best way to keep up on only threads I choose to care about?
From within HK, how do I find out what threads have new posts (the front page seems to list the 5 latest, but what happens when there are more than that)? And is there a way to mute threads so I don't get notified of any more comments? Right now it seems that all there is are favourites, so that would mean needing to discover that a thread is new, read it, and if I have any passing interest in keeping up to mark it as a favourite and then watching there. But then that would lead to a ton of favourites which won't be usable if they don't sort by latest activity. And tags search the individual emails and don't show a thread overview so I can (ab)use them for that. Basically how am I supposed to manage the email volume from HK?
Mailman2 archives to 2016/07: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/overload-sig/." <overload-sig.python.org> List-Help: <mailto:overload-sig-request@python.org?subject=help> List-Post: <mailto:overload-sig@python.org> List-Subscribe: <mailto:overload-sig-join@python.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:overload-sig-leave@python.org> Brett Cannon writes:
From within HK, how do I find out what threads have new posts (the front page seems to list the 5 latest, but what happens when there are more than that)?
A "More ..." button appears at the bottom of the list. Ditto "Most Active Discussions", and "Discussions You've Flagged".
And is there a way to mute threads so I don't get notified of any more comments?
Probably not in the way that you want it. Even if there is no way to do that now, it wouldn't be hard to implement muting a whole thread all the way back to the root. But I don't think HyperKitty currently has a concept of "subthread", which is what I often want to mute. That would be harder.
Right now it seems that all there is are favourites, so that would mean needing to discover that a thread is new, read it, and if I have any passing interest in keeping up to mark it as a favourite and then watching there. But then that would lead to a ton of favourites which won't be usable if they don't sort by latest activity.
They do sort by latest activity, with the same UI (popdown button at the top, "More ..." button at the bottom) as the other list widgets. Unfortunately, the thread lists don't seem to interact (that is, a thread appears in all applicable lists). I think it would be a good idea to have a browser view, with the following content: 1. Favorites (and not muted) sorted by activity 2. Recently active (not in #1 and not muted) sorted by activity, with some sort of flag for new threads (thread comment count of zero tells you that, but it takes effort to look for it). and a "stats" view, with each list computed separately and ignoring personal "mute" settings, as at present. Yes, I think you should be able to mute a favorite, and muting should take precedence over flagging.
Basically how am I supposed to manage the email volume from HK?
*sigh* I expected this. The way the Mailman developers have seen it to this point, you manage email in realtime with an MUA .... HyperKitty is a better way to manage archival threads, with *some* features of a web MUA and with *some* features of a webforum. We can change that point of view -- at least Barry and I are already putting some effort into rethinking that aspect of the spec (Barry has always wanted such features). We can put more MUA/forum-ish stuff in. But for intelligent handling of message flows, HyperKitty will probably never match the abilities of the most powerful MUAs. On the other hand, we can make it tunable to the specific needs of dev lists like python-dev and python-ideas. Caveat: it can't linearize threads as well as a forum can, because some of us will continue to interact with mailing lists via mail. Will that be enough, and will it be worth the wait? You tell me. ;-)
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Brett Cannon writes:
A "More ..." button appears at the bottom of the list. Ditto "Most Active Discussions", and "Discussions You've Flagged".
Probably not in the way that you want it. Even if there is no way to do that now, it wouldn't be hard to implement muting a whole thread all the way back to the root. But I don't think HyperKitty currently has a concept of "subthread", which is what I often want to mute. That would be harder.
They do sort by latest activity, with the same UI (popdown button at the top, "More ..." button at the bottom) as the other list widgets.
Unfortunately, the thread lists don't seem to interact (that is, a thread appears in all applicable lists). I think it would be a good idea to have a browser view, with the following content:
1. Favorites (and not muted) sorted by activity 2. Recently active (not in #1 and not muted) sorted by activity, with some sort of flag for new threads (thread comment count of zero tells you that, but it takes effort to look for it).
and a "stats" view, with each list computed separately and ignoring personal "mute" settings, as at present.
Yes, I think you should be able to mute a favorite, and muting should take precedence over flagging.
Weird, hitting Quote in HK strips out the part of my email you replied to so all I see is a wall of your replies w/ no context. :(
*sigh* I expected this. The way the Mailman developers have seen it to this point, you manage email in realtime with an MUA ....
But newcomers won't view it that way. In a world where businesses don't even email as much thanks to Twitter and chat bots and custom mobile apps, businesses eschewing email for Slack, etc, I see email as becoming less and less critical to people and thus less and less likely to find new participants who have a powerful MUA setup to handle the email volumes we can see. I get the perspective that the Mailman team is coming from, but I worry that the view isn't held by e.g. people in university these days.
HyperKitty is a better way to manage archival threads, with *some* features of a web MUA and with *some* features of a webforum.
Ah, that explains things a bit. Unfortunately that's not what I want personally. If I could turn off email delivery tomorrow for all of my mailing lists and do it through a browser I would quite happily (imagine a world where I get less than 10 emails/day; that would be glorious :).
We can change that point of view -- at least Barry and I are already putting some effort into rethinking that aspect of the spec (Barry has always wanted such features). We can put more MUA/forum-ish stuff in. But for intelligent handling of message flows, HyperKitty will probably never match the abilities of the most powerful MUAs. On the other hand, we can make it tunable to the specific needs of dev lists like python-dev and python-ideas.
