On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 00:38, Scott Sinclair wrote:

...

On 19 July 2010 08:21, Richard D. Moores wrote: If not now, when?

http://mail.scipy.org/pipermail/numpy-discussion/2010-July/051436.html

I'm afraid I need some help with that page. I'm interested in --------------------------------------------------- For those who are interested in already starting to port their stuff to Python 3, you can use Numpy's SVN trunk version. Grab it: svn clone http://svn.scipy.org/svn/numpy/trunk/ numpy cd numpy python3 setup.py build -------------------------------------------------- I downloaded the TortoiseSVN installer (TortoiseSVN-1.6.10.19898-x64-svn-1.6.12.msi), ran it, and created the C:\SVNRepository folder (64-bit Vista). I right-clicked on the folder icon saw the menu, but am uncertain as to what to do next. Thanks, Dick Moores

anyway, svn and tortoise are very useful. do some trial an error. try stuff, its easier than one usually imagine. (tip: checkout the svn address, whatever that should mean to you at the moment) cheers, rf 2010/7/19 David Cournapeau :

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Richard D. Moores wrote:

...

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 00:38, Scott Sinclair wrote:

...

...

On 19 July 2010 08:21, Richard D. Moores wrote: If not now, when?

http://mail.scipy.org/pipermail/numpy-discussion/2010-July/051436.html

I'm afraid I need some help with that page. I'm interested in

if you are not comfortable with svn, I would advise you to just wait for binaries. Building numpy on windows is not so easy,

David _______________________________________________ NumPy-Discussion mailing list NumPy-Discussion@scipy.org http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion

-- GNU/Linux User #479299 skype: fabbri.renato

dick, The thing is: 1) get the path to where your python3 is installed (something like c:\Python3) i don't remember that anymore. 2) run that setup with it, like c:\python3\python3 setup.py build 3) read CAREFULLY the output at your console. Specially the last lines. Start looking for an error, try to find where all errors start., that is, where the errors sequence is initiated. 4) When u find out what initiated the error sequence, solve it! 5) when "c:\....\python3 setup.py build" runs smoothly, do "c:\...\python3 setup.py install" if i may, consider installing a linux distro, maybe ubuntu (ubuntu 10.04 is running very well). life gets better. best of luck, rf 2010/7/19 Richard D. Moores :

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 03:47, Renato Fabbri wrote:

...

anyway, svn and tortoise are very useful.

do some trial an error. try stuff, its easier than one usually imagine.

(tip: checkout the svn address, whatever that should mean to you at the moment)

OK, I checked out, cd-ed to numpy, but "python3 setup.py build" doesn't work. Get

c:\SVNRepository\numpy>python3 setup.py build 'python3' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.

So I tried just c:\SVNRepository\numpy>setup.py build

Saw stuff happen I didn't understand. Maybe complete screwed things up. How do I tell? What's next?

Dick python3 setup.py build _______________________________________________ NumPy-Discussion mailing list NumPy-Discussion@scipy.org http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion

-- GNU/Linux User #479299 skype: fabbri.renato

Get: c:\Python31>python3 setup.py build 'python3' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.

dude, look carefully to your commands, try to start python3 as a interpreter. do simple tests, forward to lists the correct commands. do NOT sniff glue, chloroform or toluene to do this kind of stuff. it is NOT a waste of time, but there are better ways to enjoy the trip. i gotta get some sleep. best regards, _o_o_ oOo _o_o_ rgkttmsfrf.

...

3) read CAREFULLY the output at your console. Specially the last lines. Start looking for an error, try to find where all errors start., that is, where the errors sequence is initiated.

4) When u find out what initiated the error sequence, solve it!

5) when "c:\....\python3 setup.py build" runs smoothly, do "c:\...\python3 setup.py install"

if i may, consider installing a linux distro, maybe ubuntu (ubuntu 10.04 is running very well). life gets better.

best of luck, rf

2010/7/19 Richard D. Moores :

...

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 03:47, Renato Fabbri wrote:

...

anyway, svn and tortoise are very useful.

do some trial an error. try stuff, its easier than one usually imagine.

