Odd numerical difference between Numpy 1.5.1 and Numpy > 1.5.1
All, We noticed some failing tests for statsmodels between numpy 1.5.1 and numpy >= 1.6.0. These are the versions where I noticed the change. It seems that when you divide a float array and multiply by a boolean array the answers are different (unless the others are also off by some floating point). Can anyone replicate the following using this script or point out what I'm missing? import numpy as np print np.__version__ np.random.seed(12345) test = np.random.randint(0,2,size=10).astype(bool) t = 1.345 arr = np.random.random(size=10) arr # okay t/arr # okay (1test)*arr # okay (1test)*t/arr # huh? Python 2.6.5 (r265:79063, Apr 16 2010, 13:57:41) [GCC 4.4.3] on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
import numpy as np print np.__version__ 2.0.0.devfe3852f np.random.seed(12345)
test = np.random.randint(0,2,size=10).astype(bool) t = 1.345 arr = np.random.random(size=10)
arr # okay array([ 0.5955447 , 0.96451452, 0.6531771 , 0.74890664, 0.65356987, 0.74771481, 0.96130674, 0.0083883 , 0.10644438, 0.29870371]) t/arr # okay array([ 2.25843668, 1.39448393, 2.05916589, 1.7959515 , 2.0579284 , 1.79881418, 1.39913718, 160.342421 , 12.63570742, 4.50278968]) (1test)*arr # okay array([ 0.5955447 , 0. , 0. , 0. , 0.65356987, 0. , 0.96130674, 0.0083883 , 0. , 0.29870371]) (1test)*t/arr # huh? array([ 2.25797754, 0. , 0. , 0. , 2.05751003, 0. , 1.39885274, 160.3098235 , 0. , 4.50187427])
Python 2.6.5 (r265:79063, Apr 16 2010, 13:57:41) [GCC 4.4.3] on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
import numpy as np print np.__version__ 1.5.1 np.random.seed(12345)
test = np.random.randint(0,2,size=10).astype(bool) t = 1.345 arr = np.random.random(size=10)
arr # okay array([ 0.5955447 , 0.96451452, 0.6531771 , 0.74890664, 0.65356987, 0.74771481, 0.96130674, 0.0083883 , 0.10644438, 0.29870371]) t/arr # okay array([ 2.25843668, 1.39448393, 2.05916589, 1.7959515 , 2.0579284 , 1.79881418, 1.39913718, 160.342421 , 12.63570742, 4.50278968]) (1test)*arr # okay array([ 0.5955447 , 0. , 0. , 0. , 0.65356987, 0. , 0.96130674, 0.0083883 , 0. , 0.29870371]) (1test)*t/arr # huh? array([ 2.25843668, 0. , 0. , 0. , 2.0579284 , 0. , 1.39913718, 160.342421 , 0. , 4.50278968])
Skipper
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 13:54, Skipper Seabold <jsseabold@gmail.com> wrote:
All,
We noticed some failing tests for statsmodels between numpy 1.5.1 and numpy >= 1.6.0. These are the versions where I noticed the change. It seems that when you divide a float array and multiply by a boolean array the answers are different (unless the others are also off by some floating point). Can anyone replicate the following using this script or point out what I'm missing?
import numpy as np print np.__version__ np.random.seed(12345)
test = np.random.randint(0,2,size=10).astype(bool) t = 1.345 arr = np.random.random(size=10)
arr # okay t/arr # okay (1test)*arr # okay (1test)*t/arr # huh?
[~] 12> 1test array([1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1], dtype=int8) [~] 13> (1test)*t array([ 1.34472656, 0. , 0. , 0. , 1.34472656, 0. , 1.34472656, 1.34472656, 0. , 1.34472656], dtype=float16) Some of the recent ufunc changes or the introduction of the float16 type must have changed the way the dtype is chosen for the "int8array*float64scalar" case. Previously, the result was a float64 array, as expected. Mark, I expect this is a result of one of your changes. Can you take a look at this?  Robert Kern "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth."  Umberto Eco
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 12:54 PM, Skipper Seabold <jsseabold@gmail.com>wrote:
All,
We noticed some failing tests for statsmodels between numpy 1.5.1 and numpy >= 1.6.0. These are the versions where I noticed the change. It seems that when you divide a float array and multiply by a boolean array the answers are different (unless the others are also off by some floating point). Can anyone replicate the following using this script or point out what I'm missing?
import numpy as np print np.__version__ np.random.seed(12345)
test = np.random.randint(0,2,size=10).astype(bool) t = 1.345 arr = np.random.random(size=10)
arr # okay t/arr # okay (1test)*arr # okay (1test)*t/arr # huh?
