(let's use a new thread for discourse, as it is a different discussion from the website hosting I think, regardless whether OVH might also host discourse) I am not familiar enough myself with discourse to know whether multiple projects sharing a single discourse will become annoying. But indeed, that sounds as it needs some kind of hierarchical category / tagging. For pandas itself: I think I quite like the idea of having a discourse, but *if* we do that, we should think about how that fits with / replaces / adds to /... some of the other communication channels (pandas-dev mailing list, pydata mailing list, github issues, ..). Joris On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 13:18, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm fine with that conceptually, but I think Discourse will make things quite tricky to find things then.
We already got our discourse approved, if you want to join it an experiment with the setting. But it's the first thing I tried, and after you join a category (project), everything feels like it's in the same place (even if subcategories and tags exist). And I think we need at least a clear separation between pandas/users pandas/contributors discussions.
May be I just couldn't find the settings, let me know if you manage to get a multi-project set up that makes sense.
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Tom Augspurger < tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd prefer to join a discourse along with NumPy, Dask, and other PyData or NumFOCUS projects, rather than going out on our own.
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:47 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know much about discourse, but why do we want to self-host it? Seems like Discourse does it for free for open source projects: https://free.discourse.group/ And I don't think we want another system to maintain. Am I missing something?
I applied for https://pandas.discourse.group, so we can give it a try. We should have it approved and working in couple of days.
For what I saw, Discourse has one level of categories, so I guess we want one per project, so we can have categories for "Users", "Contributors", "Ecosystem"... or something similar. I guess if we have a single Discourse for NumFOCUS, every project will be a category, and it'll be difficult to group conversations.
If anyone already has experience with Discourse and disagrees with my guesses, please let me know.
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:32 PM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
Sounds great to me. Just let me know where everything goes.
NumPy wants me to help host a discourse for them, maybe OVH would be a good place to do that as well, (although I would be more inclinded if it was pydata and we had pandas, scipy, and numpy on it).
-- Andy
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Tom Augspurger < tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote:
Sounds good w.r.t crediting OVH on those pages.
For the ASV results at pandas.pydata.org/speed (which I now notice is currently broken for pandas), the only thing on the webserver is a cron job doing a `git pull` from https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-collection, from within `/usr/share/nginx`.
Tom
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:18 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
An update on the new website infrastructure. We need to finish discussing the details, but OVH is happy to provide the hosting for the pandas infrastructure we need.
My initial idea is to credit them in the page with the rest of the sponsors in the new website: https://datapythonista.github.io/pandas-web/community/team.html#institutiona... and also in the top right corner of the runnable code widgets (see for example where Binder is credited here: https://spacy.io/).
What I'd like to ask is:
1. For the production website and docs (static content only, for the traffic we need): https://us.ovhcloud.com/products/public-cloud/object-storage 2. For our tools and processes, like the benchmarks, builds, CI stuff (temporary publish the docs for every PR,...): https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml (VPS SSD 3) 3. For BinderHub (runnable code in our docs, launch tutorials on Binder...): https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/kubernetes/
For the BinderHub, QuantStack offered help with the set up (which is great, because I don't know much about Binder myself, and I'm not sure if anyone else does or wants to take care of this). I don't think it'll be easy to estimate how big is the cluster we need beforehand, but I guess we can add things to Binder iteratively, and have more info as we grow.
OVH gave us a 200 euros voucher to experiment with the different services. Let me know how all this sounds, and if there are no objections, I'll create an account and buy those services with the voucher, and I'll start to prototype and see how everything works.
Cheers!
On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:06 PM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Somehow related to the work on the new website ( > https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've been > discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy soon > (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable with > Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a Jupyter in > mybinder). > > While they are very happy with the idea of having this is pandas, > it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is able to > handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working on it too > (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the examples). > > I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on whether > they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas (or may > be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it goes, but > wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is interested > in participating in the discussions. Of course before any decision is made > I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub. > > As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server for the > website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev docs > (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will generate > them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these two > servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or > something like that). > > Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or whatever. > > Cheers! > _______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
-- Andy R. Terrel, PhD President NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
_______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
Thanks Joris for splitting the thread, sorry if I hijacked the other one. For some discussion from numpy you can see here https://github.com/numpy/numpy.org/issues/28 Julia and Jupyter both run their own discourse but Dask, Numpy, Scipy have all told me “I don’t want to run it ourselves but be part of a larger one” I bet we can figure out how to organize it. I just put in an application to get pydata.discourse.org. — Andy On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:52 AM Joris Van den Bossche < jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote:
(let's use a new thread for discourse, as it is a different discussion from the website hosting I think, regardless whether OVH might also host discourse)
I am not familiar enough myself with discourse to know whether multiple projects sharing a single discourse will become annoying. But indeed, that sounds as it needs some kind of hierarchical category / tagging.
For pandas itself: I think I quite like the idea of having a discourse, but *if* we do that, we should think about how that fits with / replaces / adds to /... some of the other communication channels (pandas-dev mailing list, pydata mailing list, github issues, ..).
Joris
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 13:18, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm fine with that conceptually, but I think Discourse will make things quite tricky to find things then.
We already got our discourse approved, if you want to join it an experiment with the setting. But it's the first thing I tried, and after you join a category (project), everything feels like it's in the same place (even if subcategories and tags exist). And I think we need at least a clear separation between pandas/users pandas/contributors discussions.
May be I just couldn't find the settings, let me know if you manage to get a multi-project set up that makes sense.
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Tom Augspurger < tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd prefer to join a discourse along with NumPy, Dask, and other PyData or NumFOCUS projects, rather than going out on our own.
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:47 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know much about discourse, but why do we want to self-host it? Seems like Discourse does it for free for open source projects: https://free.discourse.group/ And I don't think we want another system to maintain. Am I missing something?
I applied for https://pandas.discourse.group, so we can give it a try. We should have it approved and working in couple of days.
For what I saw, Discourse has one level of categories, so I guess we want one per project, so we can have categories for "Users", "Contributors", "Ecosystem"... or something similar. I guess if we have a single Discourse for NumFOCUS, every project will be a category, and it'll be difficult to group conversations.
If anyone already has experience with Discourse and disagrees with my guesses, please let me know.
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:32 PM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
Sounds great to me. Just let me know where everything goes.
NumPy wants me to help host a discourse for them, maybe OVH would be a good place to do that as well, (although I would be more inclinded if it was pydata and we had pandas, scipy, and numpy on it).
-- Andy
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Tom Augspurger < tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote:
Sounds good w.r.t crediting OVH on those pages.
For the ASV results at pandas.pydata.org/speed (which I now notice is currently broken for pandas), the only thing on the webserver is a cron job doing a `git pull` from https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-collection, from within `/usr/share/nginx`.
Tom
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:18 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, > > An update on the new website infrastructure. We need to finish > discussing the details, but OVH is happy to provide the hosting for the > pandas infrastructure we need. > > My initial idea is to credit them in the page with the rest of the > sponsors in the new website: > https://datapythonista.github.io/pandas-web/community/team.html#institutiona... and > also in the top right corner of the runnable code widgets (see for example > where Binder is credited here: https://spacy.io/). > > What I'd like to ask is: > > 1. For the production website and docs (static content only, for the > traffic we need): > https://us.ovhcloud.com/products/public-cloud/object-storage > 2. For our tools and processes, like the benchmarks, builds, CI > stuff (temporary publish the docs for every PR,...): > https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml (VPS SSD 3) > 3. For BinderHub (runnable code in our docs, launch tutorials on > Binder...): https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/kubernetes/ > > For the BinderHub, QuantStack offered help with the set up (which is > great, because I don't know much about Binder myself, and I'm not sure if > anyone else does or wants to take care of this). I don't think it'll be > easy to estimate how big is the cluster we need beforehand, but I guess we > can add things to Binder iteratively, and have more info as we grow. > > OVH gave us a 200 euros voucher to experiment with the different > services. Let me know how all this sounds, and if there are no objections, > I'll create an account and buy those services with the voucher, and I'll > start to prototype and see how everything works. > > Cheers! > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:06 PM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Somehow related to the work on the new website ( >> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've been >> discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy soon >> (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable with >> Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a Jupyter in >> mybinder). >> >> While they are very happy with the idea of having this is pandas, >> it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is able to >> handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working on it too >> (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the examples). >> >> I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on whether >> they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas (or may >> be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it goes, but >> wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is interested >> in participating in the discussions. Of course before any decision is made >> I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub. >> >> As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server for the >> website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev docs >> (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will generate >> them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these two >> servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or >> something like that). >> >> Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or >> whatever. >> >> Cheers! >> > _______________________________________________ > Pandas-dev mailing list > Pandas-dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >
-- Andy R. Terrel, PhD President NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
_______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
-- Andy R. Terrel, PhD President NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:57 AM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
Thanks Joris for splitting the thread, sorry if I hijacked the other one.
For some discussion from numpy you can see here https://github.com/numpy/numpy.org/issues/28
Julia and Jupyter both run their own discourse but Dask, Numpy, Scipy have all told me “I don’t want to run it ourselves but be part of a larger one”
I bet we can figure out how to organize it.
I just put in an application to get pydata.discourse.org.
— Andy
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:52 AM Joris Van den Bossche < jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote:
(let's use a new thread for discourse, as it is a different discussion from the website hosting I think, regardless whether OVH might also host discourse)
I am not familiar enough myself with discourse to know whether multiple projects sharing a single discourse will become annoying. But indeed, that sounds as it needs some kind of hierarchical category / tagging.
For pandas itself: I think I quite like the idea of having a discourse, but *if* we do that, we should think about how that fits with / replaces / adds to /... some of the other communication channels (pandas-dev mailing list, pydata mailing list, github issues, ..).
IMO, we can replace the pandas-dev & pydata mailing lists with it. Possibly gitter as well.
Joris
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 13:18, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm fine with that conceptually, but I think Discourse will make things quite tricky to find things then.
We already got our discourse approved, if you want to join it an experiment with the setting. But it's the first thing I tried, and after you join a category (project), everything feels like it's in the same place (even if subcategories and tags exist). And I think we need at least a clear separation between pandas/users pandas/contributors discussions.
May be I just couldn't find the settings, let me know if you manage to get a multi-project set up that makes sense.
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Tom Augspurger < tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd prefer to join a discourse along with NumPy, Dask, and other PyData or NumFOCUS projects, rather than going out on our own.
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:47 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know much about discourse, but why do we want to self-host it? Seems like Discourse does it for free for open source projects: https://free.discourse.group/ And I don't think we want another system to maintain. Am I missing something?
I applied for https://pandas.discourse.group, so we can give it a try. We should have it approved and working in couple of days.
For what I saw, Discourse has one level of categories, so I guess we want one per project, so we can have categories for "Users", "Contributors", "Ecosystem"... or something similar. I guess if we have a single Discourse for NumFOCUS, every project will be a category, and it'll be difficult to group conversations.
If anyone already has experience with Discourse and disagrees with my guesses, please let me know.
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:32 PM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
Sounds great to me. Just let me know where everything goes.
NumPy wants me to help host a discourse for them, maybe OVH would be a good place to do that as well, (although I would be more inclinded if it was pydata and we had pandas, scipy, and numpy on it).
-- Andy
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Tom Augspurger < tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sounds good w.r.t crediting OVH on those pages. > > For the ASV results at pandas.pydata.org/speed (which I now notice > is currently broken for pandas), the only thing on the webserver is a > cron job doing a `git pull` from > https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-collection, from within > `/usr/share/nginx`. > > Tom > > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:18 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> An update on the new website infrastructure. We need to finish >> discussing the details, but OVH is happy to provide the hosting for the >> pandas infrastructure we need. >> >> My initial idea is to credit them in the page with the rest of the >> sponsors in the new website: >> https://datapythonista.github.io/pandas-web/community/team.html#institutiona... and >> also in the top right corner of the runnable code widgets (see for example >> where Binder is credited here: https://spacy.io/). >> >> What I'd like to ask is: >> >> 1. For the production website and docs (static content only, for >> the traffic we need): >> https://us.ovhcloud.com/products/public-cloud/object-storage >> 2. For our tools and processes, like the benchmarks, builds, CI >> stuff (temporary publish the docs for every PR,...): >> https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml (VPS SSD 3) >> 3. For BinderHub (runnable code in our docs, launch tutorials on >> Binder...): https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/kubernetes/ >> >> For the BinderHub, QuantStack offered help with the set up (which >> is great, because I don't know much about Binder myself, and I'm not sure >> if anyone else does or wants to take care of this). I don't think it'll be >> easy to estimate how big is the cluster we need beforehand, but I guess we >> can add things to Binder iteratively, and have more info as we grow. >> >> OVH gave us a 200 euros voucher to experiment with the different >> services. Let me know how all this sounds, and if there are no objections, >> I'll create an account and buy those services with the voucher, and I'll >> start to prototype and see how everything works. >> >> Cheers! >> >> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:06 PM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Somehow related to the work on the new website ( >>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've been >>> discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy soon >>> (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable with >>> Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a Jupyter in >>> mybinder). >>> >>> While they are very happy with the idea of having this is pandas, >>> it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is able to >>> handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working on it too >>> (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the examples). >>> >>> I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on whether >>> they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas (or may >>> be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it goes, but >>> wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is interested >>> in participating in the discussions. Of course before any decision is made >>> I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub. >>> >>> As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server for the >>> website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev docs >>> (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will generate >>> them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these two >>> servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or >>> something like that). >>> >>> Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or >>> whatever. >>> >>> Cheers! >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> Pandas-dev@python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> >
-- Andy R. Terrel, PhD President NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
_______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
--
Andy R. Terrel, PhD President NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
For what I've seen I'd say that Discourse can be configured to interact with a category like a distribution list (subscribe and have an email address to send messages there). Not sure, but for the settings I've seen should be possible. Personally I think it should replace all the existing lists: - pydata google group - pandas-dev (this) - core devs list I'm also ok to get rid of gitter once we move to discourse (also ok to keep it if people find it useful, but I rarely use it). I created an issue for this discussion some time ago: https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/issues/27903 On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 1:50 PM Tom Augspurger <tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:57 AM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
Thanks Joris for splitting the thread, sorry if I hijacked the other one.
For some discussion from numpy you can see here https://github.com/numpy/numpy.org/issues/28
Julia and Jupyter both run their own discourse but Dask, Numpy, Scipy have all told me “I don’t want to run it ourselves but be part of a larger one”
I bet we can figure out how to organize it.
I just put in an application to get pydata.discourse.org.
— Andy
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:52 AM Joris Van den Bossche < jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote:
(let's use a new thread for discourse, as it is a different discussion from the website hosting I think, regardless whether OVH might also host discourse)
I am not familiar enough myself with discourse to know whether multiple projects sharing a single discourse will become annoying. But indeed, that sounds as it needs some kind of hierarchical category / tagging.