(tip: checkout the svn address, whatever that should mean to you at the moment)

OK, I checked out, cd-ed to numpy, but "python3 setup.py build" doesn't work. Get

c:\SVNRepository\numpy>python3 setup.py build 'python3' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.

So I tried just c:\SVNRepository\numpy>setup.py build

Saw stuff happen I didn't understand. Maybe complete screwed things up. How do I tell? What's next?

Dick python3 setup.py build _______________________________________________ NumPy-Discussion mailing list NumPy-Discussion@scipy.org http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion

-- GNU/Linux User #479299 skype: fabbri.renato _______________________________________________ NumPy-Discussion mailing list NumPy-Discussion@scipy.org http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion

_______________________________________________ NumPy-Discussion mailing list NumPy-Discussion@scipy.org http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion

-- GNU/Linux User #479299 skype: fabbri.renato

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 04:49, Alan G Isaac wrote:

On 7/19/2010 7:33 AM, Richard D. Moores wrote:

...

'python3' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.

It's just ``python``. hth, Alan Isaac

C:\Python31>dir *.exe  Volume in drive C has no label.  Volume Serial Number is 1464-2B08

 Directory of C:\Python31

03/20/2010  10:58 PM            27,136 python.exe 03/20/2010  11:01 PM            27,648 pythonw.exe                2 File(s)         54,784 bytes                0 Dir(s)  185,158,647,808 bytes free

C:\Python31>python Python 3.1.2 (r312:79149, Mar 20 2010, 22:55:39) [MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

...

...

...

exit()

C:\Python31>python.exe Python 3.1.2 (r312:79149, Mar 20 2010, 22:55:39) [MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

...

...

...

exit()

c:\Python31>python.exe ActivePython 3.1.2.3 (ActiveState Software Inc.) based on Python 3.1.2 (r312:79147, Mar 22 2010, 12:30:45) [MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

...

...

Now what? "Try simple commands"? Like "Lemme outta here!"? Dick

On 07/19/2010 02:08 PM, Richard D. Moores wrote:

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 04:49, Alan G Isaac wrote:

...

On 7/19/2010 7:33 AM, Richard D. Moores wrote:

...

'python3' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.

It's just ``python``. hth, Alan Isaac

C:\Python31>dir *.exe Volume in drive C has no label. Volume Serial Number is 1464-2B08

Directory of C:\Python31

03/20/2010 10:58 PM 27,136 python.exe 03/20/2010 11:01 PM 27,648 pythonw.exe 2 File(s) 54,784 bytes 0 Dir(s) 185,158,647,808 bytes free

C:\Python31>python Python 3.1.2 (r312:79149, Mar 20 2010, 22:55:39) [MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

...

...

...

exit()

C:\Python31>python.exe Python 3.1.2 (r312:79149, Mar 20 2010, 22:55:39) [MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

...

...

...

exit()

c:\Python31>python.exe ActivePython 3.1.2.3 (ActiveState Software Inc.) based on Python 3.1.2 (r312:79147, Mar 22 2010, 12:30:45) [MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

...

...

...

Now what? "Try simple commands"? Like "Lemme outta here!"?

Dick

Well, you might want to read up on some beginners guide for python? It's up to you, of course, but usually before starting with numpy (which extends python), it is advised to have at least some basic python understanding... Googling will give you plenty of good resources, if you'd like to. Then, for the sake of helping you further anyway: you'll have to mind the significance of paths (=directories or folders in windows speak I think). The folder you're currently in, will restrict what you find when typing commands. If you need to reference something from a different folder, you'll need to explicitly specify that. To build numpy, you'll need to be in the numpy source folder (the numpy you extracted from svn). But if you're there, simply typing 'python' or 'python.exe' will probably not work because 'python.exe' is in a different folder (c:\Python31). You could go into that folder, but then you would not be able to find numpy's setup.py script. Best way to solve that: make sure you're in the numpy folder, and type something like: 'c:\Python31\python.exe setup.py build'. That should get you started at least. However, if I'm allowed to give you some unaskedfor advice: this might become lots easier if you make sure you're at least a bit comfortable with 1) the windows command prompt, 2) python, and 3) building python stuff from svn source checkouts. No offence meant. But you sound as you feel a lot more comfortable with pre-built packages compared to building yourself from source on windows... Good luck anyway! Vincent Schut.

