the "License: BSD" first and foremost. Nothing stops anyone else from building and distributing MKL-built binaries, a la C. Gohlke, but I don't think it is wise to do so on the PyPI page.
Can you see any circumstances in which we could use the MKL binaries from pypi?
No. Most of the point of adding binary wheels to PyPI would be to make `pip install numpy` work. That gives users *no* chance to see any documentation about the proprietary license of those binaries.
OK - fair enough. Does anyone disagree? If not, I suggest we remove MKL from the options we consider in the future. Cheers, Matthew
participants (2)
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Matthew Brett -
Robert Kern