For pandas itself: I think I quite like the idea of having a discourse, but *if* we do that, we should think about how that fits with / replaces / adds to /... some of the other communication channels (pandas-dev mailing list, pydata mailing list, github issues, ..).
IMO, we can replace the pandas-dev & pydata mailing lists with it. Possibly gitter as well.
Joris
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 13:18, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm fine with that conceptually, but I think Discourse will make things quite tricky to find things then.
We already got our discourse approved, if you want to join it an experiment with the setting. But it's the first thing I tried, and after you join a category (project), everything feels like it's in the same place (even if subcategories and tags exist). And I think we need at least a clear separation between pandas/users pandas/contributors discussions.
May be I just couldn't find the settings, let me know if you manage to get a multi-project set up that makes sense.
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Tom Augspurger < tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd prefer to join a discourse along with NumPy, Dask, and other PyData or NumFOCUS projects, rather than going out on our own.
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:47 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know much about discourse, but why do we want to self-host it? Seems like Discourse does it for free for open source projects: https://free.discourse.group/ And I don't think we want another system to maintain. Am I missing something?
I applied for https://pandas.discourse.group, so we can give it a try. We should have it approved and working in couple of days.
For what I saw, Discourse has one level of categories, so I guess we want one per project, so we can have categories for "Users", "Contributors", "Ecosystem"... or something similar. I guess if we have a single Discourse for NumFOCUS, every project will be a category, and it'll be difficult to group conversations.
If anyone already has experience with Discourse and disagrees with my guesses, please let me know.
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:32 PM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
> Sounds great to me. Just let me know where everything goes. > > NumPy wants me to help host a discourse for them, maybe OVH would be > a good place to do that as well, (although I would be more inclinded if it > was pydata and we had pandas, scipy, and numpy on it). > > -- Andy > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Tom Augspurger < > tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Sounds good w.r.t crediting OVH on those pages. >> >> For the ASV results at pandas.pydata.org/speed (which I now notice >> is currently broken for pandas), the only thing on the webserver is a >> cron job doing a `git pull` from >> https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-collection, from within >> `/usr/share/nginx`. >> >> Tom >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:18 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> An update on the new website infrastructure. We need to finish >>> discussing the details, but OVH is happy to provide the hosting for the >>> pandas infrastructure we need. >>> >>> My initial idea is to credit them in the page with the rest of the >>> sponsors in the new website: >>> https://datapythonista.github.io/pandas-web/community/team.html#institutiona... and >>> also in the top right corner of the runnable code widgets (see for example >>> where Binder is credited here: https://spacy.io/). >>> >>> What I'd like to ask is: >>> >>> 1. For the production website and docs (static content only, for >>> the traffic we need): >>> https://us.ovhcloud.com/products/public-cloud/object-storage >>> 2. For our tools and processes, like the benchmarks, builds, CI >>> stuff (temporary publish the docs for every PR,...): >>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml (VPS SSD 3) >>> 3. For BinderHub (runnable code in our docs, launch tutorials on >>> Binder...): https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/kubernetes/ >>> >>> For the BinderHub, QuantStack offered help with the set up (which >>> is great, because I don't know much about Binder myself, and I'm not sure >>> if anyone else does or wants to take care of this). I don't think it'll be >>> easy to estimate how big is the cluster we need beforehand, but I guess we >>> can add things to Binder iteratively, and have more info as we grow. >>> >>> OVH gave us a 200 euros voucher to experiment with the different >>> services. Let me know how all this sounds, and if there are no objections, >>> I'll create an account and buy those services with the voucher, and I'll >>> start to prototype and see how everything works. >>> >>> Cheers! >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:06 PM Marc Garcia < >>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Somehow related to the work on the new website ( >>>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've been >>>> discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy soon >>>> (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable with >>>> Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a Jupyter in >>>> mybinder). >>>> >>>> While they are very happy with the idea of having this is pandas, >>>> it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is able to >>>> handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working on it too >>>> (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the examples). >>>> >>>> I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on >>>> whether they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas >>>> (or may be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it >>>> goes, but wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is >>>> interested in participating in the discussions. Of course before any >>>> decision is made I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub. >>>> >>>> As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server for the >>>> website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev docs >>>> (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will generate >>>> them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these two >>>> servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or >>>> something like that). >>>> >>>> Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or >>>> whatever. >>>> >>>> Cheers! >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>> Pandas-dev@python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>> >> > > -- > Andy R. Terrel, PhD > President > NumFOCUS > andy@numfocus.org > _______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
--
Andy R. Terrel, PhD President NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
What do other people think about starting to use discourse for pandas? (and about sharing it with other projects or having our own?) -- On the existing lists: I don't think discourse would replace the core devs list (that is intentionally private). And IMO also not gitter (discourse is not a real-time chat). Joris On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:58, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
For what I've seen I'd say that Discourse can be configured to interact with a category like a distribution list (subscribe and have an email address to send messages there). Not sure, but for the settings I've seen should be possible.
Personally I think it should replace all the existing lists: - pydata google group - pandas-dev (this) - core devs list
I'm also ok to get rid of gitter once we move to discourse (also ok to keep it if people find it useful, but I rarely use it).
I created an issue for this discussion some time ago: https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/issues/27903
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 1:50 PM Tom Augspurger <tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:57 AM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
Thanks Joris for splitting the thread, sorry if I hijacked the other one.
For some discussion from numpy you can see here https://github.com/numpy/numpy.org/issues/28
Julia and Jupyter both run their own discourse but Dask, Numpy, Scipy have all told me “I don’t want to run it ourselves but be part of a larger one”
I bet we can figure out how to organize it.
I just put in an application to get pydata.discourse.org.
— Andy
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:52 AM Joris Van den Bossche < jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote:
(let's use a new thread for discourse, as it is a different discussion from the website hosting I think, regardless whether OVH might also host discourse)
I am not familiar enough myself with discourse to know whether multiple projects sharing a single discourse will become annoying. But indeed, that sounds as it needs some kind of hierarchical category / tagging.
For pandas itself: I think I quite like the idea of having a discourse, but *if* we do that, we should think about how that fits with / replaces / adds to /... some of the other communication channels (pandas-dev mailing list, pydata mailing list, github issues, ..).
IMO, we can replace the pandas-dev & pydata mailing lists with it. Possibly gitter as well.
Joris
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 13:18, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm fine with that conceptually, but I think Discourse will make things quite tricky to find things then.
We already got our discourse approved, if you want to join it an experiment with the setting. But it's the first thing I tried, and after you join a category (project), everything feels like it's in the same place (even if subcategories and tags exist). And I think we need at least a clear separation between pandas/users pandas/contributors discussions.
May be I just couldn't find the settings, let me know if you manage to get a multi-project set up that makes sense.
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Tom Augspurger < tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd prefer to join a discourse along with NumPy, Dask, and other PyData or NumFOCUS projects, rather than going out on our own.
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:47 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't know much about discourse, but why do we want to self-host > it? Seems like Discourse does it for free for open source projects: > https://free.discourse.group/ And I don't think we want another > system to maintain. Am I missing something? > > I applied for https://pandas.discourse.group, so we can give it a > try. We should have it approved and working in couple of days. > > For what I saw, Discourse has one level of categories, so I guess we > want one per project, so we can have categories for "Users", > "Contributors", "Ecosystem"... or something similar. I guess if we have a > single Discourse for NumFOCUS, every project will be a category, and it'll > be difficult to group conversations. > > If anyone already has experience with Discourse and disagrees with > my guesses, please let me know. > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:32 PM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> > wrote: > >> Sounds great to me. Just let me know where everything goes. >> >> NumPy wants me to help host a discourse for them, maybe OVH would >> be a good place to do that as well, (although I would be more inclinded if >> it was pydata and we had pandas, scipy, and numpy on it). >> >> -- Andy >> >> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Tom Augspurger < >> tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Sounds good w.r.t crediting OVH on those pages. >>> >>> For the ASV results at pandas.pydata.org/speed (which I now >>> notice is currently broken for pandas), the only thing on the webserver is a >>> cron job doing a `git pull` from >>> https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-collection, from within >>> `/usr/share/nginx`. >>> >>> Tom >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:18 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> An update on the new website infrastructure. We need to finish >>>> discussing the details, but OVH is happy to provide the hosting for the >>>> pandas infrastructure we need. >>>> >>>> My initial idea is to credit them in the page with the rest of >>>> the sponsors in the new website: >>>> https://datapythonista.github.io/pandas-web/community/team.html#institutiona... and >>>> also in the top right corner of the runnable code widgets (see for example >>>> where Binder is credited here: https://spacy.io/). >>>> >>>> What I'd like to ask is: >>>> >>>> 1. For the production website and docs (static content only, for >>>> the traffic we need): >>>> https://us.ovhcloud.com/products/public-cloud/object-storage >>>> 2. For our tools and processes, like the benchmarks, builds, CI >>>> stuff (temporary publish the docs for every PR,...): >>>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml (VPS SSD 3) >>>> 3. For BinderHub (runnable code in our docs, launch tutorials on >>>> Binder...): https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/kubernetes/ >>>> >>>> For the BinderHub, QuantStack offered help with the set up (which >>>> is great, because I don't know much about Binder myself, and I'm not sure >>>> if anyone else does or wants to take care of this). I don't think it'll be >>>> easy to estimate how big is the cluster we need beforehand, but I guess we >>>> can add things to Binder iteratively, and have more info as we grow. >>>> >>>> OVH gave us a 200 euros voucher to experiment with the different >>>> services. Let me know how all this sounds, and if there are no objections, >>>> I'll create an account and buy those services with the voucher, and I'll >>>> start to prototype and see how everything works. >>>> >>>> Cheers! >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:06 PM Marc Garcia < >>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Somehow related to the work on the new website ( >>>>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've been >>>>> discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy soon >>>>> (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable with >>>>> Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a Jupyter in >>>>> mybinder). >>>>> >>>>> While they are very happy with the idea of having this is >>>>> pandas, it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is >>>>> able to handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working >>>>> on it too (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the >>>>> examples). >>>>> >>>>> I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on >>>>> whether they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas >>>>> (or may be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it >>>>> goes, but wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is >>>>> interested in participating in the discussions. Of course before any >>>>> decision is made I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub. >>>>> >>>>> As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server for >>>>> the website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev docs >>>>> (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will generate >>>>> them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these two >>>>> servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or >>>>> something like that). >>>>> >>>>> Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or >>>>> whatever. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers! >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>>> Pandas-dev@python.org >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> Andy R. Terrel, PhD >> President >> NumFOCUS >> andy@numfocus.org >> > _______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
--
Andy R. Terrel, PhD President NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
I personally am not a fan of having Discourse, where will all the content be 10 years from now? Gitter is already an information sinkhole, I'm not sure how Discourse compares. GitHub is soo large that people will find a way to save the content if/when it disappears, and StackOverflow the same. Discourse, GitHub and StackOverflow may not target the same audience, and I'm a bit hesitant to embrace Discourse, but I also don't know of a better scenario. Short version: not sure, I feel uneasy about Discourse, but happy to be proven wrong. Op wo 25 sep. 2019 om 13:39 schreef Joris Van den Bossche < jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com>:
What do other people think about starting to use discourse for pandas? (and about sharing it with other projects or having our own?)
--
On the existing lists: I don't think discourse would replace the core devs list (that is intentionally private). And IMO also not gitter (discourse is not a real-time chat).
Joris
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:58, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
For what I've seen I'd say that Discourse can be configured to interact with a category like a distribution list (subscribe and have an email address to send messages there). Not sure, but for the settings I've seen should be possible.
Personally I think it should replace all the existing lists: - pydata google group - pandas-dev (this) - core devs list
I'm also ok to get rid of gitter once we move to discourse (also ok to keep it if people find it useful, but I rarely use it).
I created an issue for this discussion some time ago: https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/issues/27903
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 1:50 PM Tom Augspurger < tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:57 AM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
Thanks Joris for splitting the thread, sorry if I hijacked the other one.
For some discussion from numpy you can see here https://github.com/numpy/numpy.org/issues/28
Julia and Jupyter both run their own discourse but Dask, Numpy, Scipy have all told me “I don’t want to run it ourselves but be part of a larger one”
I bet we can figure out how to organize it.
I just put in an application to get pydata.discourse.org.
— Andy
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:52 AM Joris Van den Bossche < jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote:
(let's use a new thread for discourse, as it is a different discussion from the website hosting I think, regardless whether OVH might also host discourse)
I am not familiar enough myself with discourse to know whether multiple projects sharing a single discourse will become annoying. But indeed, that sounds as it needs some kind of hierarchical category / tagging.
For pandas itself: I think I quite like the idea of having a discourse, but *if* we do that, we should think about how that fits with / replaces / adds to /... some of the other communication channels (pandas-dev mailing list, pydata mailing list, github issues, ..).
IMO, we can replace the pandas-dev & pydata mailing lists with it. Possibly gitter as well.
Joris
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 13:18, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm fine with that conceptually, but I think Discourse will make things quite tricky to find things then.
We already got our discourse approved, if you want to join it an experiment with the setting. But it's the first thing I tried, and after you join a category (project), everything feels like it's in the same place (even if subcategories and tags exist). And I think we need at least a clear separation between pandas/users pandas/contributors discussions.
May be I just couldn't find the settings, let me know if you manage to get a multi-project set up that makes sense.