Python 2.6.5 (r265:79063, Apr 16 2010, 13:57:41) [GCC 4.4.3] on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
import numpy as np print np.__version__ 2.0.0.devfe3852f np.random.seed(12345)
test = np.random.randint(0,2,size=10).astype(bool) t = 1.345 arr = np.random.random(size=10)
arr # okay array([ 0.5955447 , 0.96451452, 0.6531771 , 0.74890664, 0.65356987, 0.74771481, 0.96130674, 0.0083883 , 0.10644438, 0.29870371]) t/arr # okay array([ 2.25843668, 1.39448393, 2.05916589, 1.7959515 , 2.0579284 , 1.79881418, 1.39913718, 160.342421 , 12.63570742, 4.50278968]) (1test)*arr # okay array([ 0.5955447 , 0. , 0. , 0. , 0.65356987, 0. , 0.96130674, 0.0083883 , 0. , 0.29870371]) (1test)*t/arr # huh? array([ 2.25797754, 0. , 0. , 0. , 2.05751003, 0. , 1.39885274, 160.3098235 , 0. , 4.50187427])
Looks like it is going through float16: In [2]: float16(1.345)/0.5955447 Out[2]: 2.25797754979601 The scalar 1.345 should be converted to double and that isn't happening. <snip> Chuck
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 13:54, Skipper Seabold <jsseabold@gmail.com> wrote:
All,
We noticed some failing tests for statsmodels between numpy 1.5.1 and numpy >= 1.6.0. These are the versions where I noticed the change. It seems that when you divide a float array and multiply by a boolean array the answers are different (unless the others are also off by some floating point). Can anyone replicate the following using this script or point out what I'm missing?
import numpy as np print np.__version__ np.random.seed(12345)
test = np.random.randint(0,2,size=10).astype(bool) t = 1.345 arr = np.random.random(size=10)
arr # okay t/arr # okay (1test)*arr # okay (1test)*t/arr # huh?
[~] 12> 1test array([1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1], dtype=int8)
[~] 13> (1test)*t array([ 1.34472656, 0. , 0. , 0. , 1.34472656, 0. , 1.34472656, 1.34472656, 0. , 1.34472656], dtype=float16)
Some of the recent ufunc changes or the introduction of the float16 type must have changed the way the dtype is chosen for the "int8array*float64scalar" case. Previously, the result was a float64 array, as expected.
Mark, I expect this is a result of one of your changes. Can you take a look at this?
It's the type promotion rules change that is causing this, and it's definitely a 1.6.0 release blocker. Good catch! I can think of an easy, reasonable way to fix it in the result_type function, but since the ufuncs themselves use a poor method of resolving the types, it will take some thought to apply the same idea there. Maybe detecting that the ufunc is a binary op at its creation time, setting a flag, and using the result_type function in that case. This would have the added bonus of being faster, too. Going back to the 1.5 code isn't an option, since adding the new data types while maintaining ABI compatibility required major surgery to this part of the system. Mark
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 2:31 PM, Mark Wiebe <mwwiebe@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com>wrote:
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 13:54, Skipper Seabold <jsseabold@gmail.com> wrote:
All,
We noticed some failing tests for statsmodels between numpy 1.5.1 and numpy >= 1.6.0. These are the versions where I noticed the change. It seems that when you divide a float array and multiply by a boolean array the answers are different (unless the others are also off by some floating point). Can anyone replicate the following using this script or point out what I'm missing?
import numpy as np print np.__version__ np.random.seed(12345)
test = np.random.randint(0,2,size=10).astype(bool) t = 1.345 arr = np.random.random(size=10)
arr # okay t/arr # okay (1test)*arr # okay (1test)*t/arr # huh?