_______________________________________________ NumPy-Discussion mailing list NumPy-Discussion@scipy.org http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion

On 07/19/2010 02:56 PM, Richard D. Moores wrote:

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 05:28, Vincent Schut wrote:

...

Well, you might want to read up on some beginners guide for python? It's up to you, of course, but usually before starting with numpy (which extends python), it is advised to have at least some basic python understanding... Googling will give you plenty of good resources, if you'd like to.

I'm not a python beginner. Why did you assume I was?

I appologize, then. This, however, made me think you were: 'Now what? "Try simple commands"? Like "Lemme outta here!"?' Now english is not my native language, so some subtle humour might have escaped me and I may have understood that entirely wrong... :-)

...

Then, for the sake of helping you further anyway: you'll have to mind the significance of paths (=directories or folders in windows speak I think). The folder you're currently in, will restrict what you find when typing commands. If you need to reference something from a different folder, you'll need to explicitly specify that.

Yes, I have that understanding.

Good. The fact that you were starting python from the Python31 folder, and then typed 'now what?' gave me the idea you did not...

...

To build numpy, you'll need to be in the numpy source folder (the numpy you extracted from svn). But if you're there, simply typing 'python' or 'python.exe' will probably not work because 'python.exe' is in a different folder (c:\Python31). You could go into that folder, but then you would not be able to find numpy's setup.py script. Best way to solve that: make sure you're in the numpy folder, and type something like: 'c:\Python31\python.exe setup.py build'. That should get you started at least.

However, if I'm allowed to give you some unaskedfor advice: this might become lots easier if you make sure you're at least a bit comfortable with 1) the windows command prompt, 2) python, and 3) building python stuff from svn source checkouts. No offence meant. But you sound as you feel a lot more comfortable with pre-built packages compared to building yourself from source on windows...

No, I fail your number 3.

Well, than you've come along quite far already, and are on the right list :-) Then, please post the output of your 'python setup.py build' command, which will give us some clues about *why* you fail... (or, if the output is long, try to find the relevant lines indicating where and what goes wrong)

...

Good luck anyway! Vincent Schut.

Thanks, Vincent. And I am more comfortable with pre-built packages.

Most of us are ;-) But sometimes you just need to bite the bullet...

Dick

On 07/19/2010 03:34 PM, Richard D. Moores wrote:

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 06:15, Vincent Schut wrote:

...

On 07/19/2010 02:56 PM, Richard D. Moores wrote:

...

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 05:28, Vincent Schut wrote:

...

Well, you might want to read up on some beginners guide for python? It's up to you, of course, but usually before starting with numpy (which extends python), it is advised to have at least some basic python understanding... Googling will give you plenty of good resources, if you'd like to.

I'm not a python beginner. Why did you assume I was?

I appologize, then. This, however, made me think you were: 'Now what? "Try simple commands"? Like "Lemme outta here!"?' Now english is not my native language, so some subtle humour might have escaped me and I may have understood that entirely wrong... :-)

Oh, that's OK. But it's otherwise hard to believe English is not your native language. Ha, thanks :-) Dutch it is, however realizing that we're just a tiny speck on the world's stage we get tought english from our 10th...

...

...

...

Then, for the sake of helping you further anyway: you'll have to mind the significance of paths (=directories or folders in windows speak I think). The folder you're currently in, will restrict what you find when typing commands. If you need to reference something from a different folder, you'll need to explicitly specify that.

Yes, I have that understanding.

Good. The fact that you were starting python from the Python31 folder, and then typed 'now what?' gave me the idea you did not...

...

...

To build numpy, you'll need to be in the numpy source folder (the numpy you extracted from svn). But if you're there, simply typing 'python' or 'python.exe' will probably not work because 'python.exe' is in a different folder (c:\Python31). You could go into that folder, but then you would not be able to find numpy's setup.py script. Best way to solve that: make sure you're in the numpy folder, and type something like: 'c:\Python31\python.exe setup.py build'. That should get you started at least.