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Tom Augspurger < tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd prefer to join a discourse along with NumPy, Dask, and other > PyData or NumFOCUS projects, rather than going out on our own. > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:47 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> I don't know much about discourse, but why do we want to self-host >> it? Seems like Discourse does it for free for open source projects: >> https://free.discourse.group/ And I don't think we want another >> system to maintain. Am I missing something? >> >> I applied for https://pandas.discourse.group, so we can give it a >> try. We should have it approved and working in couple of days. >> >> For what I saw, Discourse has one level of categories, so I guess >> we want one per project, so we can have categories for "Users", >> "Contributors", "Ecosystem"... or something similar. I guess if we have a >> single Discourse for NumFOCUS, every project will be a category, and it'll >> be difficult to group conversations. >> >> If anyone already has experience with Discourse and disagrees with >> my guesses, please let me know. >> >> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:32 PM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Sounds great to me. Just let me know where everything goes. >>> >>> NumPy wants me to help host a discourse for them, maybe OVH would >>> be a good place to do that as well, (although I would be more inclinded if >>> it was pydata and we had pandas, scipy, and numpy on it). >>> >>> -- Andy >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Tom Augspurger < >>> tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Sounds good w.r.t crediting OVH on those pages. >>>> >>>> For the ASV results at pandas.pydata.org/speed (which I now >>>> notice is currently broken for pandas), the only thing on the webserver is a >>>> cron job doing a `git pull` from >>>> https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-collection, from within >>>> `/usr/share/nginx`. >>>> >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:18 AM Marc Garcia < >>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> An update on the new website infrastructure. We need to finish >>>>> discussing the details, but OVH is happy to provide the hosting for the >>>>> pandas infrastructure we need. >>>>> >>>>> My initial idea is to credit them in the page with the rest of >>>>> the sponsors in the new website: >>>>> https://datapythonista.github.io/pandas-web/community/team.html#institutiona... and >>>>> also in the top right corner of the runnable code widgets (see for example >>>>> where Binder is credited here: https://spacy.io/). >>>>> >>>>> What I'd like to ask is: >>>>> >>>>> 1. For the production website and docs (static content only, for >>>>> the traffic we need): >>>>> https://us.ovhcloud.com/products/public-cloud/object-storage >>>>> 2. For our tools and processes, like the benchmarks, builds, CI >>>>> stuff (temporary publish the docs for every PR,...): >>>>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml (VPS SSD 3) >>>>> 3. For BinderHub (runnable code in our docs, launch tutorials on >>>>> Binder...): https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/kubernetes/ >>>>> >>>>> For the BinderHub, QuantStack offered help with the set up >>>>> (which is great, because I don't know much about Binder myself, and I'm not >>>>> sure if anyone else does or wants to take care of this). I don't think >>>>> it'll be easy to estimate how big is the cluster we need beforehand, but I >>>>> guess we can add things to Binder iteratively, and have more info as we >>>>> grow. >>>>> >>>>> OVH gave us a 200 euros voucher to experiment with the different >>>>> services. Let me know how all this sounds, and if there are no objections, >>>>> I'll create an account and buy those services with the voucher, and I'll >>>>> start to prototype and see how everything works. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers! >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:06 PM Marc Garcia < >>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Somehow related to the work on the new website ( >>>>>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've been >>>>>> discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy soon >>>>>> (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable with >>>>>> Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a Jupyter in >>>>>> mybinder). >>>>>> >>>>>> While they are very happy with the idea of having this is >>>>>> pandas, it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is >>>>>> able to handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working >>>>>> on it too (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the >>>>>> examples). >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on >>>>>> whether they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas >>>>>> (or may be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it >>>>>> goes, but wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is >>>>>> interested in participating in the discussions. Of course before any >>>>>> decision is made I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub. >>>>>> >>>>>> As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server for >>>>>> the website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev docs >>>>>> (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will generate >>>>>> them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these two >>>>>> servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or >>>>>> something like that). >>>>>> >>>>>> Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or >>>>>> whatever. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>>>> Pandas-dev@python.org >>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD >>> President >>> NumFOCUS >>> andy@numfocus.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
--
Andy R. Terrel, PhD President NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
_______________________________________________
Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
Discourse has private categories, we already have a private "Maintainers" one, that only admins can see and use. And there are other permissions levels that can be used. For example, we can have a private category for the memebers of the code of conduct committee... I just need to check if we can associate email addresses to those groups, so when someone emails to coc@pandas.io the messages are posted in that private group. But if we can set up that as we need, I think we should be able to replace all those and centralize everything in Discourse. I'm skeptical on being able to set up a global Discourse for all the ecosystem, where things are easy to find, based on how Discourse works and the tests I did. I'd move forward with our own for now if nobody is able to set that up. Andy, I got the pandas account approved in minutes. I see that we can have a custom domain, so you can use the pandas and see if we can manage to have multiple projects in a way we like, and if we do we just change the domain to discuss.pydata.org (or whatever). You're already an admin, feel free to experiment and change the set up as you need. Maarten, not sure I understand your point. Not a fan of Discourse so far, but I think having the user and the devs discussions in a single place makes it easier to find the information, and I think Discourse interface also makes it easier to find compared to mailman, or google groups. Regardless of gitter (there are no important discussions or decision making there I think), would you prefer to stay with mailman and google groups over Discourse? Or what you think would be the ideal or best option? Thanks! On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:39 AM Joris Van den Bossche < jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote:
What do other people think about starting to use discourse for pandas? (and about sharing it with other projects or having our own?)
--
On the existing lists: I don't think discourse would replace the core devs list (that is intentionally private). And IMO also not gitter (discourse is not a real-time chat).
Joris
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:58, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
For what I've seen I'd say that Discourse can be configured to interact with a category like a distribution list (subscribe and have an email address to send messages there). Not sure, but for the settings I've seen should be possible.
Personally I think it should replace all the existing lists: - pydata google group - pandas-dev (this) - core devs list
I'm also ok to get rid of gitter once we move to discourse (also ok to keep it if people find it useful, but I rarely use it).
I created an issue for this discussion some time ago: https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/issues/27903
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 1:50 PM Tom Augspurger < tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:57 AM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
Thanks Joris for splitting the thread, sorry if I hijacked the other one.
For some discussion from numpy you can see here https://github.com/numpy/numpy.org/issues/28
Julia and Jupyter both run their own discourse but Dask, Numpy, Scipy have all told me “I don’t want to run it ourselves but be part of a larger one”
I bet we can figure out how to organize it.
I just put in an application to get pydata.discourse.org.
— Andy
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:52 AM Joris Van den Bossche < jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote:
(let's use a new thread for discourse, as it is a different discussion from the website hosting I think, regardless whether OVH might also host discourse)
I am not familiar enough myself with discourse to know whether multiple projects sharing a single discourse will become annoying. But indeed, that sounds as it needs some kind of hierarchical category / tagging.
For pandas itself: I think I quite like the idea of having a discourse, but *if* we do that, we should think about how that fits with / replaces / adds to /... some of the other communication channels (pandas-dev mailing list, pydata mailing list, github issues, ..).
IMO, we can replace the pandas-dev & pydata mailing lists with it. Possibly gitter as well.
Joris
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 13:18, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm fine with that conceptually, but I think Discourse will make things quite tricky to find things then.
We already got our discourse approved, if you want to join it an experiment with the setting. But it's the first thing I tried, and after you join a category (project), everything feels like it's in the same place (even if subcategories and tags exist). And I think we need at least a clear separation between pandas/users pandas/contributors discussions.
May be I just couldn't find the settings, let me know if you manage to get a multi-project set up that makes sense.
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Tom Augspurger < tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd prefer to join a discourse along with NumPy, Dask, and other > PyData or NumFOCUS projects, rather than going out on our own. > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:47 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> I don't know much about discourse, but why do we want to self-host >> it? Seems like Discourse does it for free for open source projects: >> https://free.discourse.group/ And I don't think we want another >> system to maintain. Am I missing something? >> >> I applied for https://pandas.discourse.group, so we can give it a >> try. We should have it approved and working in couple of days. >> >> For what I saw, Discourse has one level of categories, so I guess >> we want one per project, so we can have categories for "Users", >> "Contributors", "Ecosystem"... or something similar. I guess if we have a >> single Discourse for NumFOCUS, every project will be a category, and it'll >> be difficult to group conversations. >> >> If anyone already has experience with Discourse and disagrees with >> my guesses, please let me know. >> >> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:32 PM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Sounds great to me. Just let me know where everything goes. >>> >>> NumPy wants me to help host a discourse for them, maybe OVH would >>> be a good place to do that as well, (although I would be more inclinded if >>> it was pydata and we had pandas, scipy, and numpy on it). >>> >>> -- Andy >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Tom Augspurger < >>> tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Sounds good w.r.t crediting OVH on those pages. >>>> >>>> For the ASV results at pandas.pydata.org/speed (which I now >>>> notice is currently broken for pandas), the only thing on the webserver is a >>>> cron job doing a `git pull` from >>>> https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-collection, from within >>>> `/usr/share/nginx`. >>>> >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:18 AM Marc Garcia < >>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> An update on the new website infrastructure. We need to finish >>>>> discussing the details, but OVH is happy to provide the hosting for the >>>>> pandas infrastructure we need. >>>>> >>>>> My initial idea is to credit them in the page with the rest of >>>>> the sponsors in the new website: >>>>> https://datapythonista.github.io/pandas-web/community/team.html#institutiona... and >>>>> also in the top right corner of the runnable code widgets (see for example >>>>> where Binder is credited here: https://spacy.io/). >>>>> >>>>> What I'd like to ask is: >>>>> >>>>> 1. For the production website and docs (static content only, for >>>>> the traffic we need): >>>>> https://us.ovhcloud.com/products/public-cloud/object-storage >>>>> 2. For our tools and processes, like the benchmarks, builds, CI >>>>> stuff (temporary publish the docs for every PR,...): >>>>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml (VPS SSD 3) >>>>> 3. For BinderHub (runnable code in our docs, launch tutorials on >>>>> Binder...): https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/kubernetes/ >>>>> >>>>> For the BinderHub, QuantStack offered help with the set up >>>>> (which is great, because I don't know much about Binder myself, and I'm not >>>>> sure if anyone else does or wants to take care of this). I don't think >>>>> it'll be easy to estimate how big is the cluster we need beforehand, but I >>>>> guess we can add things to Binder iteratively, and have more info as we >>>>> grow. >>>>> >>>>> OVH gave us a 200 euros voucher to experiment with the different >>>>> services. Let me know how all this sounds, and if there are no objections, >>>>> I'll create an account and buy those services with the voucher, and I'll >>>>> start to prototype and see how everything works. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers! >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:06 PM Marc Garcia < >>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Somehow related to the work on the new website ( >>>>>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've been >>>>>> discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy soon >>>>>> (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable with >>>>>> Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a Jupyter in >>>>>> mybinder). >>>>>> >>>>>> While they are very happy with the idea of having this is >>>>>> pandas, it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is >>>>>> able to handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working >>>>>> on it too (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the >>>>>> examples). >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on >>>>>> whether they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas >>>>>> (or may be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it >>>>>> goes, but wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is >>>>>> interested in participating in the discussions. Of course before any >>>>>> decision is made I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub. >>>>>> >>>>>> As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server for >>>>>> the website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev docs >>>>>> (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will generate >>>>>> them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these two >>>>>> servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or >>>>>> something like that). >>>>>> >>>>>> Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or >>>>>> whatever. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>>>> Pandas-dev@python.org >>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD >>> President >>> NumFOCUS >>> andy@numfocus.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
--
Andy R. Terrel, PhD President NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
_______________________________________________
Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
Andy, could you experiment on having multiple projects in a single discourse? I saw the PyData one was activated some time ago. If it doesn't look feasible as I think, let me know so I'll move forward discussing what to have in the pandas one. Cheers! On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:03 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
Discourse has private categories, we already have a private "Maintainers" one, that only admins can see and use. And there are other permissions levels that can be used. For example, we can have a private category for the memebers of the code of conduct committee... I just need to check if we can associate email addresses to those groups, so when someone emails to coc@pandas.io the messages are posted in that private group. But if we can set up that as we need, I think we should be able to replace all those and centralize everything in Discourse.
I'm skeptical on being able to set up a global Discourse for all the ecosystem, where things are easy to find, based on how Discourse works and the tests I did. I'd move forward with our own for now if nobody is able to set that up.
Andy, I got the pandas account approved in minutes. I see that we can have a custom domain, so you can use the pandas and see if we can manage to have multiple projects in a way we like, and if we do we just change the domain to discuss.pydata.org (or whatever). You're already an admin, feel free to experiment and change the set up as you need.
Maarten, not sure I understand your point. Not a fan of Discourse so far, but I think having the user and the devs discussions in a single place makes it easier to find the information, and I think Discourse interface also makes it easier to find compared to mailman, or google groups. Regardless of gitter (there are no important discussions or decision making there I think), would you prefer to stay with mailman and google groups over Discourse? Or what you think would be the ideal or best option?
Thanks!
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:39 AM Joris Van den Bossche < jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote:
What do other people think about starting to use discourse for pandas? (and about sharing it with other projects or having our own?)
--
On the existing lists: I don't think discourse would replace the core devs list (that is intentionally private). And IMO also not gitter (discourse is not a real-time chat).
Joris
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:58, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
For what I've seen I'd say that Discourse can be configured to interact with a category like a distribution list (subscribe and have an email address to send messages there). Not sure, but for the settings I've seen should be possible.
Personally I think it should replace all the existing lists: - pydata google group - pandas-dev (this) - core devs list
I'm also ok to get rid of gitter once we move to discourse (also ok to keep it if people find it useful, but I rarely use it).
I created an issue for this discussion some time ago: https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/issues/27903
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 1:50 PM Tom Augspurger < tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:57 AM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
Thanks Joris for splitting the thread, sorry if I hijacked the other one.
For some discussion from numpy you can see here https://github.com/numpy/numpy.org/issues/28
Julia and Jupyter both run their own discourse but Dask, Numpy, Scipy have all told me “I don’t want to run it ourselves but be part of a larger one”
I bet we can figure out how to organize it.
I just put in an application to get pydata.discourse.org.
— Andy
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:52 AM Joris Van den Bossche < jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote:
(let's use a new thread for discourse, as it is a different discussion from the website hosting I think, regardless whether OVH might also host discourse)
I am not familiar enough myself with discourse to know whether multiple projects sharing a single discourse will become annoying. But indeed, that sounds as it needs some kind of hierarchical category / tagging.
For pandas itself: I think I quite like the idea of having a discourse, but *if* we do that, we should think about how that fits with / replaces / adds to /... some of the other communication channels (pandas-dev mailing list, pydata mailing list, github issues, ..).
IMO, we can replace the pandas-dev & pydata mailing lists with it. Possibly gitter as well.