[~] 12> 1test array([1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1], dtype=int8)
[~] 13> (1test)*t array([ 1.34472656, 0. , 0. , 0. , 1.34472656, 0. , 1.34472656, 1.34472656, 0. , 1.34472656], dtype=float16)
Some of the recent ufunc changes or the introduction of the float16 type must have changed the way the dtype is chosen for the "int8array*float64scalar" case. Previously, the result was a float64 array, as expected.
Mark, I expect this is a result of one of your changes. Can you take a look at this?
It's the type promotion rules change that is causing this, and it's definitely a 1.6.0 release blocker. Good catch!
I can think of an easy, reasonable way to fix it in the result_type function, but since the ufuncs themselves use a poor method of resolving the types, it will take some thought to apply the same idea there. Maybe detecting that the ufunc is a binary op at its creation time, setting a flag, and using the result_type function in that case. This would have the added bonus of being faster, too.
Going back to the 1.5 code isn't an option, since adding the new data types while maintaining ABI compatibility required major surgery to this part of the system.
There isn't a big rush here, so take the time work it through. Chuck
On Apr 11, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Charles R Harris wrote:
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 2:31 PM, Mark Wiebe <mwwiebe@gmail.com> wrote: On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> wrote: On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 13:54, Skipper Seabold <jsseabold@gmail.com> wrote:
All,
We noticed some failing tests for statsmodels between numpy 1.5.1 and numpy >= 1.6.0. These are the versions where I noticed the change. It seems that when you divide a float array and multiply by a boolean array the answers are different (unless the others are also off by some floating point). Can anyone replicate the following using this script or point out what I'm missing?
import numpy as np print np.__version__ np.random.seed(12345)
test = np.random.randint(0,2,size=10).astype(bool) t = 1.345 arr = np.random.random(size=10)
arr # okay t/arr # okay (1test)*arr # okay (1test)*t/arr # huh?
[~] 12> 1test array([1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1], dtype=int8)
[~] 13> (1test)*t array([ 1.34472656, 0. , 0. , 0. , 1.34472656, 0. , 1.34472656, 1.34472656, 0. , 1.34472656], dtype=float16)
Some of the recent ufunc changes or the introduction of the float16 type must have changed the way the dtype is chosen for the "int8array*float64scalar" case. Previously, the result was a float64 array, as expected.
Mark, I expect this is a result of one of your changes. Can you take a look at this?
It's the type promotion rules change that is causing this, and it's definitely a 1.6.0 release blocker. Good catch!
I can think of an easy, reasonable way to fix it in the result_type function, but since the ufuncs themselves use a poor method of resolving the types, it will take some thought to apply the same idea there. Maybe detecting that the ufunc is a binary op at its creation time, setting a flag, and using the result_type function in that case. This would have the added bonus of being faster, too.
Going back to the 1.5 code isn't an option, since adding the new data types while maintaining ABI compatibility required major surgery to this part of the system.
There isn't a big rush here, so take the time work it through.
I agree with Charles. Let's take the needed time and work this through. This is the sort of thing I was a bit nervous about with the changes made to the casting rules. Right now, I'm not confident that the scalararray casting rules are being handled correctly. From your explanation, I don't understand how you intend to solve the problem. Surely there is a better approach than special casing the binary op and this workaround flag (and why is the result_type even part of the discussion)? It would be good to see a simple test case and understand why the boolean multiplied by the scalar double is becoming a float16. In other words, why does (1test)*t return a float16 array This does not sound right at all and it would be good to understand why this occurs, now. How are you handling scalars multiplied by arrays in general? Travis
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:48 PM, Travis Oliphant <oliphant@enthought.com>wrote:
On Apr 11, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Charles R Harris wrote: <snip> I agree with Charles. Let's take the needed time and work this through. This is the sort of thing I was a bit nervous about with the changes made to the casting rules. Right now, I'm not confident that the scalararray casting rules are being handled correctly.
I would suggest viewing this as having exposed a problem in the NumPy test suite. All necessary type promotion behaviors should have tests for them, and I added tests since before 1.6 there were none. This case, where the scalar type has a greater "kind" than the array type, was missed and had no preexisting tests. If the test suite is thorough, you can be confident that the scalararray casting rules are being handled right. Here's where to add more tests. Both np.add and np.result_type are validated with the same set of tests. https://github.com/numpy/numpy/blob/master/numpy/core/tests/test_numeric.py#...