Personally, all I want is a way to ignore/mute/mark-as-read bad actors -- bonus points for letting votes help identify them somehow -- and a way to mute an entire email thread saying that I'm done caring (much like Gmail's mute feature). Oh, and fix quoting. :)
Caveat: it can't linearize threads as well as a forum can, because some of us will continue to interact with mailing lists via mail.
Will that be enough, and will it be worth the wait? You tell me. ;-)
If it can do what I outlined above then that's good enough for me. For my email uses through Gmail all I have ever done is muted threads, set up a filter to set certain users to have their emails automatically marked as read (so I don't lose context but I can ignore them if they're the last person to reply), and group emails by mailing list (and obviously reply to emails). I don't care about fancy threading or any of the other stuff that you can't do if you use a MUA other than Gmail as I moved off of Pine and Thunderbird over a decade ago and don't plan to go back (I love my Chromebook too much and ability to work from both home and work with the same setup across OSs is important to me).
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On Aug 9, 2016, at 12:39 PM, Brett Cannon <brett@python.org> wrote:
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For some reason, these emails keep getting these weird headers at the top. Is something broken here?
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Brett Cannon writes:
A "More ..." button appears at the bottom of the list. Ditto "Most Active Discussions", and "Discussions You've Flagged".
Probably not in the way that you want it. Even if there is no way to do that now, it wouldn't be hard to implement muting a whole thread all the way back to the root. But I don't think HyperKitty currently has a concept of "subthread", which is what I often want to mute. That would be harder.
They do sort by latest activity, with the same UI (popdown button at the top, "More ..." button at the bottom) as the other list widgets.
Unfortunately, the thread lists don't seem to interact (that is, a thread appears in all applicable lists). I think it would be a good idea to have a browser view, with the following content:
1. Favorites (and not muted) sorted by activity 2. Recently active (not in #1 and not muted) sorted by activity, with some sort of flag for new threads (thread comment count of zero tells you that, but it takes effort to look for it).
and a "stats" view, with each list computed separately and ignoring personal "mute" settings, as at present.
Yes, I think you should be able to mute a favorite, and muting should take precedence over flagging.
Weird, hitting Quote in HK strips out the part of my email you replied to so all I see is a wall of your replies w/ no context. :(
*sigh* I expected this. The way the Mailman developers have seen it to this point, you manage email in realtime with an MUA ....
But newcomers won't view it that way. In a world where businesses don't even email as much thanks to Twitter and chat bots and custom mobile apps, businesses eschewing email for Slack, etc, I see email as becoming less and less critical to people and thus less and less likely to find new participants who have a powerful MUA setup to handle the email volumes we can see. I get the perspective that the Mailman team is coming from, but I worry that the view isn't held by e.g. people in university these days.
My MUA is Mail.app with no filters or special set up. I pretty much avoid the “powerful” MUAs because I don’t feel like spending a bunch of time maintaining a MUA like I already have to maintain an editing environment. If the incoming volume of mail gets too high from a particular list, I just leave that list and stop participating. I have enough to do that load shedding environments that don’t give me the tools I need to sanely participate is an easy choice.
HyperKitty is a better way to manage archival threads, with *some* features of a web MUA and with *some* features of a webforum.
Ah, that explains things a bit. Unfortunately that's not what I want personally. If I could turn off email delivery tomorrow for all of my mailing lists and do it through a browser I would quite happily (imagine a world where I get less than 10 emails/day; that would be glorious :).
Agree completely here. The only change I’d say is the ability to turn on email delivery per top level thread and if someone explicitly mentions me (though that’d be harder with MM, I guess they’d just have to explicitly add my email to the CC rather than mention me, that’d be fine too).
We can change that point of view -- at least Barry and I are already putting some effort into rethinking that aspect of the spec (Barry has always wanted such features). We can put more MUA/forum-ish stuff in. But for intelligent handling of message flows, HyperKitty will probably never match the abilities of the most powerful MUAs. On the other hand, we can make it tunable to the specific needs of dev lists like python-dev and python-ideas.
Personally, all I want is a way to ignore/mute/mark-as-read bad actors -- bonus points for letting votes help identify them somehow -- and a way to mute an entire email thread saying that I'm done caring (much like Gmail's mute feature). Oh, and fix quoting. :)
Agree as well.
Caveat: it can't linearize threads as well as a forum can, because some of us will continue to interact with mailing lists via mail.
Will that be enough, and will it be worth the wait? You tell me. ;-)
If it can do what I outlined above then that's good enough for me. For my email uses through Gmail all I have ever done is muted threads, set up a filter to set certain users to have their emails automatically marked as read (so I don't lose context but I can ignore them if they're the last person to reply), and group emails by mailing list (and obviously reply to emails). I don't care about fancy threading or any of the other stuff that you can't do if you use a MUA other than Gmail as I moved off of Pine and Thunderbird over a decade ago and don't plan to go back (I love my Chromebook too much and ability to work from both home and work with the same setup across OSs is important to me).
— Donald Stufft
participants (3)
-
Brett Cannon -
Donald Stufft -
Stephen J. Turnbull