Joris
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 13:18, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm fine with that conceptually, but I think Discourse will make > things quite tricky to find things then. > > We already got our discourse approved, if you want to join it an > experiment with the setting. But it's the first thing I tried, and after > you join a category (project), everything feels like it's in the same place > (even if subcategories and tags exist). And I think we need at least a > clear separation between pandas/users pandas/contributors discussions. > > May be I just couldn't find the settings, let me know if you manage > to get a multi-project set up that makes sense. > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Tom Augspurger < > tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I'd prefer to join a discourse along with NumPy, Dask, and other >> PyData or NumFOCUS projects, rather than going out on our own. >> >> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:47 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> I don't know much about discourse, but why do we want to self-host >>> it? Seems like Discourse does it for free for open source projects: >>> https://free.discourse.group/ And I don't think we want another >>> system to maintain. Am I missing something? >>> >>> I applied for https://pandas.discourse.group, so we can give it a >>> try. We should have it approved and working in couple of days. >>> >>> For what I saw, Discourse has one level of categories, so I guess >>> we want one per project, so we can have categories for "Users", >>> "Contributors", "Ecosystem"... or something similar. I guess if we have a >>> single Discourse for NumFOCUS, every project will be a category, and it'll >>> be difficult to group conversations. >>> >>> If anyone already has experience with Discourse and disagrees with >>> my guesses, please let me know. >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:32 PM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Sounds great to me. Just let me know where everything goes. >>>> >>>> NumPy wants me to help host a discourse for them, maybe OVH would >>>> be a good place to do that as well, (although I would be more inclinded if >>>> it was pydata and we had pandas, scipy, and numpy on it). >>>> >>>> -- Andy >>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Tom Augspurger < >>>> tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sounds good w.r.t crediting OVH on those pages. >>>>> >>>>> For the ASV results at pandas.pydata.org/speed (which I now >>>>> notice is currently broken for pandas), the only thing on the webserver is a >>>>> cron job doing a `git pull` from >>>>> https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-collection, from within >>>>> `/usr/share/nginx`. >>>>> >>>>> Tom >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:18 AM Marc Garcia < >>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> An update on the new website infrastructure. We need to finish >>>>>> discussing the details, but OVH is happy to provide the hosting for the >>>>>> pandas infrastructure we need. >>>>>> >>>>>> My initial idea is to credit them in the page with the rest of >>>>>> the sponsors in the new website: >>>>>> https://datapythonista.github.io/pandas-web/community/team.html#institutiona... and >>>>>> also in the top right corner of the runnable code widgets (see for example >>>>>> where Binder is credited here: https://spacy.io/). >>>>>> >>>>>> What I'd like to ask is: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. For the production website and docs (static content only, >>>>>> for the traffic we need): >>>>>> https://us.ovhcloud.com/products/public-cloud/object-storage >>>>>> 2. For our tools and processes, like the benchmarks, builds, CI >>>>>> stuff (temporary publish the docs for every PR,...): >>>>>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml (VPS SSD 3) >>>>>> 3. For BinderHub (runnable code in our docs, launch tutorials >>>>>> on Binder...): https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/kubernetes/ >>>>>> >>>>>> For the BinderHub, QuantStack offered help with the set up >>>>>> (which is great, because I don't know much about Binder myself, and I'm not >>>>>> sure if anyone else does or wants to take care of this). I don't think >>>>>> it'll be easy to estimate how big is the cluster we need beforehand, but I >>>>>> guess we can add things to Binder iteratively, and have more info as we >>>>>> grow. >>>>>> >>>>>> OVH gave us a 200 euros voucher to experiment with the >>>>>> different services. Let me know how all this sounds, and if there are no >>>>>> objections, I'll create an account and buy those services with the voucher, >>>>>> and I'll start to prototype and see how everything works. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:06 PM Marc Garcia < >>>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Somehow related to the work on the new website ( >>>>>>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've been >>>>>>> discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy soon >>>>>>> (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable with >>>>>>> Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a Jupyter in >>>>>>> mybinder). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> While they are very happy with the idea of having this is >>>>>>> pandas, it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is >>>>>>> able to handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working >>>>>>> on it too (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the >>>>>>> examples). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on >>>>>>> whether they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas >>>>>>> (or may be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it >>>>>>> goes, but wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is >>>>>>> interested in participating in the discussions. Of course before any >>>>>>> decision is made I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server for >>>>>>> the website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev docs >>>>>>> (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will generate >>>>>>> them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these two >>>>>>> servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or >>>>>>> something like that). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or >>>>>>> whatever. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>>>>> Pandas-dev@python.org >>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD >>>> President >>>> NumFOCUS >>>> andy@numfocus.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ > Pandas-dev mailing list > Pandas-dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > --
Andy R. Terrel, PhD President NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
_______________________________________________
Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
Sorry I've been traveling. I have https://pydata.discourse. <http://pydata.discourse.org>group set up. I can send out invites. I guess as you have pointed out, we can set up categories for each project, e.g. dask-users, pandas-users, pandas-dev, but maybe not exactly what you want. Happy to invite anyone to the discourse instance before we open it up to the wild -- Andy On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 9:24 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
Andy, could you experiment on having multiple projects in a single discourse? I saw the PyData one was activated some time ago.
If it doesn't look feasible as I think, let me know so I'll move forward discussing what to have in the pandas one.
Cheers!
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:03 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
Discourse has private categories, we already have a private "Maintainers" one, that only admins can see and use. And there are other permissions levels that can be used. For example, we can have a private category for the memebers of the code of conduct committee... I just need to check if we can associate email addresses to those groups, so when someone emails to coc@pandas.io the messages are posted in that private group. But if we can set up that as we need, I think we should be able to replace all those and centralize everything in Discourse.
I'm skeptical on being able to set up a global Discourse for all the ecosystem, where things are easy to find, based on how Discourse works and the tests I did. I'd move forward with our own for now if nobody is able to set that up.
Andy, I got the pandas account approved in minutes. I see that we can have a custom domain, so you can use the pandas and see if we can manage to have multiple projects in a way we like, and if we do we just change the domain to discuss.pydata.org (or whatever). You're already an admin, feel free to experiment and change the set up as you need.
Maarten, not sure I understand your point. Not a fan of Discourse so far, but I think having the user and the devs discussions in a single place makes it easier to find the information, and I think Discourse interface also makes it easier to find compared to mailman, or google groups. Regardless of gitter (there are no important discussions or decision making there I think), would you prefer to stay with mailman and google groups over Discourse? Or what you think would be the ideal or best option?
Thanks!
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:39 AM Joris Van den Bossche < jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote:
What do other people think about starting to use discourse for pandas? (and about sharing it with other projects or having our own?)
--
On the existing lists: I don't think discourse would replace the core devs list (that is intentionally private). And IMO also not gitter (discourse is not a real-time chat).
Joris
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:58, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
For what I've seen I'd say that Discourse can be configured to interact with a category like a distribution list (subscribe and have an email address to send messages there). Not sure, but for the settings I've seen should be possible.
Personally I think it should replace all the existing lists: - pydata google group - pandas-dev (this) - core devs list
I'm also ok to get rid of gitter once we move to discourse (also ok to keep it if people find it useful, but I rarely use it).
I created an issue for this discussion some time ago: https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/issues/27903
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 1:50 PM Tom Augspurger < tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:57 AM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
Thanks Joris for splitting the thread, sorry if I hijacked the other one.
For some discussion from numpy you can see here https://github.com/numpy/numpy.org/issues/28
Julia and Jupyter both run their own discourse but Dask, Numpy, Scipy have all told me “I don’t want to run it ourselves but be part of a larger one”
I bet we can figure out how to organize it.
I just put in an application to get pydata.discourse.org.
— Andy
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:52 AM Joris Van den Bossche < jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote:
> (let's use a new thread for discourse, as it is a different > discussion from the website hosting I think, regardless whether OVH might > also host discourse) > > I am not familiar enough myself with discourse to know whether > multiple projects sharing a single discourse will become annoying. But > indeed, that sounds as it needs some kind of hierarchical category / > tagging. > > For pandas itself: I think I quite like the idea of having a > discourse, but *if* we do that, we should think about how that fits > with / replaces / adds to /... some of the other communication channels > (pandas-dev mailing list, pydata mailing list, github issues, ..). >
IMO, we can replace the pandas-dev & pydata mailing lists with it. Possibly gitter as well.
Joris > > On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 13:18, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> I'm fine with that conceptually, but I think Discourse will make >> things quite tricky to find things then. >> >> We already got our discourse approved, if you want to join it an >> experiment with the setting. But it's the first thing I tried, and after >> you join a category (project), everything feels like it's in the same place >> (even if subcategories and tags exist). And I think we need at least a >> clear separation between pandas/users pandas/contributors discussions. >> >> May be I just couldn't find the settings, let me know if you manage >> to get a multi-project set up that makes sense. >> >> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Tom Augspurger < >> tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I'd prefer to join a discourse along with NumPy, Dask, and other >>> PyData or NumFOCUS projects, rather than going out on our own. >>> >>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:47 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I don't know much about discourse, but why do we want to >>>> self-host it? Seems like Discourse does it for free for open source >>>> projects: https://free.discourse.group/ And I don't think we >>>> want another system to maintain. Am I missing something? >>>> >>>> I applied for https://pandas.discourse.group, so we can give it >>>> a try. We should have it approved and working in couple of days. >>>> >>>> For what I saw, Discourse has one level of categories, so I guess >>>> we want one per project, so we can have categories for "Users", >>>> "Contributors", "Ecosystem"... or something similar. I guess if we have a >>>> single Discourse for NumFOCUS, every project will be a category, and it'll >>>> be difficult to group conversations. >>>> >>>> If anyone already has experience with Discourse and disagrees >>>> with my guesses, please let me know. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:32 PM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sounds great to me. Just let me know where everything goes. >>>>> >>>>> NumPy wants me to help host a discourse for them, maybe OVH >>>>> would be a good place to do that as well, (although I would be more >>>>> inclinded if it was pydata and we had pandas, scipy, and numpy on it). >>>>> >>>>> -- Andy >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Tom Augspurger < >>>>> tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Sounds good w.r.t crediting OVH on those pages. >>>>>> >>>>>> For the ASV results at pandas.pydata.org/speed (which I now >>>>>> notice is currently broken for pandas), the only thing on the webserver is a >>>>>> cron job doing a `git pull` from >>>>>> https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-collection, from within >>>>>> `/usr/share/nginx`. >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:18 AM Marc Garcia < >>>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> An update on the new website infrastructure. We need to finish >>>>>>> discussing the details, but OVH is happy to provide the hosting for the >>>>>>> pandas infrastructure we need. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My initial idea is to credit them in the page with the rest of >>>>>>> the sponsors in the new website: >>>>>>> https://datapythonista.github.io/pandas-web/community/team.html#institutiona... and >>>>>>> also in the top right corner of the runnable code widgets (see for example >>>>>>> where Binder is credited here: https://spacy.io/). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What I'd like to ask is: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. For the production website and docs (static content only, >>>>>>> for the traffic we need): >>>>>>> https://us.ovhcloud.com/products/public-cloud/object-storage >>>>>>> 2. For our tools and processes, like the benchmarks, builds, >>>>>>> CI stuff (temporary publish the docs for every PR,...): >>>>>>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml (VPS SSD 3) >>>>>>> 3. For BinderHub (runnable code in our docs, launch tutorials >>>>>>> on Binder...): https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/kubernetes/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For the BinderHub, QuantStack offered help with the set up >>>>>>> (which is great, because I don't know much about Binder myself, and I'm not >>>>>>> sure if anyone else does or wants to take care of this). I don't think >>>>>>> it'll be easy to estimate how big is the cluster we need beforehand, but I >>>>>>> guess we can add things to Binder iteratively, and have more info as we >>>>>>> grow. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> OVH gave us a 200 euros voucher to experiment with the >>>>>>> different services. Let me know how all this sounds, and if there are no >>>>>>> objections, I'll create an account and buy those services with the voucher, >>>>>>> and I'll start to prototype and see how everything works. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:06 PM Marc Garcia < >>>>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Somehow related to the work on the new website ( >>>>>>>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've been >>>>>>>> discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy soon >>>>>>>> (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable with >>>>>>>> Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a Jupyter in >>>>>>>> mybinder). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> While they are very happy with the idea of having this is >>>>>>>> pandas, it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is >>>>>>>> able to handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working >>>>>>>> on it too (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the >>>>>>>> examples). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on >>>>>>>> whether they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas >>>>>>>> (or may be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it >>>>>>>> goes, but wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is >>>>>>>> interested in participating in the discussions. Of course before any >>>>>>>> decision is made I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server for >>>>>>>> the website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev docs >>>>>>>> (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will generate >>>>>>>> them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these two >>>>>>>> servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or >>>>>>>> something like that). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or >>>>>>>> whatever. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>>>>>> Pandas-dev@python.org >>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD >>>>> President >>>>> NumFOCUS >>>>> andy@numfocus.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> Pandas-dev@python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> > -- Andy R. Terrel, PhD President NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
_______________________________________________
Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
_______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
-- Andy R. Terrel, PhD President, NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
I personally don't see the value of having a common discourse for all the projects, where the top-level is a list of possibly 100 items, where pandas has few groups lost there, and not more structure than that, as opposed to have a discourse per project. Single-login is the only advantage I can see, and this can also be achieved with separate groups for what I've seen. Tom, Joris, I think you were the ones who preferred having a common discourse. Does it still sounds as the best option, given the limitations? On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 11:51 AM Andy Ray Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
Sorry I've been traveling.
I have https://pydata.discourse. <http://pydata.discourse.org>group set up. I can send out invites.
I guess as you have pointed out, we can set up categories for each project, e.g. dask-users, pandas-users, pandas-dev, but maybe not exactly what you want.
Happy to invite anyone to the discourse instance before we open it up to the wild
-- Andy
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 9:24 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
Andy, could you experiment on having multiple projects in a single discourse? I saw the PyData one was activated some time ago.
If it doesn't look feasible as I think, let me know so I'll move forward discussing what to have in the pandas one.
Cheers!
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:03 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
Discourse has private categories, we already have a private "Maintainers" one, that only admins can see and use. And there are other permissions levels that can be used. For example, we can have a private category for the memebers of the code of conduct committee... I just need to check if we can associate email addresses to those groups, so when someone emails to coc@pandas.io the messages are posted in that private group. But if we can set up that as we need, I think we should be able to replace all those and centralize everything in Discourse.
I'm skeptical on being able to set up a global Discourse for all the ecosystem, where things are easy to find, based on how Discourse works and the tests I did. I'd move forward with our own for now if nobody is able to set that up.
Andy, I got the pandas account approved in minutes. I see that we can have a custom domain, so you can use the pandas and see if we can manage to have multiple projects in a way we like, and if we do we just change the domain to discuss.pydata.org (or whatever). You're already an admin, feel free to experiment and change the set up as you need.
Maarten, not sure I understand your point. Not a fan of Discourse so far, but I think having the user and the devs discussions in a single place makes it easier to find the information, and I think Discourse interface also makes it easier to find compared to mailman, or google groups. Regardless of gitter (there are no important discussions or decision making there I think), would you prefer to stay with mailman and google groups over Discourse? Or what you think would be the ideal or best option?
Thanks!
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:39 AM Joris Van den Bossche < jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote:
What do other people think about starting to use discourse for pandas? (and about sharing it with other projects or having our own?)
--
On the existing lists: I don't think discourse would replace the core devs list (that is intentionally private). And IMO also not gitter (discourse is not a real-time chat).
Joris
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:58, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
For what I've seen I'd say that Discourse can be configured to interact with a category like a distribution list (subscribe and have an email address to send messages there). Not sure, but for the settings I've seen should be possible.
Personally I think it should replace all the existing lists: - pydata google group - pandas-dev (this) - core devs list
I'm also ok to get rid of gitter once we move to discourse (also ok to keep it if people find it useful, but I rarely use it).