From your explanation, I don't understand how you intend to solve the problem. Surely there is a better approach than special casing the binary op and this workaround flag (and why is the result_type even part of the discussion)?
Yes, there's definitely a better approach, but I don't see one without changing the ufunc API. In other libraries and programming languages, type promotion is defined with a set of explicit promotion rules, but since the current ufuncs have a list of functions and do linear searches in those lists to find a matching loop, defining and implementing such an explicit rule set is more difficult. The reason to bring the numpy.result_type function into it is that it cleanly encapsulates the NumPy typepromotion rules. A good design needs a single, consistent way to handle type promotion, so that it can be validated to be correct in a single place. I created the numpy.promote_types, numpy.min_scalar_type, and numpy.result_type functions for this purpose, and the numpy.nditer uses this API to determine the output type when it allocates a requested array for output. By fixing result_type, then having the ufunc binary operations use it, we can be confident that the type promotion will be consistent. It would be good to see a simple test case and understand why the boolean
multiplied by the scalar double is becoming a float16. In other words, why does
(1test)*t
return a float16 array
This does not sound right at all and it would be good to understand why this occurs, now. How are you handling scalars multiplied by arrays in general?
The reason it's float16 is that the first function in the multiply function list for which both types can be safely cast to the output type, after applying the min_scalar_type function to the scalars, is float16. The change I'm suggesting is to remove the min_scalar_type part if the "kind" of the scalar type is higher than the "kind" of the array type. Maybe it can be done without switching the ufunc to use result_type in 1.6, but result_type needs to be fixed as well to make the nditer and anything else that wants to follow the ufunc rules be consistent. I created a ticket for the issue here: http://projects.scipy.org/numpy/ticket/1798 Cheers, Mark
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 23:43, Mark Wiebe <mwwiebe@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:48 PM, Travis Oliphant <oliphant@enthought.com> wrote:
It would be good to see a simple test case and understand why the boolean multiplied by the scalar double is becoming a float16. In other words, why does (1test)*t return a float16 array This does not sound right at all and it would be good to understand why this occurs, now. How are you handling scalars multiplied by arrays in general?
The reason it's float16 is that the first function in the multiply function list for which both types can be safely cast to the output type,
Except that float64 cannot be safely cast to float16.
after applying the min_scalar_type function to the scalars, is float16.
This is implemented incorrectly, then. It makes no sense for floats, for which the limiting attribute is precision, not range. For floats, the result of min_scalar_type should be the type of the object itself, nothing else. E.g. min_scalar_type(x)==float64 if type(x) is float no matter what value it has.  Robert Kern "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth."  Umberto Eco
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 23:43, Mark Wiebe <mwwiebe@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:48 PM, Travis Oliphant <oliphant@enthought.com
wrote:
It would be good to see a simple test case and understand why the boolean multiplied by the scalar double is becoming a float16. In other words, why does (1test)*t return a float16 array This does not sound right at all and it would be good to understand why this occurs, now. How are you handling scalars multiplied by arrays in general?
The reason it's float16 is that the first function in the multiply function list for which both types can be safely cast to the output type,
Except that float64 cannot be safely cast to float16.
That's true, but it was already being done this way with respect to float32. Rereading the documentation for min_scalar_type, I see the explanation could elaborate on the purpose of the function further. Float64 cannot be safely cast to float32, but this is what NumPy does:
import numpy as np np.__version__ '1.4.1' np.float64(3.5) * np.ones(2,dtype=np.float32) array([ 3.5, 3.5], dtype=float32)
after
applying the min_scalar_type function to the scalars, is float16.
This is implemented incorrectly, then. It makes no sense for floats, for which the limiting attribute is precision, not range. For floats, the result of min_scalar_type should be the type of the object itself, nothing else. E.g. min_scalar_type(x)==float64 if type(x) is float no matter what value it has.