However, if I'm allowed to give you some unaskedfor advice: this might become lots easier if you make sure you're at least a bit comfortable with 1) the windows command prompt, 2) python, and 3) building python stuff from svn source checkouts. No offence meant. But you sound as you feel a lot more comfortable with pre-built packages compared to building yourself from source on windows...

No, I fail your number 3.

Well, than you've come along quite far already, and are on the right list :-) Then, please post the output of your 'python setup.py build' command, which will give us some clues about *why* you fail... (or, if the output is long, try to find the relevant lines indicating where and what goes wrong)

I posted the output as an attached text file in my reply to Dave. Not sure that got to the list as I'm not familiar with the list's rules about attachments.

I, my fault then, I didn't see that. Seen & read it now, though. I'm not a windows users, and am afraid that I can't help you any further anymore with this as your problems seem to be pretty much windows/msvc related... Others on this list will know more, probably.

...

...

Thanks, Vincent. And I am more comfortable with pre-built packages. Most of us are ;-) But sometimes you just need to bite the bullet...

I'm biting, I'm biting (that's another kind of U.S. joking). Actually, several years ago I was using Ulipad, an IDE for Python. It was under active development and frequently updated via svn. So I had and used TortoiseSVN then, but on an old computer. So I'm starting over getting the details of how to use it back.

Ha, I've used ulipad too. Mostly because it's lean 'n mean and doesn't force you to create an entire 'project' to just create a new python script (like eclipse/pydev et.al. do). Have newer hardware now, so the lean 'n' mean argument is of less significance, but still use it sometimes for some quick hacking...

Dick _______________________________________________ NumPy-Discussion mailing list NumPy-Discussion@scipy.org http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion

Richard D. Moores writes:

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 04:49, Alan G Isaac wrote:

...

On 7/19/2010 7:33 AM, Richard D. Moores wrote:

...

'python3' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.

C:\Python31>dir *.exe Volume in drive C has no label. Volume Serial Number is 1464-2B08

Directory of C:\Python31

03/20/2010 10:58 PM 27,136 python.exe 03/20/2010 11:01 PM 27,648 pythonw.exe 2 File(s) 54,784 bytes 0 Dir(s) 185,158,647,808 bytes free

C:\Python31>python.exe Python 3.1.2 (r312:79149, Mar 20 2010, 22:55:39) [MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

...

...

...

exit()

c:\Python31>python.exe ActivePython 3.1.2.3 (ActiveState Software Inc.) based on Python 3.1.2 (r312:79147, Mar 22 2010, 12:30:45) [MSC v.1500 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

...

...

...

Now what? "Try simple commands"? Like "Lemme outta here!"?

Dick

You're 90% of the way there. Now you know that the Python3 "program" is called python.exe and is in the C:\Python31 directory. All you need to do now is compile numpy with the Python3 program. You do this by calling the program with the name of the script (setup.py) you want to run which itself takes an argument telling it what you want to do - e.g. build/install/bdist_wininst. The commands should therefore be: cd c:\SVNRepository\numpy C:\Python31>python setup.py bdist_wininst Assuming you have a C compiler on your system (and in your path) this will then build numpy and create an windows installer (the bdist_wininst argument passed to setup.py) in the dist directory which you can then use to install numpy. HTH, Dave

Dave, I got: c:\SVNRepository\numpy>C:\Python31>python setup.py bdist_wininst 'C:\Python31' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.

Or didn't I do exactly what you suggested?

python setup.py bdist_wininst

...

Assuming you have a C compiler on your system (and in your path)

I'm afraid I have no idea, nor how to find out.

I'm afraid that if you don't know if you have a compiler, you don't have one. This also means you will not be able to compile Numpy, as the official compiler is no longer available. Matthieu -- Information System Engineer, Ph.D. Blog: http://matt.eifelle.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/matthieubrucher

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Matthieu Brucher wrote:

I'm afraid that if you don't know if you have a compiler, you don't have one. This also means you will not be able to compile Numpy, as the official compiler is no longer available.