I created an issue for this discussion some time ago: https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/issues/27903
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 1:50 PM Tom Augspurger < tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:57 AM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
> Thanks Joris for splitting the thread, sorry if I hijacked the other > one. > > For some discussion from numpy you can see here > https://github.com/numpy/numpy.org/issues/28 > > Julia and Jupyter both run their own discourse but Dask, Numpy, > Scipy have all told me “I don’t want to run it ourselves but be part of a > larger one” > > I bet we can figure out how to organize it. > > I just put in an application to get pydata.discourse.org. > > — Andy > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:52 AM Joris Van den Bossche < > jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote: > >> (let's use a new thread for discourse, as it is a different >> discussion from the website hosting I think, regardless whether OVH might >> also host discourse) >> >> I am not familiar enough myself with discourse to know whether >> multiple projects sharing a single discourse will become annoying. But >> indeed, that sounds as it needs some kind of hierarchical category / >> tagging. >> >> For pandas itself: I think I quite like the idea of having a >> discourse, but *if* we do that, we should think about how that >> fits with / replaces / adds to /... some of the other communication >> channels (pandas-dev mailing list, pydata mailing list, github issues, ..). >> > IMO, we can replace the pandas-dev & pydata mailing lists with it. Possibly gitter as well.
> Joris >> >> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 13:18, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> I'm fine with that conceptually, but I think Discourse will make >>> things quite tricky to find things then. >>> >>> We already got our discourse approved, if you want to join it an >>> experiment with the setting. But it's the first thing I tried, and after >>> you join a category (project), everything feels like it's in the same place >>> (even if subcategories and tags exist). And I think we need at least a >>> clear separation between pandas/users pandas/contributors discussions. >>> >>> May be I just couldn't find the settings, let me know if you >>> manage to get a multi-project set up that makes sense. >>> >>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Tom Augspurger < >>> tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I'd prefer to join a discourse along with NumPy, Dask, and other >>>> PyData or NumFOCUS projects, rather than going out on our own. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:47 AM Marc Garcia < >>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I don't know much about discourse, but why do we want to >>>>> self-host it? Seems like Discourse does it for free for open source >>>>> projects: https://free.discourse.group/ And I don't think we >>>>> want another system to maintain. Am I missing something? >>>>> >>>>> I applied for https://pandas.discourse.group, so we can give it >>>>> a try. We should have it approved and working in couple of days. >>>>> >>>>> For what I saw, Discourse has one level of categories, so I >>>>> guess we want one per project, so we can have categories for "Users", >>>>> "Contributors", "Ecosystem"... or something similar. I guess if we have a >>>>> single Discourse for NumFOCUS, every project will be a category, and it'll >>>>> be difficult to group conversations. >>>>> >>>>> If anyone already has experience with Discourse and disagrees >>>>> with my guesses, please let me know. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:32 PM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Sounds great to me. Just let me know where everything goes. >>>>>> >>>>>> NumPy wants me to help host a discourse for them, maybe OVH >>>>>> would be a good place to do that as well, (although I would be more >>>>>> inclinded if it was pydata and we had pandas, scipy, and numpy on it). >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Andy >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Tom Augspurger < >>>>>> tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sounds good w.r.t crediting OVH on those pages. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For the ASV results at pandas.pydata.org/speed (which I now >>>>>>> notice is currently broken for pandas), the only thing on the webserver is a >>>>>>> cron job doing a `git pull` from >>>>>>> https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-collection, from within >>>>>>> `/usr/share/nginx`. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:18 AM Marc Garcia < >>>>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> An update on the new website infrastructure. We need to >>>>>>>> finish discussing the details, but OVH is happy to provide the hosting for >>>>>>>> the pandas infrastructure we need. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My initial idea is to credit them in the page with the rest >>>>>>>> of the sponsors in the new website: >>>>>>>> https://datapythonista.github.io/pandas-web/community/team.html#institutiona... and >>>>>>>> also in the top right corner of the runnable code widgets (see for example >>>>>>>> where Binder is credited here: https://spacy.io/). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What I'd like to ask is: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. For the production website and docs (static content only, >>>>>>>> for the traffic we need): >>>>>>>> https://us.ovhcloud.com/products/public-cloud/object-storage >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2. For our tools and processes, like the benchmarks, builds, >>>>>>>> CI stuff (temporary publish the docs for every PR,...): >>>>>>>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml (VPS SSD 3) >>>>>>>> 3. For BinderHub (runnable code in our docs, launch tutorials >>>>>>>> on Binder...): https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/kubernetes/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For the BinderHub, QuantStack offered help with the set up >>>>>>>> (which is great, because I don't know much about Binder myself, and I'm not >>>>>>>> sure if anyone else does or wants to take care of this). I don't think >>>>>>>> it'll be easy to estimate how big is the cluster we need beforehand, but I >>>>>>>> guess we can add things to Binder iteratively, and have more info as we >>>>>>>> grow. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> OVH gave us a 200 euros voucher to experiment with the >>>>>>>> different services. Let me know how all this sounds, and if there are no >>>>>>>> objections, I'll create an account and buy those services with the voucher, >>>>>>>> and I'll start to prototype and see how everything works. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:06 PM Marc Garcia < >>>>>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Somehow related to the work on the new website ( >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've been >>>>>>>>> discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy soon >>>>>>>>> (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable with >>>>>>>>> Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a Jupyter in >>>>>>>>> mybinder). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> While they are very happy with the idea of having this is >>>>>>>>> pandas, it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is >>>>>>>>> able to handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working >>>>>>>>> on it too (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the >>>>>>>>> examples). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on >>>>>>>>> whether they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas >>>>>>>>> (or may be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it >>>>>>>>> goes, but wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is >>>>>>>>> interested in participating in the discussions. Of course before any >>>>>>>>> decision is made I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server >>>>>>>>> for the website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev >>>>>>>>> docs (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will >>>>>>>>> generate them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these >>>>>>>>> two servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or >>>>>>>>> something like that). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or >>>>>>>>> whatever. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> Pandas-dev@python.org >>>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD >>>>>> President >>>>>> NumFOCUS >>>>>> andy@numfocus.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>> Pandas-dev@python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>> >> -- > Andy R. Terrel, PhD > President > NumFOCUS > andy@numfocus.org > _______________________________________________
Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
_______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
-- Andy R. Terrel, PhD President, NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
I think the value many have is for cross project issues, but maybe those are few and far between. On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 10:07 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
I personally don't see the value of having a common discourse for all the projects, where the top-level is a list of possibly 100 items, where pandas has few groups lost there, and not more structure than that, as opposed to have a discourse per project.
Single-login is the only advantage I can see, and this can also be achieved with separate groups for what I've seen.
Tom, Joris, I think you were the ones who preferred having a common discourse. Does it still sounds as the best option, given the limitations?
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 11:51 AM Andy Ray Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
Sorry I've been traveling.
I have https://pydata.discourse. <http://pydata.discourse.org>group set up. I can send out invites.
I guess as you have pointed out, we can set up categories for each project, e.g. dask-users, pandas-users, pandas-dev, but maybe not exactly what you want.
Happy to invite anyone to the discourse instance before we open it up to the wild
-- Andy
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 9:24 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
Andy, could you experiment on having multiple projects in a single discourse? I saw the PyData one was activated some time ago.
If it doesn't look feasible as I think, let me know so I'll move forward discussing what to have in the pandas one.
Cheers!
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:03 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
Discourse has private categories, we already have a private "Maintainers" one, that only admins can see and use. And there are other permissions levels that can be used. For example, we can have a private category for the memebers of the code of conduct committee... I just need to check if we can associate email addresses to those groups, so when someone emails to coc@pandas.io the messages are posted in that private group. But if we can set up that as we need, I think we should be able to replace all those and centralize everything in Discourse.
I'm skeptical on being able to set up a global Discourse for all the ecosystem, where things are easy to find, based on how Discourse works and the tests I did. I'd move forward with our own for now if nobody is able to set that up.
Andy, I got the pandas account approved in minutes. I see that we can have a custom domain, so you can use the pandas and see if we can manage to have multiple projects in a way we like, and if we do we just change the domain to discuss.pydata.org (or whatever). You're already an admin, feel free to experiment and change the set up as you need.
Maarten, not sure I understand your point. Not a fan of Discourse so far, but I think having the user and the devs discussions in a single place makes it easier to find the information, and I think Discourse interface also makes it easier to find compared to mailman, or google groups. Regardless of gitter (there are no important discussions or decision making there I think), would you prefer to stay with mailman and google groups over Discourse? Or what you think would be the ideal or best option?
Thanks!
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:39 AM Joris Van den Bossche < jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote:
What do other people think about starting to use discourse for pandas? (and about sharing it with other projects or having our own?)
--
On the existing lists: I don't think discourse would replace the core devs list (that is intentionally private). And IMO also not gitter (discourse is not a real-time chat).
Joris
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:58, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
For what I've seen I'd say that Discourse can be configured to interact with a category like a distribution list (subscribe and have an email address to send messages there). Not sure, but for the settings I've seen should be possible.
Personally I think it should replace all the existing lists: - pydata google group - pandas-dev (this) - core devs list
I'm also ok to get rid of gitter once we move to discourse (also ok to keep it if people find it useful, but I rarely use it).
I created an issue for this discussion some time ago: https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/issues/27903
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 1:50 PM Tom Augspurger < tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:57 AM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> > wrote: > >> Thanks Joris for splitting the thread, sorry if I hijacked the >> other one. >> >> For some discussion from numpy you can see here >> https://github.com/numpy/numpy.org/issues/28 >> >> Julia and Jupyter both run their own discourse but Dask, Numpy, >> Scipy have all told me “I don’t want to run it ourselves but be part of a >> larger one” >> >> I bet we can figure out how to organize it. >> >> I just put in an application to get pydata.discourse.org. >> >> — Andy >> >> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:52 AM Joris Van den Bossche < >> jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> (let's use a new thread for discourse, as it is a different >>> discussion from the website hosting I think, regardless whether OVH might >>> also host discourse) >>> >>> I am not familiar enough myself with discourse to know whether >>> multiple projects sharing a single discourse will become annoying. But >>> indeed, that sounds as it needs some kind of hierarchical category / >>> tagging. >>> >>> For pandas itself: I think I quite like the idea of having a >>> discourse, but *if* we do that, we should think about how that >>> fits with / replaces / adds to /... some of the other communication >>> channels (pandas-dev mailing list, pydata mailing list, github issues, ..). >>> >> > IMO, we can replace the pandas-dev & pydata mailing lists with it. > Possibly gitter as well. > > >> Joris >>> >>> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 13:18, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I'm fine with that conceptually, but I think Discourse will make >>>> things quite tricky to find things then. >>>> >>>> We already got our discourse approved, if you want to join it an >>>> experiment with the setting. But it's the first thing I tried, and after >>>> you join a category (project), everything feels like it's in the same place >>>> (even if subcategories and tags exist). And I think we need at least a >>>> clear separation between pandas/users pandas/contributors discussions. >>>> >>>> May be I just couldn't find the settings, let me know if you >>>> manage to get a multi-project set up that makes sense. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Tom Augspurger < >>>> tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'd prefer to join a discourse along with NumPy, Dask, and other >>>>> PyData or NumFOCUS projects, rather than going out on our own. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:47 AM Marc Garcia < >>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I don't know much about discourse, but why do we want to >>>>>> self-host it? Seems like Discourse does it for free for open source >>>>>> projects: https://free.discourse.group/ And I don't think we >>>>>> want another system to maintain. Am I missing something? >>>>>> >>>>>> I applied for https://pandas.discourse.group, so we can give >>>>>> it a try. We should have it approved and working in couple of days. >>>>>> >>>>>> For what I saw, Discourse has one level of categories, so I >>>>>> guess we want one per project, so we can have categories for "Users", >>>>>> "Contributors", "Ecosystem"... or something similar. I guess if we have a >>>>>> single Discourse for NumFOCUS, every project will be a category, and it'll >>>>>> be difficult to group conversations. >>>>>> >>>>>> If anyone already has experience with Discourse and disagrees >>>>>> with my guesses, please let me know. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:32 PM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sounds great to me. Just let me know where everything goes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> NumPy wants me to help host a discourse for them, maybe OVH >>>>>>> would be a good place to do that as well, (although I would be more >>>>>>> inclinded if it was pydata and we had pandas, scipy, and numpy on it). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- Andy >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Tom Augspurger < >>>>>>> tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sounds good w.r.t crediting OVH on those pages. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For the ASV results at pandas.pydata.org/speed (which I now >>>>>>>> notice is currently broken for pandas), the only thing on the webserver is a >>>>>>>> cron job doing a `git pull` from >>>>>>>> https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-collection, from within >>>>>>>> `/usr/share/nginx`. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:18 AM Marc Garcia < >>>>>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> An update on the new website infrastructure. We need to >>>>>>>>> finish discussing the details, but OVH is happy to provide the hosting for >>>>>>>>> the pandas infrastructure we need. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> My initial idea is to credit them in the page with the rest >>>>>>>>> of the sponsors in the new website: >>>>>>>>> https://datapythonista.github.io/pandas-web/community/team.html#institutiona... and >>>>>>>>> also in the top right corner of the runnable code widgets (see for example >>>>>>>>> where Binder is credited here: https://spacy.io/). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What I'd like to ask is: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. For the production website and docs (static content only, >>>>>>>>> for the traffic we need): >>>>>>>>> https://us.ovhcloud.com/products/public-cloud/object-storage >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2. For our tools and processes, like the benchmarks, builds, >>>>>>>>> CI stuff (temporary publish the docs for every PR,...): >>>>>>>>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml (VPS SSD 3) >>>>>>>>> 3. For BinderHub (runnable code in our docs, launch >>>>>>>>> tutorials on Binder...): >>>>>>>>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/kubernetes/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For the BinderHub, QuantStack offered help with the set up >>>>>>>>> (which is great, because I don't know much about Binder myself, and I'm not >>>>>>>>> sure if anyone else does or wants to take care of this). I don't think >>>>>>>>> it'll be easy to estimate how big is the cluster we need beforehand, but I >>>>>>>>> guess we can add things to Binder iteratively, and have more info as we >>>>>>>>> grow. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> OVH gave us a 200 euros voucher to experiment with the >>>>>>>>> different services. Let me know how all this sounds, and if there are no >>>>>>>>> objections, I'll create an account and buy those services with the voucher, >>>>>>>>> and I'll start to prototype and see how everything works. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:06 PM Marc Garcia < >>>>>>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Somehow related to the work on the new website ( >>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've >>>>>>>>>> been discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy >>>>>>>>>> soon (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable >>>>>>>>>> with Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a >>>>>>>>>> Jupyter in mybinder). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> While they are very happy with the idea of having this is >>>>>>>>>> pandas, it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is >>>>>>>>>> able to handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working >>>>>>>>>> on it too (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the >>>>>>>>>> examples). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on >>>>>>>>>> whether they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas >>>>>>>>>> (or may be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it >>>>>>>>>> goes, but wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is >>>>>>>>>> interested in participating in the discussions. Of course before any >>>>>>>>>> decision is made I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server >>>>>>>>>> for the website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev >>>>>>>>>> docs (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will >>>>>>>>>> generate them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these >>>>>>>>>> two servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or >>>>>>>>>> something like that). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or >>>>>>>>>> whatever. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev@python.org >>>>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD >>>>>>> President >>>>>>> NumFOCUS >>>>>>> andy@numfocus.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>>> Pandas-dev@python.org >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>>> >>> -- >> Andy R. Terrel, PhD >> President >> NumFOCUS >> andy@numfocus.org >> > _______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
_______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
-- Andy R. Terrel, PhD President, NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
_______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
-- Andy R. Terrel, PhD President, NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
That's a good point. I guess it doesn't make a big difference in terms of organization of the threads, as a discussion on something dask-pandas will still need to be in one of the categories (pandas-dev or dask-dev). But being able to tag people from other projects could be useful. But I still think that having separate discourse instances will make our lives easier. Feels like a huge mess to have all projects in the same instance with the navigation of discourse. On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 12:09 PM Andy Ray Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
I think the value many have is for cross project issues, but maybe those are few and far between.