I believe this behavior is necessary to avoid undesirable promotion of arrays to float64. If you are working with extremely large float32 arrays, and multiply or add a Python float, you would always have to say np.float32(value), something rather tedious. Looking at the archives, I see you've explained this before. ;) http://mail.scipy.org/pipermail/numpydiscussion/2007April/027079.html The reimplementation of type casting, other than for the case at hand which I consider to be a wrong behavior, follows the existing pattern as closely as I could understand it from the previous implementation. I tightened the rules just slightly to avoid some problematic downcasts which previously were occurring:
np.__version__ '1.4.1' 100000*np.ones(2,dtype=np.int8) array([31072, 31072], dtype=int16) 1e60*np.ones(2,dtype=np.float32) array([ Inf, Inf], dtype=float32)
np.__version__ '2.0.0.dev4cb2eb4' 100000*np.ones(2,dtype=np.int8) array([100000, 100000], dtype=int32) 1e60*np.ones(2,dtype=np.float32) array([ 1.00000000e+60, 1.00000000e+60])
Mark
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 11:20, Mark Wiebe <mwwiebe@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 23:43, Mark Wiebe <mwwiebe@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:48 PM, Travis Oliphant <oliphant@enthought.com> wrote:
It would be good to see a simple test case and understand why the boolean multiplied by the scalar double is becoming a float16. In other words, why does (1test)*t return a float16 array This does not sound right at all and it would be good to understand why this occurs, now. How are you handling scalars multiplied by arrays in general?
The reason it's float16 is that the first function in the multiply function list for which both types can be safely cast to the output type,
Except that float64 cannot be safely cast to float16.
That's true, but it was already being done this way with respect to float32. Rereading the documentation for min_scalar_type, I see the explanation could elaborate on the purpose of the function further. Float64 cannot be safely cast to float32, but this is what NumPy does:
import numpy as np np.__version__ '1.4.1' np.float64(3.5) * np.ones(2,dtype=np.float32) array([ 3.5, 3.5], dtype=float32)
You're missing the key part of the rule that numpy uses: for array*scalar cases, when both array and scalar are the same kind (both floating point or both integers), then the array dtype always wins. Only when they are different kinds do you try to negotiate a common safe type between the scalar and the array.  Robert Kern "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth."  Umberto Eco
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 11:20, Mark Wiebe <mwwiebe@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 23:43, Mark Wiebe <mwwiebe@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:48 PM, Travis Oliphant <oliphant@enthought.com> wrote:
It would be good to see a simple test case and understand why the boolean multiplied by the scalar double is becoming a float16. In other words, why does (1test)*t return a float16 array This does not sound right at all and it would be good to understand
why
this occurs, now. How are you handling scalars multiplied by arrays in general?
The reason it's float16 is that the first function in the multiply function list for which both types can be safely cast to the output type,
Except that float64 cannot be safely cast to float16.
That's true, but it was already being done this way with respect to float32. Rereading the documentation for min_scalar_type, I see the explanation could elaborate on the purpose of the function further. Float64 cannot be safely cast to float32, but this is what NumPy does:
import numpy as np np.__version__ '1.4.1' np.float64(3.5) * np.ones(2,dtype=np.float32) array([ 3.5, 3.5], dtype=float32)
You're missing the key part of the rule that numpy uses: for array*scalar cases, when both array and scalar are the same kind (both floating point or both integers), then the array dtype always wins. Only when they are different kinds do you try to negotiate a common safe type between the scalar and the array.
I'm afraid I'm not seeing the point you're driving at, can you provide some examples which tease apart these issues? Here's the same example but with different kinds, and to me it seems to have the same character as the case with float32/float64:
np.__version__ '1.4.1' 1e60*np.ones(2,dtype=np.complex64) array([ Inf NaNj, Inf NaNj], dtype=complex64)
np.__version__ '2.0.0.dev4cb2eb4' 1e60*np.ones(2,dtype=np.complex64) array([ 1.00000000e+60+0.j, 1.00000000e+60+0.j])
Mark
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Mark Wiebe <mwwiebe@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com>wrote:
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 11:20, Mark Wiebe <mwwiebe@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 23:43, Mark Wiebe <mwwiebe@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:48 PM, Travis Oliphant <oliphant@enthought.com> wrote:
It would be good to see a simple test case and understand why the boolean multiplied by the scalar double is becoming a float16. In other words, why does (1test)*t return a float16 array This does not sound right at all and it would be good to understand
why
this occurs, now. How are you handling scalars multiplied by arrays in general?