Is this the VS 2008 Express Edition? I saw something posted a while ago about how it was no longer available, but I think it was a mistake as it still seems to be easily available from: http://www.microsoft.com/express/downloads/#2008-All Even 2005 is still available so I imagine there is some time before we have to worry about 2008. http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=7B0B0339-613A-46E6-AB4D-080D4D4A8C4E&displaylang=en Cheers Robin

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 11:53, Richard D. Moores wrote:

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 07:48, Robin wrote:

...

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Matthieu Brucher wrote:

...

I'm afraid that if you don't know if you have a compiler, you don't have one. This also means you will not be able to compile Numpy, as the official compiler is no longer available.

Is this the VS 2008 Express Edition? I saw something posted a while ago about how it was no longer available, but I think it was a mistake as it still seems to be easily available from:

http://www.microsoft.com/express/downloads/#2008-All

Would Visual Basic 2008 Express Edition have the C compiler? I know some visual basic and wouldn't mine having this limited version of 2008.

You need Visual Studio 2008 Express Edition. Visual Basic 2008 Express Edition is just a component of Visual Studio and does not have the C compiler. Visual C++ 2008 Express Edition is probably sufficient, but I recommend getting the whole Visual Studio if you can afford the time and disk space. -- Robert Kern "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth."   -- Umberto Eco

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 14:17, Richard D. Moores wrote:

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 09:00, Robert Kern wrote:

...

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 11:53, Richard D. Moores wrote:

...

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 07:48, Robin wrote:

...

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Matthieu Brucher wrote:

...

I'm afraid that if you don't know if you have a compiler, you don't have one. This also means you will not be able to compile Numpy, as the official compiler is no longer available.

Is this the VS 2008 Express Edition? I saw something posted a while ago about how it was no longer available, but I think it was a mistake as it still seems to be easily available from:

http://www.microsoft.com/express/downloads/#2008-All

Would Visual Basic 2008 Express Edition have the C compiler? I know some visual basic and wouldn't mine having this limited version of 2008.

You need Visual Studio 2008 Express Edition. Visual Basic 2008 Express Edition is just a component of Visual Studio and does not have the C compiler. Visual C++ 2008 Express Edition is probably sufficient,

You mean it probably has the C compiler.

It definitely has the C compiler. That is *probably* sufficient for compiling Python extensions, but I am not sure.

If it does, I'd just as soon not install any more of VS. And if it does, does that mean that the setup.py in question would find it?

Probably. If you try it, but setup.py still tells you "error: Unable to find vcvarsall.bat", then you may need to find where the file vcvarsall.bat is in your VS-C++ installation and add it to your %PATH% environment variable. Then start a new command shell and try the setup.py again.

...

but I recommend getting the whole Visual Studio if you can afford the time and disk space.

Because you think VS is a good application -- quite apart from its being a source of a C compiler?

No, because it is most likely to work the first time. -- Robert Kern "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth."   -- Umberto Eco

Dave, I got: c:\SVNRepository\numpy>C:\Python31>python setup.py bdist_wininst 'C:\Python31' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.

I shouldn't type "C:\Python31>python setup.py bdist_wininst". but python setup.py bdist_wininst You might have a look at these 2 windows prompt/command line tutorials : http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/tutorial76.html http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/command_line.shtml J.L.

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 06:03, Dave wrote:

My bad - typo. The command to build numpy should have been:

C:\Python31\python setup.py bdist_wininst

I tried that. See the attached.

i.e. the full path and filename of the program you want to run (Python3). Paths are seperated by backslash characters, not greater than signs!

As Matthieu says, if you don't know if you have a C-compiler then you probably don't have one.

I do have one, what's the filename? Dick

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 07:38, Dave wrote:

When you say you "do have one" I'm assuming that when you entered gcc at the command line you got the "gcc: no input files" error message back. In this case we need to tell python to use the gcc compilers.

No, I don't have gcc. I had access to gcc on a shell account, and used it. Dick