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 10:07 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
I personally don't see the value of having a common discourse for all the projects, where the top-level is a list of possibly 100 items, where pandas has few groups lost there, and not more structure than that, as opposed to have a discourse per project.
Single-login is the only advantage I can see, and this can also be achieved with separate groups for what I've seen.
Tom, Joris, I think you were the ones who preferred having a common discourse. Does it still sounds as the best option, given the limitations?
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 11:51 AM Andy Ray Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
Sorry I've been traveling.
I have https://pydata.discourse. <http://pydata.discourse.org>group set up. I can send out invites.
I guess as you have pointed out, we can set up categories for each project, e.g. dask-users, pandas-users, pandas-dev, but maybe not exactly what you want.
Happy to invite anyone to the discourse instance before we open it up to the wild
-- Andy
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 9:24 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
Andy, could you experiment on having multiple projects in a single discourse? I saw the PyData one was activated some time ago.
If it doesn't look feasible as I think, let me know so I'll move forward discussing what to have in the pandas one.
Cheers!
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:03 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
Discourse has private categories, we already have a private "Maintainers" one, that only admins can see and use. And there are other permissions levels that can be used. For example, we can have a private category for the memebers of the code of conduct committee... I just need to check if we can associate email addresses to those groups, so when someone emails to coc@pandas.io the messages are posted in that private group. But if we can set up that as we need, I think we should be able to replace all those and centralize everything in Discourse.
I'm skeptical on being able to set up a global Discourse for all the ecosystem, where things are easy to find, based on how Discourse works and the tests I did. I'd move forward with our own for now if nobody is able to set that up.
Andy, I got the pandas account approved in minutes. I see that we can have a custom domain, so you can use the pandas and see if we can manage to have multiple projects in a way we like, and if we do we just change the domain to discuss.pydata.org (or whatever). You're already an admin, feel free to experiment and change the set up as you need.
Maarten, not sure I understand your point. Not a fan of Discourse so far, but I think having the user and the devs discussions in a single place makes it easier to find the information, and I think Discourse interface also makes it easier to find compared to mailman, or google groups. Regardless of gitter (there are no important discussions or decision making there I think), would you prefer to stay with mailman and google groups over Discourse? Or what you think would be the ideal or best option?
Thanks!
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:39 AM Joris Van den Bossche < jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote:
What do other people think about starting to use discourse for pandas? (and about sharing it with other projects or having our own?)
--
On the existing lists: I don't think discourse would replace the core devs list (that is intentionally private). And IMO also not gitter (discourse is not a real-time chat).
Joris
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:58, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
> For what I've seen I'd say that Discourse can be configured to > interact with a category like a distribution list (subscribe and have an > email address to send messages there). Not sure, but for the settings I've > seen should be possible. > > Personally I think it should replace all the existing lists: > - pydata google group > - pandas-dev (this) > - core devs list > > I'm also ok to get rid of gitter once we move to discourse (also ok > to keep it if people find it useful, but I rarely use it). > > I created an issue for this discussion some time ago: > https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/issues/27903 > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 1:50 PM Tom Augspurger < > tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:57 AM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Joris for splitting the thread, sorry if I hijacked the >>> other one. >>> >>> For some discussion from numpy you can see here >>> https://github.com/numpy/numpy.org/issues/28 >>> >>> Julia and Jupyter both run their own discourse but Dask, Numpy, >>> Scipy have all told me “I don’t want to run it ourselves but be part of a >>> larger one” >>> >>> I bet we can figure out how to organize it. >>> >>> I just put in an application to get pydata.discourse.org. >>> >>> — Andy >>> >>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:52 AM Joris Van den Bossche < >>> jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> (let's use a new thread for discourse, as it is a different >>>> discussion from the website hosting I think, regardless whether OVH might >>>> also host discourse) >>>> >>>> I am not familiar enough myself with discourse to know whether >>>> multiple projects sharing a single discourse will become annoying. But >>>> indeed, that sounds as it needs some kind of hierarchical category / >>>> tagging. >>>> >>>> For pandas itself: I think I quite like the idea of having a >>>> discourse, but *if* we do that, we should think about how that >>>> fits with / replaces / adds to /... some of the other communication >>>> channels (pandas-dev mailing list, pydata mailing list, github issues, ..). >>>> >>> >> IMO, we can replace the pandas-dev & pydata mailing lists with it. >> Possibly gitter as well. >> >> >>> Joris >>>> >>>> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 13:18, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm fine with that conceptually, but I think Discourse will make >>>>> things quite tricky to find things then. >>>>> >>>>> We already got our discourse approved, if you want to join it an >>>>> experiment with the setting. But it's the first thing I tried, and after >>>>> you join a category (project), everything feels like it's in the same place >>>>> (even if subcategories and tags exist). And I think we need at least a >>>>> clear separation between pandas/users pandas/contributors discussions. >>>>> >>>>> May be I just couldn't find the settings, let me know if you >>>>> manage to get a multi-project set up that makes sense. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Tom Augspurger < >>>>> tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'd prefer to join a discourse along with NumPy, Dask, and >>>>>> other PyData or NumFOCUS projects, rather than going out on our own. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:47 AM Marc Garcia < >>>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't know much about discourse, but why do we want to >>>>>>> self-host it? Seems like Discourse does it for free for open source >>>>>>> projects: https://free.discourse.group/ And I don't think we >>>>>>> want another system to maintain. Am I missing something? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I applied for https://pandas.discourse.group, so we can give >>>>>>> it a try. We should have it approved and working in couple of days. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For what I saw, Discourse has one level of categories, so I >>>>>>> guess we want one per project, so we can have categories for "Users", >>>>>>> "Contributors", "Ecosystem"... or something similar. I guess if we have a >>>>>>> single Discourse for NumFOCUS, every project will be a category, and it'll >>>>>>> be difficult to group conversations. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If anyone already has experience with Discourse and disagrees >>>>>>> with my guesses, please let me know. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:32 PM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sounds great to me. Just let me know where everything goes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> NumPy wants me to help host a discourse for them, maybe OVH >>>>>>>> would be a good place to do that as well, (although I would be more >>>>>>>> inclinded if it was pydata and we had pandas, scipy, and numpy on it). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- Andy >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Tom Augspurger < >>>>>>>> tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sounds good w.r.t crediting OVH on those pages. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For the ASV results at pandas.pydata.org/speed (which I now >>>>>>>>> notice is currently broken for pandas), the only thing on the webserver is a >>>>>>>>> cron job doing a `git pull` from >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-collection, from within >>>>>>>>> `/usr/share/nginx`. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:18 AM Marc Garcia < >>>>>>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> An update on the new website infrastructure. We need to >>>>>>>>>> finish discussing the details, but OVH is happy to provide the hosting for >>>>>>>>>> the pandas infrastructure we need. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My initial idea is to credit them in the page with the rest >>>>>>>>>> of the sponsors in the new website: >>>>>>>>>> https://datapythonista.github.io/pandas-web/community/team.html#institutiona... and >>>>>>>>>> also in the top right corner of the runnable code widgets (see for example >>>>>>>>>> where Binder is credited here: https://spacy.io/). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What I'd like to ask is: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. For the production website and docs (static content >>>>>>>>>> only, for the traffic we need): >>>>>>>>>> https://us.ovhcloud.com/products/public-cloud/object-storage >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2. For our tools and processes, like the benchmarks, >>>>>>>>>> builds, CI stuff (temporary publish the docs for every PR,...): >>>>>>>>>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml (VPS SSD 3) >>>>>>>>>> 3. For BinderHub (runnable code in our docs, launch >>>>>>>>>> tutorials on Binder...): >>>>>>>>>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/kubernetes/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> For the BinderHub, QuantStack offered help with the set up >>>>>>>>>> (which is great, because I don't know much about Binder myself, and I'm not >>>>>>>>>> sure if anyone else does or wants to take care of this). I don't think >>>>>>>>>> it'll be easy to estimate how big is the cluster we need beforehand, but I >>>>>>>>>> guess we can add things to Binder iteratively, and have more info as we >>>>>>>>>> grow. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> OVH gave us a 200 euros voucher to experiment with the >>>>>>>>>> different services. Let me know how all this sounds, and if there are no >>>>>>>>>> objections, I'll create an account and buy those services with the voucher, >>>>>>>>>> and I'll start to prototype and see how everything works. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:06 PM Marc Garcia < >>>>>>>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Somehow related to the work on the new website ( >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've >>>>>>>>>>> been discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy >>>>>>>>>>> soon (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable >>>>>>>>>>> with Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a >>>>>>>>>>> Jupyter in mybinder). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> While they are very happy with the idea of having this is >>>>>>>>>>> pandas, it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is >>>>>>>>>>> able to handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working >>>>>>>>>>> on it too (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the >>>>>>>>>>> examples). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on >>>>>>>>>>> whether they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas >>>>>>>>>>> (or may be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it >>>>>>>>>>> goes, but wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is >>>>>>>>>>> interested in participating in the discussions. Of course before any >>>>>>>>>>> decision is made I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server >>>>>>>>>>> for the website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev >>>>>>>>>>> docs (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will >>>>>>>>>>> generate them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these >>>>>>>>>>> two servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or >>>>>>>>>>> something like that). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved >>>>>>>>>>> or whatever. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev@python.org >>>>>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD >>>>>>>> President >>>>>>>> NumFOCUS >>>>>>>> andy@numfocus.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>>>> Pandas-dev@python.org >>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>>>> >>>> -- >>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD >>> President >>> NumFOCUS >>> andy@numfocus.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
_______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
-- Andy R. Terrel, PhD President, NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
_______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
-- Andy R. Terrel, PhD President, NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
Okay well I can go bug the heads of all the pydata projects, but the confusion comes when a user doesn't know where to post. Having lots of discourse sites, seems like it will lead to confusion and more work on maintainers to curate the community discussion. On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 10:21 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
That's a good point. I guess it doesn't make a big difference in terms of organization of the threads, as a discussion on something dask-pandas will still need to be in one of the categories (pandas-dev or dask-dev). But being able to tag people from other projects could be useful.
But I still think that having separate discourse instances will make our lives easier. Feels like a huge mess to have all projects in the same instance with the navigation of discourse.
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 12:09 PM Andy Ray Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
I think the value many have is for cross project issues, but maybe those are few and far between.
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 10:07 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
I personally don't see the value of having a common discourse for all the projects, where the top-level is a list of possibly 100 items, where pandas has few groups lost there, and not more structure than that, as opposed to have a discourse per project.
Single-login is the only advantage I can see, and this can also be achieved with separate groups for what I've seen.
Tom, Joris, I think you were the ones who preferred having a common discourse. Does it still sounds as the best option, given the limitations?
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 11:51 AM Andy Ray Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
Sorry I've been traveling.
I have https://pydata.discourse. <http://pydata.discourse.org>group set up. I can send out invites.
I guess as you have pointed out, we can set up categories for each project, e.g. dask-users, pandas-users, pandas-dev, but maybe not exactly what you want.
Happy to invite anyone to the discourse instance before we open it up to the wild
-- Andy
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 9:24 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
Andy, could you experiment on having multiple projects in a single discourse? I saw the PyData one was activated some time ago.
If it doesn't look feasible as I think, let me know so I'll move forward discussing what to have in the pandas one.
Cheers!
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:03 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
Discourse has private categories, we already have a private "Maintainers" one, that only admins can see and use. And there are other permissions levels that can be used. For example, we can have a private category for the memebers of the code of conduct committee... I just need to check if we can associate email addresses to those groups, so when someone emails to coc@pandas.io the messages are posted in that private group. But if we can set up that as we need, I think we should be able to replace all those and centralize everything in Discourse.
I'm skeptical on being able to set up a global Discourse for all the ecosystem, where things are easy to find, based on how Discourse works and the tests I did. I'd move forward with our own for now if nobody is able to set that up.
Andy, I got the pandas account approved in minutes. I see that we can have a custom domain, so you can use the pandas and see if we can manage to have multiple projects in a way we like, and if we do we just change the domain to discuss.pydata.org (or whatever). You're already an admin, feel free to experiment and change the set up as you need.
Maarten, not sure I understand your point. Not a fan of Discourse so far, but I think having the user and the devs discussions in a single place makes it easier to find the information, and I think Discourse interface also makes it easier to find compared to mailman, or google groups. Regardless of gitter (there are no important discussions or decision making there I think), would you prefer to stay with mailman and google groups over Discourse? Or what you think would be the ideal or best option?
Thanks!