The reason it's float16 is that the first function in the multiply function list for which both types can be safely cast to the output type,
Except that float64 cannot be safely cast to float16.
That's true, but it was already being done this way with respect to float32. Rereading the documentation for min_scalar_type, I see the explanation could elaborate on the purpose of the function further. Float64 cannot be safely cast to float32, but this is what NumPy does:
import numpy as np np.__version__ '1.4.1' np.float64(3.5) * np.ones(2,dtype=np.float32) array([ 3.5, 3.5], dtype=float32)
You're missing the key part of the rule that numpy uses: for array*scalar cases, when both array and scalar are the same kind (both floating point or both integers), then the array dtype always wins. Only when they are different kinds do you try to negotiate a common safe type between the scalar and the array.
I'm afraid I'm not seeing the point you're driving at, can you provide some examples which tease apart these issues? Here's the same example but with different kinds, and to me it seems to have the same character as the case with float32/float64:
np.__version__ '1.4.1' 1e60*np.ones(2,dtype=np.complex64) array([ Inf NaNj, Inf NaNj], dtype=complex64)
np.__version__ '2.0.0.dev4cb2eb4' 1e60*np.ones(2,dtype=np.complex64) array([ 1.00000000e+60+0.j, 1.00000000e+60+0.j])
IIRC, the behavior with respect to scalars sort of happened in the code on the fly, so this is a good discussion to have. We should end up with documented rules and tests to enforce them. I agree with Mark that the tests have been deficient up to this point. Chuck
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Mark Wiebe <mwwiebe@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com>wrote:
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:48 PM, Travis Oliphant <
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 23:43, Mark Wiebe <mwwiebe@gmail.com> wrote: oliphant@enthought.com>
wrote:
It would be good to see a simple test case and understand why the boolean multiplied by the scalar double is becoming a float16. In other words, why does (1test)*t return a float16 array This does not sound right at all and it would be good to understand why this occurs, now. How are you handling scalars multiplied by arrays in general?
The reason it's float16 is that the first function in the multiply function list for which both types can be safely cast to the output type,
Except that float64 cannot be safely cast to float16.
That's true, but it was already being done this way with respect to float32. Rereading the documentation for min_scalar_type, I see the explanation could elaborate on the purpose of the function further. Float64 cannot be safely cast to float32, but this is what NumPy does:
Yep, I remember noticing that on occasion. I didn't think it was really the right thing to do... <snip> Chuck
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 12:27, Charles R Harris <charlesr.harris@gmail.com> wrote:
IIRC, the behavior with respect to scalars sort of happened in the code on the fly, so this is a good discussion to have. We should end up with documented rules and tests to enforce them. I agree with Mark that the tests have been deficient up to this point.
It's been documented for a long time now. http://docs.scipy.org/doc/numpy/reference/ufuncs.html#castingrules  Robert Kern "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth."  Umberto Eco
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 12:27, Charles R Harris <charlesr.harris@gmail.com> wrote:
IIRC, the behavior with respect to scalars sort of happened in the code on the fly, so this is a good discussion to have. We should end up with documented rules and tests to enforce them. I agree with Mark that the tests have been deficient up to this point.
It's been documented for a long time now.
http://docs.scipy.org/doc/numpy/reference/ufuncs.html#castingrules
Nope, the kind stuff is missing. Note the cast to float32 that Mark pointed out. Also that the casting of python integers depends on their sign and magnitude. In [1]: ones(3, '?') + 0 Out[1]: array([1, 1, 1], dtype=int8) In [2]: ones(3, '?') + 1000 Out[2]: array([1001, 1001, 1001], dtype=int16) Chuck
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Charles R Harris < charlesr.harris@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com>wrote:
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 12:27, Charles R Harris <charlesr.harris@gmail.com> wrote:
IIRC, the behavior with respect to scalars sort of happened in the code on the fly, so this is a good discussion to have. We should end up with documented rules and tests to enforce them. I agree with Mark that the tests have been deficient up to this point.