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:39 AM Joris Van den Bossche < jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote:
> What do other people think about starting to use discourse for > pandas? > (and about sharing it with other projects or having our own?) > > -- > > On the existing lists: I don't think discourse would replace the > core devs list (that is intentionally private). And IMO also not gitter > (discourse is not a real-time chat). > > Joris > > On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:58, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> For what I've seen I'd say that Discourse can be configured to >> interact with a category like a distribution list (subscribe and have an >> email address to send messages there). Not sure, but for the settings I've >> seen should be possible. >> >> Personally I think it should replace all the existing lists: >> - pydata google group >> - pandas-dev (this) >> - core devs list >> >> I'm also ok to get rid of gitter once we move to discourse (also ok >> to keep it if people find it useful, but I rarely use it). >> >> I created an issue for this discussion some time ago: >> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/issues/27903 >> >> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 1:50 PM Tom Augspurger < >> tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:57 AM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Joris for splitting the thread, sorry if I hijacked the >>>> other one. >>>> >>>> For some discussion from numpy you can see here >>>> https://github.com/numpy/numpy.org/issues/28 >>>> >>>> Julia and Jupyter both run their own discourse but Dask, Numpy, >>>> Scipy have all told me “I don’t want to run it ourselves but be part of a >>>> larger one” >>>> >>>> I bet we can figure out how to organize it. >>>> >>>> I just put in an application to get pydata.discourse.org. >>>> >>>> — Andy >>>> >>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:52 AM Joris Van den Bossche < >>>> jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> (let's use a new thread for discourse, as it is a different >>>>> discussion from the website hosting I think, regardless whether OVH might >>>>> also host discourse) >>>>> >>>>> I am not familiar enough myself with discourse to know whether >>>>> multiple projects sharing a single discourse will become annoying. But >>>>> indeed, that sounds as it needs some kind of hierarchical category / >>>>> tagging. >>>>> >>>>> For pandas itself: I think I quite like the idea of having a >>>>> discourse, but *if* we do that, we should think about how that >>>>> fits with / replaces / adds to /... some of the other communication >>>>> channels (pandas-dev mailing list, pydata mailing list, github issues, ..). >>>>> >>>> >>> IMO, we can replace the pandas-dev & pydata mailing lists with it. >>> Possibly gitter as well. >>> >>> >>>> Joris >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 13:18, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'm fine with that conceptually, but I think Discourse will >>>>>> make things quite tricky to find things then. >>>>>> >>>>>> We already got our discourse approved, if you want to join it >>>>>> an experiment with the setting. But it's the first thing I tried, and after >>>>>> you join a category (project), everything feels like it's in the same place >>>>>> (even if subcategories and tags exist). And I think we need at least a >>>>>> clear separation between pandas/users pandas/contributors discussions. >>>>>> >>>>>> May be I just couldn't find the settings, let me know if you >>>>>> manage to get a multi-project set up that makes sense. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Tom Augspurger < >>>>>> tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd prefer to join a discourse along with NumPy, Dask, and >>>>>>> other PyData or NumFOCUS projects, rather than going out on our own. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:47 AM Marc Garcia < >>>>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't know much about discourse, but why do we want to >>>>>>>> self-host it? Seems like Discourse does it for free for open source >>>>>>>> projects: https://free.discourse.group/ And I don't think we >>>>>>>> want another system to maintain. Am I missing something? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I applied for https://pandas.discourse.group, so we can give >>>>>>>> it a try. We should have it approved and working in couple of days. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For what I saw, Discourse has one level of categories, so I >>>>>>>> guess we want one per project, so we can have categories for "Users", >>>>>>>> "Contributors", "Ecosystem"... or something similar. I guess if we have a >>>>>>>> single Discourse for NumFOCUS, every project will be a category, and it'll >>>>>>>> be difficult to group conversations. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If anyone already has experience with Discourse and disagrees >>>>>>>> with my guesses, please let me know. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:32 PM Andy Terrel < >>>>>>>> andy@numfocus.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sounds great to me. Just let me know where everything goes. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> NumPy wants me to help host a discourse for them, maybe OVH >>>>>>>>> would be a good place to do that as well, (although I would be more >>>>>>>>> inclinded if it was pydata and we had pandas, scipy, and numpy on it). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- Andy >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Tom Augspurger < >>>>>>>>> tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sounds good w.r.t crediting OVH on those pages. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> For the ASV results at pandas.pydata.org/speed (which I >>>>>>>>>> now notice is currently broken for pandas), the only thing on the webserver >>>>>>>>>> is a >>>>>>>>>> cron job doing a `git pull` from >>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-collection, from within >>>>>>>>>> `/usr/share/nginx`. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:18 AM Marc Garcia < >>>>>>>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> An update on the new website infrastructure. We need to >>>>>>>>>>> finish discussing the details, but OVH is happy to provide the hosting for >>>>>>>>>>> the pandas infrastructure we need. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> My initial idea is to credit them in the page with the >>>>>>>>>>> rest of the sponsors in the new website: >>>>>>>>>>> https://datapythonista.github.io/pandas-web/community/team.html#institutiona... and >>>>>>>>>>> also in the top right corner of the runnable code widgets (see for example >>>>>>>>>>> where Binder is credited here: https://spacy.io/). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What I'd like to ask is: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 1. For the production website and docs (static content >>>>>>>>>>> only, for the traffic we need): >>>>>>>>>>> https://us.ovhcloud.com/products/public-cloud/object-storage >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 2. For our tools and processes, like the benchmarks, >>>>>>>>>>> builds, CI stuff (temporary publish the docs for every PR,...): >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml (VPS SSD 3) >>>>>>>>>>> 3. For BinderHub (runnable code in our docs, launch >>>>>>>>>>> tutorials on Binder...): >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/kubernetes/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> For the BinderHub, QuantStack offered help with the set up >>>>>>>>>>> (which is great, because I don't know much about Binder myself, and I'm not >>>>>>>>>>> sure if anyone else does or wants to take care of this). I don't think >>>>>>>>>>> it'll be easy to estimate how big is the cluster we need beforehand, but I >>>>>>>>>>> guess we can add things to Binder iteratively, and have more info as we >>>>>>>>>>> grow. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> OVH gave us a 200 euros voucher to experiment with the >>>>>>>>>>> different services. Let me know how all this sounds, and if there are no >>>>>>>>>>> objections, I'll create an account and buy those services with the voucher, >>>>>>>>>>> and I'll start to prototype and see how everything works. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:06 PM Marc Garcia < >>>>>>>>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Somehow related to the work on the new website ( >>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've >>>>>>>>>>>> been discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy >>>>>>>>>>>> soon (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable >>>>>>>>>>>> with Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a >>>>>>>>>>>> Jupyter in mybinder). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> While they are very happy with the idea of having this is >>>>>>>>>>>> pandas, it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is >>>>>>>>>>>> able to handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working >>>>>>>>>>>> on it too (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the >>>>>>>>>>>> examples). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) >>>>>>>>>>>> on whether they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to >>>>>>>>>>>> pandas (or may be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how >>>>>>>>>>>> it goes, but wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone >>>>>>>>>>>> is interested in participating in the discussions. Of course before any >>>>>>>>>>>> decision is made I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server >>>>>>>>>>>> for the website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev >>>>>>>>>>>> docs (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will >>>>>>>>>>>> generate them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these >>>>>>>>>>>> two servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or >>>>>>>>>>>> something like that). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved >>>>>>>>>>>> or whatever. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev@python.org >>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD >>>>>>>>> President >>>>>>>>> NumFOCUS >>>>>>>>> andy@numfocus.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>>>>> Pandas-dev@python.org >>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD >>>> President >>>> NumFOCUS >>>> andy@numfocus.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ > Pandas-dev mailing list > Pandas-dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev > _______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
-- Andy R. Terrel, PhD President, NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
_______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
-- Andy R. Terrel, PhD President, NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
_______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
-- Andy R. Terrel, PhD President, NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
We had a discussion in the NumFOCUS summit about Discourse. People with more experience also considered that is not feasible to use Discourse for all projects in a reasonable and organized way. So, if nobody objects we'll move forward with the pandas Discourse. I think a PyData / NumFOCUS one for communication among projects can make sense. If anybody have ideas on categories we should have, what to set up to communicate among projects... They are more than welcome. Otherwise we'll keep adding figure out what works best as we use Discourse. If you want to start signing up in our Discourse, pandas.discourse.group, I think we can start using it for discussions, and delete this list once we're confident. There are already few people in the core team that is in Discourse and got admin rights. Please let us know if you sign up, so we can grant you admin rights too. Cheers! On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 12:45 PM Andy Ray Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
Okay well I can go bug the heads of all the pydata projects, but the confusion comes when a user doesn't know where to post. Having lots of discourse sites, seems like it will lead to confusion and more work on maintainers to curate the community discussion.
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 10:21 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
That's a good point. I guess it doesn't make a big difference in terms of organization of the threads, as a discussion on something dask-pandas will still need to be in one of the categories (pandas-dev or dask-dev). But being able to tag people from other projects could be useful.
But I still think that having separate discourse instances will make our lives easier. Feels like a huge mess to have all projects in the same instance with the navigation of discourse.
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 12:09 PM Andy Ray Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
I think the value many have is for cross project issues, but maybe those are few and far between.
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 10:07 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
I personally don't see the value of having a common discourse for all the projects, where the top-level is a list of possibly 100 items, where pandas has few groups lost there, and not more structure than that, as opposed to have a discourse per project.
Single-login is the only advantage I can see, and this can also be achieved with separate groups for what I've seen.
Tom, Joris, I think you were the ones who preferred having a common discourse. Does it still sounds as the best option, given the limitations?
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 11:51 AM Andy Ray Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
Sorry I've been traveling.
I have https://pydata.discourse. <http://pydata.discourse.org>group set up. I can send out invites.
I guess as you have pointed out, we can set up categories for each project, e.g. dask-users, pandas-users, pandas-dev, but maybe not exactly what you want.
Happy to invite anyone to the discourse instance before we open it up to the wild
-- Andy
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 9:24 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
Andy, could you experiment on having multiple projects in a single discourse? I saw the PyData one was activated some time ago.
If it doesn't look feasible as I think, let me know so I'll move forward discussing what to have in the pandas one.
Cheers!
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:03 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Discourse has private categories, we already have a private > "Maintainers" one, that only admins can see and use. And there are other > permissions levels that can be used. For example, we can have a private > category for the memebers of the code of conduct committee... I just need > to check if we can associate email addresses to those groups, so when > someone emails to coc@pandas.io the messages are posted in that > private group. But if we can set up that as we need, I think we should be > able to replace all those and centralize everything in Discourse. > > I'm skeptical on being able to set up a global Discourse for all the > ecosystem, where things are easy to find, based on how Discourse works and > the tests I did. I'd move forward with our own for now if nobody is able to > set that up. > > Andy, I got the pandas account approved in minutes. I see that we > can have a custom domain, so you can use the pandas and see if we can > manage to have multiple projects in a way we like, and if we do we just > change the domain to discuss.pydata.org (or whatever). You're > already an admin, feel free to experiment and change the set up as you need. > > Maarten, not sure I understand your point. Not a fan of Discourse so > far, but I think having the user and the devs discussions in a single place > makes it easier to find the information, and I think Discourse interface > also makes it easier to find compared to mailman, or google groups. > Regardless of gitter (there are no important discussions or decision making > there I think), would you prefer to stay with mailman and google groups > over Discourse? Or what you think would be the ideal or best option? > > Thanks! > > On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:39 AM Joris Van den Bossche < > jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote: > >> What do other people think about starting to use discourse for >> pandas? >> (and about sharing it with other projects or having our own?) >> >> -- >> >> On the existing lists: I don't think discourse would replace the >> core devs list (that is intentionally private). And IMO also not gitter >> (discourse is not a real-time chat). >> >> Joris >> >> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:58, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> For what I've seen I'd say that Discourse can be configured to >>> interact with a category like a distribution list (subscribe and have an >>> email address to send messages there). Not sure, but for the settings I've >>> seen should be possible. >>> >>> Personally I think it should replace all the existing lists: >>> - pydata google group >>> - pandas-dev (this) >>> - core devs list >>> >>> I'm also ok to get rid of gitter once we move to discourse (also >>> ok to keep it if people find it useful, but I rarely use it). >>> >>> I created an issue for this discussion some time ago: >>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/issues/27903 >>> >>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 1:50 PM Tom Augspurger < >>> tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:57 AM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks Joris for splitting the thread, sorry if I hijacked the >>>>> other one. >>>>> >>>>> For some discussion from numpy you can see here >>>>> https://github.com/numpy/numpy.org/issues/28 >>>>> >>>>> Julia and Jupyter both run their own discourse but Dask, Numpy, >>>>> Scipy have all told me “I don’t want to run it ourselves but be part of a >>>>> larger one” >>>>> >>>>> I bet we can figure out how to organize it. >>>>> >>>>> I just put in an application to get pydata.discourse.org. >>>>> >>>>> — Andy >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:52 AM Joris Van den Bossche < >>>>> jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> (let's use a new thread for discourse, as it is a different >>>>>> discussion from the website hosting I think, regardless whether OVH might >>>>>> also host discourse) >>>>>> >>>>>> I am not familiar enough myself with discourse to know whether >>>>>> multiple projects sharing a single discourse will become annoying. But >>>>>> indeed, that sounds as it needs some kind of hierarchical category / >>>>>> tagging. >>>>>> >>>>>> For pandas itself: I think I quite like the idea of having a >>>>>> discourse, but *if* we do that, we should think about how that >>>>>> fits with / replaces / adds to /... some of the other communication >>>>>> channels (pandas-dev mailing list, pydata mailing list, github issues, ..). >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> IMO, we can replace the pandas-dev & pydata mailing lists with >>>> it. Possibly gitter as well. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Joris >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 13:18, Marc Garcia < >>>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm fine with that conceptually, but I think Discourse will >>>>>>> make things quite tricky to find things then. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We already got our discourse approved, if you want to join it >>>>>>> an experiment with the setting. But it's the first thing I tried, and after >>>>>>> you join a category (project), everything feels like it's in the same place >>>>>>> (even if subcategories and tags exist). And I think we need at least a >>>>>>> clear separation between pandas/users pandas/contributors discussions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> May be I just couldn't find the settings, let me know if you >>>>>>> manage to get a multi-project set up that makes sense. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Tom Augspurger < >>>>>>> tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'd prefer to join a discourse along with NumPy, Dask, and >>>>>>>> other PyData or NumFOCUS projects, rather than going out on our own. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:47 AM Marc Garcia < >>>>>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't know much about discourse, but why do we want to >>>>>>>>> self-host it? Seems like Discourse does it for free for open source >>>>>>>>> projects: https://free.discourse.group/ And I don't think >>>>>>>>> we want another system to maintain. Am I missing something? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I applied for https://pandas.discourse.group, so we can >>>>>>>>> give it a try. We should have it approved and working in couple of days. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For what I saw, Discourse has one level of categories, so I >>>>>>>>> guess we want one per project, so we can have categories for "Users", >>>>>>>>> "Contributors", "Ecosystem"... or something similar. I guess if we have a >>>>>>>>> single Discourse for NumFOCUS, every project will be a category, and it'll >>>>>>>>> be difficult to group conversations. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If anyone already has experience with Discourse and >>>>>>>>> disagrees with my guesses, please let me know. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:32 PM Andy Terrel < >>>>>>>>> andy@numfocus.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sounds great to me. Just let me know where everything goes. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> NumPy wants me to help host a discourse for them, maybe OVH >>>>>>>>>> would be a good place to do that as well, (although I would be more >>>>>>>>>> inclinded if it was pydata and we had pandas, scipy, and numpy on it). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- Andy >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Tom Augspurger < >>>>>>>>>> tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sounds good w.r.t crediting OVH on those pages. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> For the ASV results at pandas.pydata.org/speed (which I >>>>>>>>>>> now notice is currently broken for pandas), the only thing on the webserver >>>>>>>>>>> is a >>>>>>>>>>> cron job doing a `git pull` from >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-collection, from within >>>>>>>>>>> `/usr/share/nginx`. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:18 AM Marc Garcia < >>>>>>>>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> An update on the new website infrastructure. We need to >>>>>>>>>>>> finish discussing the details, but OVH is happy to provide the hosting for >>>>>>>>>>>> the pandas infrastructure we need. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> My initial idea is to credit them in the page with the >>>>>>>>>>>> rest of the sponsors in the new website: >>>>>>>>>>>> https://datapythonista.github.io/pandas-web/community/team.html#institutiona... and >>>>>>>>>>>> also in the top right corner of the runnable code widgets (see for example >>>>>>>>>>>> where Binder is credited here: https://spacy.io/). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What I'd like to ask is: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 1. For the production website and docs (static content >>>>>>>>>>>> only, for the traffic we need): >>>>>>>>>>>> https://us.ovhcloud.com/products/public-cloud/object-storage >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 2. For our tools and processes, like the benchmarks, >>>>>>>>>>>> builds, CI stuff (temporary publish the docs for every PR,...): >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml (VPS SSD 3) >>>>>>>>>>>> 3. For BinderHub (runnable code in our docs, launch >>>>>>>>>>>> tutorials on Binder...): >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/kubernetes/ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> For the BinderHub, QuantStack offered help with the set >>>>>>>>>>>> up (which is great, because I don't know much about Binder myself, and I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> not sure if anyone else does or wants to take care of this). I don't think >>>>>>>>>>>> it'll be easy to estimate how big is the cluster we need beforehand, but I >>>>>>>>>>>> guess we can add things to Binder iteratively, and have more info as we >>>>>>>>>>>> grow. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> OVH gave us a 200 euros voucher to experiment with the >>>>>>>>>>>> different services. Let me know how all this sounds, and if there are no >>>>>>>>>>>> objections, I'll create an account and buy those services with the voucher, >>>>>>>>>>>> and I'll start to prototype and see how everything works. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:06 PM Marc Garcia < >>>>>>>>>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Somehow related to the work on the new website ( >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've >>>>>>>>>>>>> been discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy >>>>>>>>>>>>> soon (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable >>>>>>>>>>>>> with Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jupyter in mybinder). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> While they are very happy with the idea of having this >>>>>>>>>>>>> is pandas, it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is >>>>>>>>>>>>> able to handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working >>>>>>>>>>>>> on it too (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the >>>>>>>>>>>>> examples). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) >>>>>>>>>>>>> on whether they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to >>>>>>>>>>>>> pandas (or may be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how >>>>>>>>>>>>> it goes, but wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone >>>>>>>>>>>>> is interested in participating in the discussions. Of course before any >>>>>>>>>>>>> decision is made I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a >>>>>>>>>>>>> server for the website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the >>>>>>>>>>>>> dev docs (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will >>>>>>>>>>>>> generate them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these >>>>>>>>>>>>> two servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or >>>>>>>>>>>>> something like that). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved >>>>>>>>>>>>> or whatever. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev@python.org >>>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD >>>>>>>>>> President >>>>>>>>>> NumFOCUS >>>>>>>>>> andy@numfocus.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>>>>>> Pandas-dev@python.org >>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD >>>>> President >>>>> NumFOCUS >>>>> andy@numfocus.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> Pandas-dev mailing list >> Pandas-dev@python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >> > _______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
-- Andy R. Terrel, PhD President, NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
_______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
-- Andy R. Terrel, PhD President, NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
_______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
-- Andy R. Terrel, PhD President, NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
I don't have a strong opinion here. Happy to go with what works best. On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 12:07 PM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
I personally don't see the value of having a common discourse for all the projects, where the top-level is a list of possibly 100 items, where pandas has few groups lost there, and not more structure than that, as opposed to have a discourse per project.