It's been documented for a long time now.
http://docs.scipy.org/doc/numpy/reference/ufuncs.html#castingrules
Nope, the kind stuff is missing. Note the cast to float32 that Mark pointed out. Also that the casting of python integers depends on their sign and magnitude.
In [1]: ones(3, '?') + 0 Out[1]: array([1, 1, 1], dtype=int8)
In [2]: ones(3, '?') + 1000 Out[2]: array([1001, 1001, 1001], dtype=int16)
This is the behaviour with master  it's a good idea to crosscheck with an older NumPy. I think we're discussing 3 things here, what NumPy 1.5 and earlier did, what NumPy 1.6 beta currently does, and what people think NumPy did. The old implementation had a bit of a spaghettifactor to it, and had problems like asymmetry and silent overflows. The new implementation is in my opinion cleaner and follows welldefined semantics while trying to stay true to the old implementation. I admit the documentation I wrote doesn't fully explain them, but here's the rule for a set of arbitrary arrays (not necessarily just 2):  if all the arrays are scalars, do type promotion on the types as is  otherwise, do type promotion on min_scalar_type(a) of each array a The function min_scalar_type returns the array type if a has >= 1 dimensions, or the smallest type of the same kind (allowing int>uint in the case of positivevalued signed integers) to which the value can be cast without overflow if a has 0 dimensions. The promote_types function used for the type promotion is symmetric and associative, so the result won't change when shuffling the inputs. There's a bit of a wrinkle in the implementation to handle the fact that the uint type values aren't a strict subset of the samesized int type values, but otherwise this is what happens. https://github.com/numpy/numpy/blob/master/numpy/core/src/multiarray/convert... The change I'm proposing is to modify this as follows:  if all the arrays are scalars, do type promotion on the types as is  if the maximum kind of all the scalars is > the maximum kind of all the arrays, do type promotion on the types as is  otherwise, do type promotion on min_scalar_type(a) of each array a One case where this may not capture a possible desired semantics is [complex128 scalar] * [float32 array] > [complex128]. In this case [complex64] may be desired. This is directly analogous to the original [float64 scalar] * [int8 array], however, and in the latter case it's clear a float64 should result. Mark
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 11:49, Mark Wiebe <mwwiebe@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> wrote:
You're missing the key part of the rule that numpy uses: for array*scalar cases, when both array and scalar are the same kind (both floating point or both integers), then the array dtype always wins. Only when they are different kinds do you try to negotiate a common safe type between the scalar and the array.
I'm afraid I'm not seeing the point you're driving at, can you provide some examples which tease apart these issues? Here's the same example but with different kinds, and to me it seems to have the same character as the case with float32/float64:
np.__version__ '1.4.1' 1e60*np.ones(2,dtype=np.complex64) array([ Inf NaNj, Inf NaNj], dtype=complex64) np.__version__ '2.0.0.dev4cb2eb4' 1e60*np.ones(2,dtype=np.complex64) array([ 1.00000000e+60+0.j, 1.00000000e+60+0.j])
The point is that when you multiply an array by a scalar, and the arraydtype is the same kind as the scalardtype, the output dtype is the arraydtype. That's what gets you the behavior of the float32array staying the same when you multiply it with a Python float(64). min_scalar_type should never be consulted in this case, so you don't need to try to account for this case in its rules. This crosskind example is irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make. For crosskind operations, then you do need to find a common output type that is safe for both array and scalar. However, please keep in mind that for floating point types, keeping precision is more important than range!  Robert Kern "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth."  Umberto Eco
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 13:17, Charles R Harris <charlesr.harris@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 12:27, Charles R Harris <charlesr.harris@gmail.com> wrote:
IIRC, the behavior with respect to scalars sort of happened in the code on the fly, so this is a good discussion to have. We should end up with documented rules and tests to enforce them. I agree with Mark that the tests have been deficient up to this point.
It's been documented for a long time now.
http://docs.scipy.org/doc/numpy/reference/ufuncs.html#castingrules
Nope, the kind stuff is missing. Note the cast to float32 that Mark pointed out.
The float32array*float64scalar case? That's covered in the last paragraph; they are the same kind so array dtype wins.
Also that the casting of python integers depends on their sign and magnitude.