Single-login is the only advantage I can see, and this can also be achieved with separate groups for what I've seen.
Tom, Joris, I think you were the ones who preferred having a common discourse. Does it still sounds as the best option, given the limitations?
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 11:51 AM Andy Ray Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> wrote:
Sorry I've been traveling.
I have https://pydata.discourse. <http://pydata.discourse.org>group set up. I can send out invites.
I guess as you have pointed out, we can set up categories for each project, e.g. dask-users, pandas-users, pandas-dev, but maybe not exactly what you want.
Happy to invite anyone to the discourse instance before we open it up to the wild
-- Andy
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 9:24 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
Andy, could you experiment on having multiple projects in a single discourse? I saw the PyData one was activated some time ago.
If it doesn't look feasible as I think, let me know so I'll move forward discussing what to have in the pandas one.
Cheers!
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:03 AM Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
Discourse has private categories, we already have a private "Maintainers" one, that only admins can see and use. And there are other permissions levels that can be used. For example, we can have a private category for the memebers of the code of conduct committee... I just need to check if we can associate email addresses to those groups, so when someone emails to coc@pandas.io the messages are posted in that private group. But if we can set up that as we need, I think we should be able to replace all those and centralize everything in Discourse.
I'm skeptical on being able to set up a global Discourse for all the ecosystem, where things are easy to find, based on how Discourse works and the tests I did. I'd move forward with our own for now if nobody is able to set that up.
Andy, I got the pandas account approved in minutes. I see that we can have a custom domain, so you can use the pandas and see if we can manage to have multiple projects in a way we like, and if we do we just change the domain to discuss.pydata.org (or whatever). You're already an admin, feel free to experiment and change the set up as you need.
Maarten, not sure I understand your point. Not a fan of Discourse so far, but I think having the user and the devs discussions in a single place makes it easier to find the information, and I think Discourse interface also makes it easier to find compared to mailman, or google groups. Regardless of gitter (there are no important discussions or decision making there I think), would you prefer to stay with mailman and google groups over Discourse? Or what you think would be the ideal or best option?
Thanks!
On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:39 AM Joris Van den Bossche < jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote:
What do other people think about starting to use discourse for pandas? (and about sharing it with other projects or having our own?)
--
On the existing lists: I don't think discourse would replace the core devs list (that is intentionally private). And IMO also not gitter (discourse is not a real-time chat).
Joris
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:58, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote:
For what I've seen I'd say that Discourse can be configured to interact with a category like a distribution list (subscribe and have an email address to send messages there). Not sure, but for the settings I've seen should be possible.
Personally I think it should replace all the existing lists: - pydata google group - pandas-dev (this) - core devs list
I'm also ok to get rid of gitter once we move to discourse (also ok to keep it if people find it useful, but I rarely use it).
I created an issue for this discussion some time ago: https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/issues/27903
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 1:50 PM Tom Augspurger < tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:57 AM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> > wrote: > >> Thanks Joris for splitting the thread, sorry if I hijacked the >> other one. >> >> For some discussion from numpy you can see here >> https://github.com/numpy/numpy.org/issues/28 >> >> Julia and Jupyter both run their own discourse but Dask, Numpy, >> Scipy have all told me “I don’t want to run it ourselves but be part of a >> larger one” >> >> I bet we can figure out how to organize it. >> >> I just put in an application to get pydata.discourse.org. >> >> — Andy >> >> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:52 AM Joris Van den Bossche < >> jorisvandenbossche@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> (let's use a new thread for discourse, as it is a different >>> discussion from the website hosting I think, regardless whether OVH might >>> also host discourse) >>> >>> I am not familiar enough myself with discourse to know whether >>> multiple projects sharing a single discourse will become annoying. But >>> indeed, that sounds as it needs some kind of hierarchical category / >>> tagging. >>> >>> For pandas itself: I think I quite like the idea of having a >>> discourse, but *if* we do that, we should think about how that >>> fits with / replaces / adds to /... some of the other communication >>> channels (pandas-dev mailing list, pydata mailing list, github issues, ..). >>> >> > IMO, we can replace the pandas-dev & pydata mailing lists with it. > Possibly gitter as well. > > >> Joris >>> >>> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 13:18, Marc Garcia <garcia.marc@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I'm fine with that conceptually, but I think Discourse will make >>>> things quite tricky to find things then. >>>> >>>> We already got our discourse approved, if you want to join it an >>>> experiment with the setting. But it's the first thing I tried, and after >>>> you join a category (project), everything feels like it's in the same place >>>> (even if subcategories and tags exist). And I think we need at least a >>>> clear separation between pandas/users pandas/contributors discussions. >>>> >>>> May be I just couldn't find the settings, let me know if you >>>> manage to get a multi-project set up that makes sense. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 12:07 PM Tom Augspurger < >>>> tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'd prefer to join a discourse along with NumPy, Dask, and other >>>>> PyData or NumFOCUS projects, rather than going out on our own. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:47 AM Marc Garcia < >>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I don't know much about discourse, but why do we want to >>>>>> self-host it? Seems like Discourse does it for free for open source >>>>>> projects: https://free.discourse.group/ And I don't think we >>>>>> want another system to maintain. Am I missing something? >>>>>> >>>>>> I applied for https://pandas.discourse.group, so we can give >>>>>> it a try. We should have it approved and working in couple of days. >>>>>> >>>>>> For what I saw, Discourse has one level of categories, so I >>>>>> guess we want one per project, so we can have categories for "Users", >>>>>> "Contributors", "Ecosystem"... or something similar. I guess if we have a >>>>>> single Discourse for NumFOCUS, every project will be a category, and it'll >>>>>> be difficult to group conversations. >>>>>> >>>>>> If anyone already has experience with Discourse and disagrees >>>>>> with my guesses, please let me know. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:32 PM Andy Terrel <andy@numfocus.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sounds great to me. Just let me know where everything goes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> NumPy wants me to help host a discourse for them, maybe OVH >>>>>>> would be a good place to do that as well, (although I would be more >>>>>>> inclinded if it was pydata and we had pandas, scipy, and numpy on it). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- Andy >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Tom Augspurger < >>>>>>> tom.augspurger88@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sounds good w.r.t crediting OVH on those pages. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For the ASV results at pandas.pydata.org/speed (which I now >>>>>>>> notice is currently broken for pandas), the only thing on the webserver is a >>>>>>>> cron job doing a `git pull` from >>>>>>>> https://github.com/asv-runner/asv-collection, from within >>>>>>>> `/usr/share/nginx`. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:18 AM Marc Garcia < >>>>>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> An update on the new website infrastructure. We need to >>>>>>>>> finish discussing the details, but OVH is happy to provide the hosting for >>>>>>>>> the pandas infrastructure we need. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> My initial idea is to credit them in the page with the rest >>>>>>>>> of the sponsors in the new website: >>>>>>>>> https://datapythonista.github.io/pandas-web/community/team.html#institutiona... and >>>>>>>>> also in the top right corner of the runnable code widgets (see for example >>>>>>>>> where Binder is credited here: https://spacy.io/). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What I'd like to ask is: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. For the production website and docs (static content only, >>>>>>>>> for the traffic we need): >>>>>>>>> https://us.ovhcloud.com/products/public-cloud/object-storage >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2. For our tools and processes, like the benchmarks, builds, >>>>>>>>> CI stuff (temporary publish the docs for every PR,...): >>>>>>>>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-ssd.xml (VPS SSD 3) >>>>>>>>> 3. For BinderHub (runnable code in our docs, launch >>>>>>>>> tutorials on Binder...): >>>>>>>>> https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/kubernetes/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For the BinderHub, QuantStack offered help with the set up >>>>>>>>> (which is great, because I don't know much about Binder myself, and I'm not >>>>>>>>> sure if anyone else does or wants to take care of this). I don't think >>>>>>>>> it'll be easy to estimate how big is the cluster we need beforehand, but I >>>>>>>>> guess we can add things to Binder iteratively, and have more info as we >>>>>>>>> grow. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> OVH gave us a 200 euros voucher to experiment with the >>>>>>>>> different services. Let me know how all this sounds, and if there are no >>>>>>>>> objections, I'll create an account and buy those services with the voucher, >>>>>>>>> and I'll start to prototype and see how everything works. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:06 PM Marc Garcia < >>>>>>>>> garcia.marc@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Somehow related to the work on the new website ( >>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/pandas-dev/pandas/pull/28014), I've >>>>>>>>>> been discussing with the Binder team, and looks like should be quite easy >>>>>>>>>> soon (with a Sphinx extension) to make all the documentation pages runnable >>>>>>>>>> with Binder, directly from the website (without opening the page as a >>>>>>>>>> Jupyter in mybinder). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> While they are very happy with the idea of having this is >>>>>>>>>> pandas, it's uncertain if the current infrastructure Binder has got, is >>>>>>>>>> able to handle all the traffic we would send. And scikit-learn is working >>>>>>>>>> on it too (today they added to the dev docs a link to mybinder to run the >>>>>>>>>> examples). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm discussing with OVH (their infrastructure provider) on >>>>>>>>>> whether they'd be happy to provide a dedicated BinderHub specific to pandas >>>>>>>>>> (or may be we can have one for all NumFOCUS projects). We'll see how it >>>>>>>>>> goes, but wanted to let you know, so you're updated, and in case anyone is >>>>>>>>>> interested in participating in the discussions. Of course before any >>>>>>>>>> decision is made I'll open a discussion here or on GitHub. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As part of the discussion I'm also trying to get a server >>>>>>>>>> for the website, and one for development stuff. Specfically for the dev >>>>>>>>>> docs (including rendered docs of every PR) and the GitHub app that will >>>>>>>>>> generate them. I guess it should be very easy to find a sponsor for these >>>>>>>>>> two servers (in exchange of a small note in the footer of the website, or >>>>>>>>>> something like that). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Let me know if you have any comment, want to be involved or >>>>>>>>>> whatever. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> Pandas-dev@python.org >>>>>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Andy R. Terrel, PhD >>>>>>> President >>>>>>> NumFOCUS >>>>>>> andy@numfocus.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pandas-dev mailing list >>>> Pandas-dev@python.org >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev >>>> >>> -- >> Andy R. Terrel, PhD >> President >> NumFOCUS >> andy@numfocus.org >> > _______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
_______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
-- Andy R. Terrel, PhD President, NumFOCUS andy@numfocus.org
_______________________________________________ Pandas-dev mailing list Pandas-dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pandas-dev
participants (6)
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Andy Ray Terrel -
Andy Terrel
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Joris Van den Bossche -
Maarten Breddels -
Marc Garcia -
Tom Augspurger