In [1]: ones(3, '?') + 0 Out[1]: array([1, 1, 1], dtype=int8)
In [2]: ones(3, '?') + 1000 Out[2]: array([1001, 1001, 1001], dtype=int16)
bool and int cross kinds. Not a counterexample. I'm not saying that the size of the values should be ignored for crosskind upcasting. I'm saying that you don't need valuesize calculations to preserve the float32array*float64scalar behavior.  Robert Kern "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth."  Umberto Eco
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Mark Wiebe <mwwiebe@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
here's the rule for a set of arbitrary arrays (not necessarily just 2):
 if all the arrays are scalars, do type promotion on the types as is  otherwise, do type promotion on min_scalar_type(a) of each array a
The function min_scalar_type returns the array type if a has >= 1 dimensions, or the smallest type of the same kind (allowing int>uint in the case of positivevalued signed integers) to which the value can be cast without overflow if a has 0 dimensions.
The promote_types function used for the type promotion is symmetric and associative, so the result won't change when shuffling the inputs. There's a bit of a wrinkle in the implementation to handle the fact that the uint type values aren't a strict subset of the samesized int type values, but otherwise this is what happens.
https://github.com/numpy/numpy/blob/master/numpy/core/src/multiarray/convert...
The change I'm proposing is to modify this as follows:
 if all the arrays are scalars, do type promotion on the types as is  if the maximum kind of all the scalars is > the maximum kind of all the arrays, do type promotion on the types as is  otherwise, do type promotion on min_scalar_type(a) of each array a
One case where this may not capture a possible desired semantics is [complex128 scalar] * [float32 array] > [complex128]. In this case [complex64] may be desired. This is directly analogous to the original [float64 scalar] * [int8 array], however, and in the latter case it's clear a float64 should result.
I've implemented what I suggested, and improved the documentation to better explain what's going on. One thing I adjusted slightly is instead of using the existing kinds, I used three categories: boolean, integer (int/uint), and floating point (float/complex). This way, we get [float32 array] + 0j producing a [complex64 array] instead of a [complex128 array], while still fixing the original regression. Please review my patch, thanks in advance! https://github.com/numpy/numpy/pull/73 Cheers, Mark
On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Mark Wiebe <mwwiebe@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Mark Wiebe <mwwiebe@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
here's the rule for a set of arbitrary arrays (not necessarily just 2):
 if all the arrays are scalars, do type promotion on the types as is  otherwise, do type promotion on min_scalar_type(a) of each array a
The function min_scalar_type returns the array type if a has >= 1 dimensions, or the smallest type of the same kind (allowing int>uint in the case of positivevalued signed integers) to which the value can be cast without overflow if a has 0 dimensions.
The promote_types function used for the type promotion is symmetric and associative, so the result won't change when shuffling the inputs. There's a bit of a wrinkle in the implementation to handle the fact that the uint type values aren't a strict subset of the samesized int type values, but otherwise this is what happens.
https://github.com/numpy/numpy/blob/master/numpy/core/src/multiarray/convert...
The change I'm proposing is to modify this as follows:
 if all the arrays are scalars, do type promotion on the types as is  if the maximum kind of all the scalars is > the maximum kind of all the arrays, do type promotion on the types as is  otherwise, do type promotion on min_scalar_type(a) of each array a
One case where this may not capture a possible desired semantics is [complex128 scalar] * [float32 array] > [complex128]. In this case [complex64] may be desired. This is directly analogous to the original [float64 scalar] * [int8 array], however, and in the latter case it's clear a float64 should result.
I've implemented what I suggested, and improved the documentation to better explain what's going on. One thing I adjusted slightly is instead of using the existing kinds, I used three categories: boolean, integer (int/uint), and floating point (float/complex). This way, we get [float32 array] + 0j producing a [complex64 array] instead of a [complex128 array], while still fixing the original regression.
Please review my patch, thanks in advance!
https://github.com/numpy/numpy/pull/73
Cheers, Mark
I forgot to mention that Travis was right, and it wasn't necessary to detect that the ufunc is a binary operator. I think at some point splitting out binary operators as a special case of ufuncs is desirable for performance reasons, but for now this patch is much simpler. Mark
participants (5)

Charles R Harris

Mark Wiebe

Robert Kern

Skipper Seabold

Travis Oliphant